PT TPM underrated

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by matt0812, Jul 16, 2010.

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  1. Caleb89sw Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2010
    star 1
    That's hilarious! I've lost all respect for G4 a long time ago, with me being a Nintendo fan and all, so this is great! [face_laugh]
  2. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    You mean Chris Gore? Any idea when this was on? I'm assuming it was part of "Attack of the Show", his "DVDuesday" segment. It'd be awesome if there were some video online of this.
  3. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    yes him and yes attack of the show. I honestly don't remember exactly how long ago it was but it was around a few months ago and i agree, if there is any way to search for and find this clip an effort definitely should be made.
  4. MissPadme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Chris Gore has been a basher from way back, even before TPM came out. He started out his career bashing ROTJ ;). Never liked the guy. He showed up late for a panel at Comic Con called "Oh You Sexy Geek" about women in fandom and he made an utter d*uche of himself. I'm thrilled his attempt at slagging TPM fell flat [face_laugh]. Tough crowd, bro.

    --MissPadme
  5. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Yeah Chris Gore...:rolleyes:

    Could've picked a better critic of the film that's for sure.
  6. GeneralCeel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2005
    star 2
    As to the original question proposed by this topic, TPM underrated? Yes, very much so. The way I see it, those of us who like the film, people who have not been bullied into not enjoying star wars by the haters and critics give it all the credit it deserves and after 13 years continue to uncover new levels of enjoyment. As for the "other crowd," yes, too many people have never given the film its due. The problem is that once a person has made up their mind about something they refuse to be open to the possibilities. In the case of TPM, or any movie, if you decide you hate it and never watch it again, you'll never have the chance to peel back the layers and make connections you may have missed back in 1999. This is why its important to be open minded.
  7. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 4


    In Gore's defense, he loved both AOTC and ROTS. That's a whole hell of a lot better than most naysayers who just refused to ackowledge anything prequels related has any merit.
  8. FennShysha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 1
    No, Phantom Menace is not underrated, it was overrated initially when it came out and criticized a little too much for a few years but at this point it is pretty much rated. It's a kid oriented movie that has some entertaining moments but in the end is rather forgettable and has minimal replay value.
  9. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    As to the original question proposed by this topic, TPM underrated? Yes, very much so.


    Are these comments supposed to be fact or opinion? Because both read as facts.
  10. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    I would certainly say that TPM is often very underrated even by people who claim to be SW fans (how you can be a true SW fan and not like the PT has always been a confounding mystery to me).

    Anyone who hasn't read Janet Maslin's original NYT review recently (or ever) should try reading it: 'The Phantom Menace': In the Beginning, the Future

    It does a good job of putting things in perspective and actually trying to look at the film's merits aside from the hype and out-of-control merchandising that accompanied the film's original release. And it actually does credit much of the good things that Lucas brought to the movie, and would again with AOTC and ROTS.

    Now, 13 years later, we have the additional delight of watching it now that Liam Neeson seems to be a bona fide action-movie star and Natalie Portman has become an Academy Award-winning actress. (Who'd have thought, huh?)

    I have a lot of fun watching the PT, and especially trying to keep in mind the two "alternate" ways to look at everything that is happening (both as the main characters who are utterly clueless about Palpatine's true intentions and - from the point of view of Palpatine himself, rather cleverly manipulating pretty much everyone around him).

    In any event, I still think if you approach TPM with an open mind, it is a reasonably fun movie, with some minor flaws - what popcorn movie really aspires to be perfect? Now, that would be silly! :p
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Nice. :D
  12. bluesaber70 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2007
    star 2
    The Phantom Menace story is darn near flawless. That is what makes or breaks a film for me. I've said it before this is the most birlliant of all 6 fims.
  13. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    In some ways, it is.

    And to add to what I said earlier, I love the way it is layered so that multiple viewings can bring on added meaning (and pathos)

    Just think of the final scene, the "celebration" in Theed. Watching that for the first time, without having seen episodes 4-6, you're bound to interpret that in a much different way that you do when you know everything that is going to happen to the main characters; once you know that, it becomes a little ironic and more bittersweet, especially in the last few shots (the close-ups of Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan).

    To me, it is a little paradoxical that in this aspect, TPM is more like real life than just about any sci-fi out there. The initial, sometimes superficial reading of others (and their motives) sometimes doesn't even begin to give you an idea of what is really going on, in a more profound way. And sometimes, it takes months, years or decades to finally understand why meeting someone is going to have huge ramifications for you later on. Maybe even for many others, as well.

    But you don't know that when you're first experiencing many things, meeting new people, getting new opportunities, etc.


  14. JimRaynor55 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 3
    ^I agree that the prequels are underrated, and that they have a surprising amount of depth. All the Original Trilogy fanboys claim that the prequels are soulless CGI spectacles, but the prequels tackle things that the Original Trilogy only skims the surface of. Which is not intended as a knock on the OT, since the prequels build from their foundation.

    But really, the prequels explore so many themes, like the corruption of government, the need to learn from the past while overcoming its mistakes, the way that good intentions can lead to unexpected disasters later on, etc. Even the basic theme about resisting hatred, taken from Return of the Jedi, is explored in far more depth. I dare say that Anakin is the most fleshed out character in all of Star Wars.
  15. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    You're probably right about that.

    And he makes for a great contrast with Palpatine, who is in the end the ultimate evil. He just wants power for power's sake. He schemes and manipulates others for decades until he accomplishes his goals. Both before and after revealing himself to be a Sith lord, there is very little complexity to the character... yet he's not strictly speaking a one-note villain. He's just one of the most manipulative, stealthy S.O.B.s ever... so it is of course going to be a total delight to see him (quite literally) going down, at the end of the saga.
  16. ThetaChi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    It is my favorite Prequel Episode so yes I think it's underrated. Qui-Gon, Darth Maul, Pod Racing, the laser sword duel in the end. Too much fun. And yeah, Jar-Jar has his funny moments. Episodes IV-VI are untouchable but Episode I is fantastic. Episode II conversation next year is thankfully next year!
  17. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    The Phantom Menace is one of the most beautiful, intricate, artistic and brilliant fantasy/adventure films of all time! Kids and untainted first time viewers understand this but people who are insecure with watching the saga in THE CORRECT order, the order the creator passionately intends it to be seen in, dont understand this, or simply don't want to. These people need to grow up, get with the times and either allow themselves to enjoy and appreciate Star Wars or just admit that it is not star wars they are fans of, it is BASHING star wars that they are fans of because that is the ONLY thing they show any enthusiasm for to the point where they are nothing but trolls and downers.

    The basic themes of TPM are truly beautiful and there is a lot to be enjoyed if you just go in with an open mind. The following is just ONE example of the many great themes woven into the film:

    A symbiotic relationship is a relationship between two entities which is mutually beneficial in order for both participants of the relationship to survive. Thus there is a positive-sum gain from cooperation. This is a term commonly used in biology and also in philosophy (two areas lucas excels in) to explain the relationship between two entities that need each other to survive and prosper. The bumblebee and the flower would be an example and in the film the midichlorians and living beings need to work together in order to communicate with the force. Symbiosis is THE prominent theme in TPM! It is exemplified all throughout the film, beginning, middle and end and it is cleverly done with the point of jar-jar's character being to teach a lesson in tolerance and understanding for beings who are different than you. Its completly innocent! Makes it even MORE of a shame so many people misunderstand jar-jar and join in on the tired trend of bashin him.

    This symbiotic relationship theme starts right from the beginning of the film with Obi-Wan?s dialogue to Boss Nass: "You and the Naboo form a symbiotic circle. What happens to one of you will affect the other. You must understand this."

    The Naboo (the first republic planet we see) represents two species who need to realize they depend on one another, and need one another, even if they don?t particularly like one another at first.

    Its the two societies of the planet Naboo's refusal to accpt this which keeps them in danger of the Traid Federations invasion of them. When padme establishes peice and understanding between the two societies they can now work together and becouse they are finaly working together they can survive and that is how they defeat the greedy trade barons and save their planet. It is an AMAZINGLY beautiful metaphor!

    The dark tragidy of TPM is that dispite all this the sith still win. While the heroes are being introduced throughout the film on their epic adventure to combat the invasion of Naboo, they are actually unwitting pawns in Palpatines master plan to get elected. This is the most basic reasion why TPM is a truly beautiful fanticy film and the best way to start the saga.

    This is all EVEN MORE interesting when you just consider the amazing parallels between what happens in the film to what has been happening in America lately. And thats coming from George Lucas himself. Now that we've (finally) become so culturally aware of greedy-corporations buying into and controlling politicians and political parties I believe it is easier to truly appreciate the clever political sub-plots of the film and the PT as a whole. The greatest, bloodiest conflict in galactic history (the clone wars) would begin with a seemingly inconsequential conflict about greedy corparations trying to pay less taxes in TPM. That is what was presented as the beginning of the end of the great old republic. How brilliant!

    Along the way of the vast adventure accross the galaxy we are gracefully introduced to all the key characters and important places of the saga and presented with breath taking scope and examples of amazing different cultures all while laying the solid groundwork and basic rules for the whole entire
  18. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    I live in Southern California. While watching "THE PHANTOM MENACE" yesterday, I noticed that Palpatine's machinations to get himself elected Chancellor reminded me of California's Gubernatorial Recall Election of 2003, which ousted Gray Davis as governor of the state and allowed Arnold Schwarzenegger to be elected in his place. This happened four years after "THE PHANTOM MENACE" was released in theaters.
  19. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Well, you know, we can all thank the lords that he wasn't a U.S.-born citizen, 'cause who knows how far he'd have gotten if he had run for president. ;)
  20. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Considering that his role as California's governor didn't help the state one bit, I shiver at the thought.
  21. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    Yeah, me too. And that's not even going into his having illegitimate children with the maids... :rolleyes:

    But getting back to the thread topic... TPM, yeah, way to go!!!! :D

    (Hope to watch it in a XLS theater today or tomorrow)
  22. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Did you know that a writer from EW magazine rated the movie a "B", claiming that it was better than he had originally thought?
  23. MandalorianDuchess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2010
    star 3
    I have never put much faith in the EW writers, to be honest. They occasionally will make one or two worthwhile observations and then the rest of their review fills like filler. Not to mention the obvious potential for conflict of interest with all of the WB movies.
  24. vong333 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 4
    I remember when I first saw TPM, and I'll tell you, I thought it was a good movie. I went in with the perspective that it was going to be different from the OT, in fact, GL in the 10th anniversary star wars issue of starlog, he stated that the begining would be a little boring with all the backdrop and political stuff that would be in it. The movie was pretty good, and many people went to see it.

    The Jar Jar charater was odd, but not to the point that many went to bash the character and then the actor. The big problem with the movie, was that it was too kiddie compared to the first Matrix movie that came out. That movie made half of what TPM made, but gained a lot more critical acclaim for the special effects, to inlcude winning the Academy award on it. Making TPM the first of the three prequel movies to not win anything in the Academy. Something that the OT did.

    Regardless, I liked the movie, but it ended up being the reason why later on part of AOTC and ROTS failed to get higher numbers at the box office.
  25. JediofJade Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 1999
    star 5
    My first impression of TPM (when I was 10) was pure infatuation. Obi-wan, the lightsaber fights, the podracing, the awesome new ship designs, CORUSCANT (at last, a visual to accompany my reading of Zahn's Thrawn trilogy), the breathtaking costumes...I was in love. And I continued to be until AOTC - as I got older, the shine on TPM seemed to fade substantially.

    Now, having seen it again on the big screen all these years later, I can say that I have a new appreciation for this movie. Jar Jar was still kind of irritating, but it struck me how sincere he was, and how his addition made the movie that much more approachable for kids. But it's really the unfolding of the plot that earned my renewed admiration. It's so slick. I remember during my first viewing of the movie (midnight showing; why yes, my parents did indeed take me to see it - my mom fell asleep, having no interest in SW. Goes to show that they understood how big a fan I was, having watched the OT about five thousand times already) and when Palpatine says to Anakin, "We will be watching your career with great interest"...I got chills. At ten years old. Even at that age, not fully comprehending the plot details (taxation of trade routes? Vote of no confidence? I had no idea what that really meant), I still understood how important these events were, and how they were dovetailing so slowly, and so surely into the OT.

    Upon my recent viewing, that dovetailing stood out to me even more. And I personally think that the scene of Palpatine leaning over Amidala's shoulder in the Senate, whispering, guiding, while Amidala's painted face shows so much fear and bravery, is one of the most beautiful and terrifying images of the entire saga.

    TPM was always "underrated" in my eyes, but I admit to having a period when the film sunk in my opinion. But after this latest rewatch, I have to say that it really is a solid movie. The only things working against it are its length (because I just have this thing where any movie, no matter how awesome, that's over two hours long absolutely drives me crazy with restlessness) and Jar Jar, who has grown on me, but not enough for me to consider him entirely likeable. But overshadowing these flaws is a complex play of action and adventure and humor and darkness, with so many different aspects to examine and appreciate.

    I really do love this movie. It amazed me when I was ten, and it fascinates me now.
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