PT TPM underrated

I agree with the central question of this thread: TPM is underrated.

This may be a terribly unpopular opinion, but I think TPM is a few key choices away from being a "good" to "great" SW entry.

- Jar Jar - I'm aware that it does not take much time on the Web to find anti-Jar Jar posting. The character simply does not work for me. I remember the first time I saw TPM in the theater. From the moment Jar Jar began speaking, there seemed to be a quiet hiss of disbelief building amongst the crowd. I know that this is a TPM thread, but I LOVE that Lucas indirectly responded to the Jar Jar backlash in AOTC by making him responsible for Palps' "emergency powers." I blame anyone who might have been in the position to say, "George, this Jar Jar character is annoying on paper. Are you sure?", rather than Ahmed Best.

- Little choices that don't work - I don't like Boss Nash slobbering all over, the farting creatures, or the wheeling out of old characters for no real purpose (see Jabba).

- De-mystifying the Force - microscopic blood parasites living in symbiosis with us that can be quantified by a scanner? Sorry, no. Can you do a midi-chlorian transfusion? Is a high concentration of midi-chlorians more common to one blood type? That choise raises too many questions that take away from the idea of the Force.

I have never had a problem with the idea of establishing Anakin as a special child, scarred by being separated from his mother. I've never had a problem with Jake Lloyd. I love the lightsaber work in TPM. I loved Duel of the Fates. I really enjoyed Ewan as Obi in all three PT films. I appreciate how TPM is our first chance to see Palps as a puppet master, slowly moving pieces into place to eventually take over and create his Empire.

There's a lot I love about TPM, and yes, it's underrated.

 

I actually felt this was one of the better additions in theory. The problem was that midi-chlorians were not well fleshed out. I'm a fervent religious skeptic, so this development actually appealed to me. Then George Lucas brought in the stuff about prophecy, destiny, prophetic dreams, a grand cosmic plan to balance the Force, and he lost me. The PT needed more characters with a worldview like Han Solo, or even a Jedi that regarded the Force as a tool or an instrument. When all the Jedi are cookie-cutter Zen Buddhist types, it takes away from the richness their characters could have.

 

In a way, nothing in SW is "fleshed out". It's all lines, and curves, and geometry, and sight gags, and word play. But within this saga is tremendous compression. The concept of destiny is expressed visually from the moment the original SW movie starts, long before anyone has spoken or uttered anything, before even a human face has appeared. Technically, the PT has the very characters or archetypes you're speaking of: Jar Jar is cynical about the Force, just like Han Solo, bad-mouthing it whilst in a ship with Force practitioners, just like Han Solo, and Anakin, in many senses, treats the Force as a tool or an instrument. Interestingly, the character never mentions the Force by name in TPM or AOTC except somewhat grudgingly (to these ears) when he returns Obi-Wan's blessing before departing with Padme and Artoo as they head for the transport to Naboo in AOTC; in ROTS, he reacts somewhat defensively when he says to Palpatine, "how do you know the ways of the Force?"; the only time it doesn't seem to have a slightly maleficent sound from his mouth is when he is the first to recite the blessing (an inversion of AOTC) to Obi-Wan as he heads for Utapau (though Anakin's face then dips into despair when Obi-Wan is out of sight). Given that Anakin long harboured dreams of becoming a Jedi, it's somewhat surprising how little he mentions the Force. I don't think all the Jedi in the PT are "cookie-cutter Zen Buddhist types", either. Some are more stoic (Qui-Gon, Mace, Yoda), others less so (Anakin, Obi-Wan and hints of others like Kit Fisto, with his impish grin on Geonosis). There are different personalities in the Order, that's for sure. Of course, you're likely to find some "zen" traits, especially among the higher-ups; they are, after all, Jedi, y'know. That said, there are no Mister Miyagis or Pai Meis, so I do understand your point; this and all your others, in fact. TPM (and the PT) is what it is.

 

I always thought to myself that Qui-Gon was a different sect of jedi than the JCers. His was focused on the living Force, while theirs was on the unifying.

TPM is by far my favorite PT film.

 

Well, I believe all the Prequels are underrated, but that's just me.

 

No, its not just you. I think even if the prequels are flaming piles of frozen crap compared to the prequels (IMO they're not), there's still a whole lot to enjoy (that's kind of how I feel about the The Clone Wars and most of the EU).

 

I agree with many on here that all three are underrated. I was watching the Spike marathon yesterday off and on throughout the day. The only parts that still bug me and make me want to change the channel is any time Anakin and Padme are alone in a scene together. Hayden and Portman have no chemistry. At no point do they come across as two people in love. Everything sounds forced and awkward. Honestly, I'd rather watch hours of Jar-Jar then those two try to pull off a scene. Not to say they aren't good actors on their own, but IMO their scenes (especially involving romance) are the worst in the PT.

 

I mean, Anakin and Jar Jar were annoying, sure, but it was enough on the side that it didn't matter as much as people say. With that subtracted, it was an excellent movie.
I mean there's honestly no reason to be bashing the prequels in general... obviously they weren't as good as the original trilogy, but what movie IS? If you don't consider that standard, they really are super good movies.

 

I was a very strong TPM defender when the film came out. It had problems and it wasn't entirely what I'd hoped, but it FELT like "Star Wars" and there was a promise of so much more.

When AOTC and ROTS came out....their flaws made TPM look like a masterpiece in my eyes.

TPM's flaws are that it has long sections of uninspiring and lacklustre cinema.

AOTC and ROTS flaws are that they have moments of cringe-inducing dialogue, retcons, bad storytelling, terrible editing, jokes and references that don't make any sense if you haven't seen the OT, cartoonish behavior by inconsistent characters and genuinely dull action sequences.

If Lucas made two more films in the aesthetic style, tone and restraint of TPM, I think the prequels would not be as awful as they turned out, even if they would not have been superior in any way to the OT.

 

TPM was so panned by the critics in part because it was the first installment. The hopes of fans, critics, and Hollywood waited a decade and had huge expectations. Many weren't satisfied and as a result, TPM was trashed.

TPM was the first chapter, the trail blazer that set the tone and foundation for the new trilogy. Those who didn't like the direction Lucas was taking--blamed TPM.

I'd agree that AOTC is a far weaker and more deeply flawed movie (though I think both fail.)

 

Even though I am a big defender of the TPM, I have to admit that sometimes I find the dialouge a little too wooden, so much to the point that in a way, I cant even hear the characters when they talk sometimes. What is amazing is that I find when I change the audio to the other setting on the dvd, the dialogue sounds a lot better.

 

Wooden dialogue aside, my real beef with TPM is that the story is, ultimately, nothing more than a 2+ hour affair to show how Palpatine became Chancellor, which Lucas all but admits in the commentary.

 

IMO TPM was the most misunderstood film of all time when it came out. Not because of how "complicated" or "deep" it is but because of how simple and straightforward it is and people just seemed to want it to be what the more common idea of a blockbuster movie is.

IMO TPM was beautifully done.

 

Its abundance of faults aside, there is no question that TPM was, plot-wise, deeper and more complex than ANH.

 

I think a lot of people understood it at the time, but still just thought it was poorly executed.

I think if Lucas had given the outline of the story to a first-rate screenwriter and (IMO) better director, it would have actually come much closer to reaching its impossibly high expectations.

The style was there - in spite of the special effects the scenes set on Naboo and Tatooine (i.e. on location rather than CGI) were visually spot on, and there's more here than the other two episodes combined) - I just would've preferred a different substance.

 

Lucas definitely needed to have more of a background role.

 

Just watched TPM about a week ago and, I have to say, it's a wonderful little movie. Tremendously underrated in my eyes. It has its faults, sure. The opening has moments that can be dull and the podrace drags on too long, but it establishes so many things that are integral to the PT and even the OT in many ways. Every time I watch it, the more I understand why Lucas made it the way he did: this is really the turning point. It's the turning point for both the Republic and for Anakin. Palpatine's ascension to the position of Chancellor gives the audience a glimpse into what will eventually cause the Separatist movement. The Republic is democratic and free, yes, but its inefficiency and corruption make it easier for us to understand why, later on, citizens would have opted for a more streamlined and action-oriented dictatorship.

I've read a great deal about how many people feel the character of Qui-Gon is unnecessary, but I have to disagree. He is absolutely essential to making sense of everything that comes later (at least in my view). His trust in the Force and belief in living in the moment stands in stark contrast to the Jedi Council's view of looking to the future. It also forms a bridge with Yoda's indictment of Luke in ESB: that he never concentrated on what he was doing, but rather, looked to the future. Yet in the PT, the Council is unnerved by Anakin's clouded future and they label him dangerous. It is only Qui-Gon who understands that an uncertain future does not make him a threat and treating him as such may lead him to becoming the very thing they feared.

 

My opinion is that the way people feel out Phantom Menace has always been a result of one thing: their age in 1999.

I was 16 at the time, and as I see it the perfect age. I was old enough to grow up loving the classic Star Wars on VHS, and with the rise of the internet to widespread use, just as Star Wars returning to theaters there was this feeling of "Yes, this new trilogy belongs to my generation."

Those who were more than a few years older than me, couldn't seem to get over the fact that they were no longer children, and as a result were looking at the film differently. This crowd insisted that TPM was childish... when in fact it was never any more childish than anything from the original trilogy.

 

I tend to agree, though I am a staunch supporter of the PT, overall.

I think that with the PT, Lucas was essentially trying to create a story in reverse from the usual way. For instance, in the OT (like most other movie series), when he began, he knew full well how to begin the story, but (initially) not how it would end. With the PT, he knew how the story would end, but not quite how or where to begin the whole thing. In a similar vein, where many movie series seem to start out strongly only to lose focus, momentum, etc. as they go on, the PT seemed to start out unfocused and messy, only to gather momentum and energy as the story progressed towards its climax. Compared to the rest of the PT, TPM often seems like a feature-length trailer with background information & ideas for the rest of the PT, rather than a fully fledged movie in its own right.

Still, it does have its moments (Darth Maul & Sidious, young Anakin's youthful hope & innocence before his downfall, the introduction of the Jedi in their prime, etc.)

 

TPM is, IMHO, a self-contained story much like ANH. The one thing that helps it is its distance from the other films. It staked out its own ground and held it. I think it's a good SW film overall. It's not a great one. But it is my favorite of the PT.

The one thing TPM wasn't helped by was a out of the box, game-changer sequel like ANH benefited from in TESB.

In fact, TPM was the most different of all the prequels. It perhaps carried too much of a burden on its own back(first film, the beginning, new characters, new story arc, fan expectations) but I think it has aged better than the other prequel films.

 

One of the reasons I like TPM so much is because, like ESB, it's something of a game changer in that it fundamentally alters the kind of movie Star Wars can be expected to be. In many ways, I'd argue it's an even bigger game changer, in fact-- ESB was good, but most of its big contributions were narrative ones, rather than stylistic. The bad guys won, and the good guys retreated with their tails tucked between their legs. Other than that, the main difference was the better cinematography, and had Suschitzky signed on for ANH like Lucas wanted originally, it wouldn't even have had that. Everything else in the film was pretty much just variations on what we got in ANH, only with no expenses spared.

TPM, however, is a very different beast from the previous SW films. The action is different (more fencing and acrobatic fight choreography than shootouts and dogfights), the story is different (more picaresque and episodic than the more straight-line narrative of the others) and the style is different (more formal, as opposed to the casual tone of the OT). Those differences are key factors as to why I like it so much-- it's a breath of fresh air, compared to the previous three films. It was something new.

 

One of the things I also like about it is its lighter tone.

I am so tired of this: "it has to be dark, darker than pitch black, darkity dark darkit, to be cool" mantra.

Yes, I like a good piece of heavy material, but I like that TPM has this lighter feel than all the other films. And yet, look at that ending. In context, the bad guys won.

I mean, even the Errol Flynn swashbucklers had occasional retreats into goofiness at times. It was part of their appeal.

 

This.

The saga as a whole is especially dark, but I think TPM was intentionally made to be lighter in tone to match ROTJ, and especially to contrast ROTS. Beyond tone though, TPM is literally brighter with more daytime scenes than any other Star Wars movie, and comparatively less time in the darkness of space.

 

Yeah. I'm not a fan of Errol Flynn's movies at all, personally (in Robin Hood, especially, he comes off as something of a jerk), but they managed a good balance. Even Kurosawa's samurai movies had a lot of light humor in them.

TPM is easily my favorite individual SW picture. At times I feel that fandom is kinda spoiled by the dark affairs of things like ESB and Blade Runner. And hell, even those have their goofy moments.

 

I would say TPM might be my third favorite. The Luke/Emperor confrontation in ROTJ is better than anything in TPM but that's only the last third of the film. TPM was more consistent.

And I still love the underwater journey. Everyone always bags on this. Yes, they could've gotten to Theed another way but how? Overland and they risk being nailed by the TF.

Yes Jar Jar grated a little but watch Gunga Din, a film Lucas was clearly inspired by, and tell me it didn't have the same goofy character.