PT TPM underrated

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by matt0812, Jul 16, 2010.

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  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Very, very well put.

    I like the addition of Qui-Gon. He became one of my favorite characters. He also shows how the "square" Jedi had become too complacent and dogmatic, too focused on the Unifying Force and not focused enough on the Living Force. We see that mistake rectified in the OT, with Yoda and Obi-Wan being much more focused on the Living Force than they were in the PT.

    I would have been upset if the "squares" had turned out to be right. The overly conformist "one-size-fits-all" training chaps against everything I know about teaching, and people in general.

    On Obi-Wan: Loved the man in AOTC and ROTS; he annoyed me in TPM. I won't go so far as to say I disliked him, I didn't, but I did get irritated with him.
  2. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    That is actually a really good point about a more conservative Jedi failing Anakin being beneficial.
    I love Qui-Gon, but I think his death was kind of necessary for the plot to work on that level.
  3. strawberryfields Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Watched it today. It's not awful but could have been a lot better. 6/10 is a fair reflection. It's still a fun watch and that is true for all the episodes of the Star Wars saga. One thing Lucas has captured in the prequels is the feel of Star Wars and I am glad it didn't just turn out like 'Transformers' or whatever.

    The pod racing scene was good (Used to hate it?), Liam Neeson and Ewan play their roles well, Sidious is at his early best, Maul's a good cameo villain and the general feel is alright. It could hae been a lot better- just with a bit less Jar Jar, a bit more of Maul, cut some of the droid talk.
  4. Separatist101 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2010
    star 3
    I think it is i mean it think its not given enough credit.

    Ok i know one of the main reasons why people dont like the film is because of Jar-Jar, but there are lots of Gungans beating the sugar out of battle droids in the Battle of Grassy Plains and a well good space battle theres also a awesome pod race etc
  5. strawberryfields Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2011
    The space battle is not good. A kid accidently destroying the ship pretty much sums up how bad the plot resolution is.
  6. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    The PT dogfights are to the OT duels as the PT duels are to the OT dogfights. Fine with me.
  7. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    No, it doesn't.
  8. hanshotfirst87 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Personally, TPM was my favorite prequel. I felt it was the most fun to watch like older Lucasfilm movies (including Indy of course). I also seen it when I was twelve so that probably helped lol.
  9. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    the space battles seem purposefully toned down in the PT. I think it makes the OT ones stand out more.

  10. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Yes. Note, in all three films, you never actually see a traditional dogfight-- that is, you never see both the good guys shooting at bad guys, and bad guys shooting at good guys, at least not in primary focus. There's plenty of background aerial combat in all three films, but the main stuff is all rather one-sided. Anakin doesn't shoot at the droid fighters; Obi-Wan doesn't shoot at Jango; the Jedi don't shoot down anything on the way to the Invisible Hand (ironically, the closest we get here is when Anakin "fires" on Obi-Wan). It's more about piloting skills, in these films, than actual combat.
  11. strawberryfields Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Basically George doesn't know what to do to resolve the Gungan battle and the space stuff.

    "Hey- if Anakin's ship can fall into the control ship and he presses a few wrong buttons again, he could blow up the ship and the droids will be deactivated! Hey, it even mirrors Luke in episode four!!"
  12. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Oh, he does know. That's explained in the movie itself. The fighters must destroy the Control Ship in order to deactivate the droid army, thus saving both the Gungans and the Queen. You make not like that Anakin destroys the ship by accident (neither do I), but that doesn't mean the movie has a bad plot/resolution nor that George doesn't know what to do.
  13. strawberryfields Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Think you mis-read, that is what he did do because he got to a point where he couldn't think of something. The two link together with the most cheesy resolution in the whole saga.
  14. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    But at least it ties in to ROTJ, with the "primitives" in a land battle connected to the battle in space.
    Personally I agree that it shouldn't have been an accidental victory, but I don't think this is a reflection of not knowing how to resolve it. It's supposed to be a lighter ending before we go into the dark times.
    Also, we are likely meant to think Anakin was sent there by will of the force (IMO).
  15. strawberryfields Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2011
    You can do lighter endings, I just thought it was a very poor one.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Nothing is real... ( and nothing to get hung about )
  17. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I'm sorry, but there are just certain scenes which will not get better with age.

    The funny thing is, I think the storyline is good in a sense, but it's just that the acting in certain parts of the movie really hurt the film. Is it possible that Lucas has additional footage of these scenes that would help in re-editing some of the bad dialogue and acting? Something needs to be done with the editing of the entire PT, not just The Phantom Menace. I mean, he left out good scenes, and inserted scenes that had no business making the final cut. Lucas should have asked for second opinions from his staff and people who know him. I mean, the man hasn't directed a movie since the '70s.
  18. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 5
    Nicely done. ;)
  19. SambX Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 14, 2011
    star 1
    What makes you think he didn't ask?
  20. strawberryfields Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2011
    ;)
  21. TH_421 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2011
    I just watched TPM again tonight. I liked it at its release and I like it now. Yes, I think a lot of people badly underrate it, and this is largely not on account of its flaws but because of expectations they brought into the theater with them that the film did not meet. It was not what they expected - possibly because their expectations were a.) impossibly high and b.) what they wanted was another OT Star Wars film. To justify their disappointment, they dwell on genuine but minor flaws (Jar-Jar, fart jokes) and these get blown out of all proportion, preventing the film being enjoyed on the strength of its merits.

    Liam Neeson, Ewan MacGregor, Natalie Portman and Ian MacDiarmid all turned in a solid performance. I think that Portman was at her strongest in this film, but that may have more to do with the script than her abilities. Neeson presented a definitive Jedi knight. He sets a standard for what the Jedi were meant to do and to be, before they are maneuvered into fighting the Clone wars. Ewan MacGregor was good if not great as young Obi-Wan, but the few flat notes again can be attributed to scripting. All in all, I thought Neeson and MacGregor made a dynamic and believable pair.

    And Ian MacDiarmid nearly show the screen in the PT. Some have said he hams it up too much, but I think he is very much in the right tone for what this film is, and what it is an homage to. MacDiarmid lucked into the role of Palpatine in RotJ, and Lucas was wise to approach him for the PT. Alec Guiness condescended to the franchise, but MacDiarmid really enjoyed it. It's entertainment, it's meant to be fun and I think he got that, and really brought Palpatine to life. I watch the PT as much to see MacDiarmid play Palpatine unfolding his grand scheme as I do for the rest of the story. The PT doesn't have Vader in the way the OT did. Palpatine has to be the Big Bad, and be it subtly in I and II, and come on heavy in III. We're just talking about I here, but I think he set the tone perfectly at the beginning.

    Another performance I don't here credited enough is Pernilla August as Shmi Skywalker. Her whole carriage, her expression - these as much as her delivery (which I thought was top notch) really speak to me, are convincing, and sell me on the story of Anakin's mysterious origin. I really wish they could have done more with her in AotC, but as things stand, TPM is the only film to really showcase her. She's good and I enjoy her in this film, and I enjoy this film for her part in it.

    Jake Lloyd did pretty well, with a little stiffness in some scenes, but in some he really was right on the money. Anakin being a child doesn't upset me. Actually, I think it is a brilliant move to humanize him, to set up the real tragedy of Darth Vader, and knowing what destiny he is headed for makes the whole childhood aspect ominous and just the right kind of creepy.

    Jar-Jar doesn't ruin it for me. I don't much enjoy him, but he's not that bad, and there are a few plot points - most particularly his mention of the Gungan "grand army" - that turn on him, and that actually foreshadow larger themes in the PT.

    Highlights: The duels. We actually get a lot of lightsaber action in this film, and seeing Neeson and MacGregor do their thing from the Trade Federation cruiser to the rescue and escape of the queen is deeply satisfying. I grew up on the OT. We'd never gotten to see what Jedi could do, until TPM. TPM delivered.

    The intial Jinn v. Maul clash doesn't get mentioned much, perhaps because it was inconclusive. But it is fast and tight and tense, plainly challenges Qui-Gon, and occurs just at a point in the plot where we need to see that there is a real threat to the Queen and that while matters have played out favorably on Tatooine, danger remains.

    The climactic "duel of the fates" is far, far more energetic than anything we got to see in the OT. Again, this showcases Jedi in their prime - while underscoring Qui-Gon's poigniant reply to Anakin's "No one can kill a Jedi". Qui-Gon's death hits hard - he has been a very sympathetic c
  22. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    And do you have a source for that? Just because you say so, doesn't make it a fact.
  23. The_living_force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2002
    star 1
    Anakin didn't destroy the Control ship by mistake, the force guided him. It's explained in the book and I agree that it could've been more clearly displayed in the film but we all know how the force works (You mean it controls my actions? Partially but...etc. etc.) and we know that Anakin is highly attuned to the force so it shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend.
  24. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The book's rendition of the scene is much better, but unfortunately in the film it just looks like a kid button-mashing a video game.
  25. Boom_Pow Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2009
    When the PT was coming out in theaters, I thought TPM was the worst of the 3. For some reason now, it's my favorite of the 3.
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