TPM Will Be Viewed as Sheer Brilliance After Ep. 3

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by JediNdaCity, Aug 10, 2003.

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  1. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    I was looking at TPM today after not watching it for a while and after countless viewings of Ep. 2 and discussions and speculations on Ep. 3 and I saw some revelations today in TPM that I'm sure will deepen even more after Ep. 3. A lot of it has to do with Qui Gonn and exactly pinpointing his motivations while on Tatooine. A poignant thing I noticed was the exchange between Qui Gonn and Anakin at the dinner table. On the surface, it almost seems trivial what they're talking about, but there is so much more in that dialogue.

    Anakin: "You're a Jedi, aren't you?"

    Now, Anakin says he knows this because he saw the "laser sword" he was carrying. But it's really because he is so strong in the force, he instantly recognizes it in Qui-Gonn.

    Qui-Gonn: I see there's no fooling you, Anakin. We're on our way to Coruscant, on an important mission."

    Right here is the key. On the surface, it just seems Anakin is a smart little boy.
    But Qui Gonn now knows this boy is special. He is EXTREMELY strong in the force. He just can't let it be known at this point that he has figured this out. And how could this be? He's just a farm boy. It's a case of two strong force users feeling each other out, unbeknowst to everyone at the table. Only Anakin is new to it, but he recognizes it in himself nonetheless.

    There's more I'll post later. If anyone else has other revelations they've noticed, please feel free to discuss here.
  2. KosmicKnine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Of course Qui-Gon's having mentioned Anakin's being able to race pods must mean Anakin has Jedi reflexes and then Qui-Gon a second later demonstrating he has the same fast reflexes by grabbing Jar Jar's tongue could also have keyed Anakin in on Qui-Gon being a Jedi, provided the boy was paying attention.
  3. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    But is Anakin really aware of the Force in TPM? I don't see how one can really come to the conclusion that Anakin is really attuned to the Force.

    And as far as sensing that QG was a Jedi, nothing really supports that.

    We never really find out what gave QG his hunch about Ani to begin with. The movies never explain was a "vergence in the force" is. Maybe Ep. III will tie some of this stuff up.
  4. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    There ARE those of us who view it as sheer brilliance without Episode III, y'know. :p



    Rick McCallum loves you!
  5. Onnie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 3
    (raises hand)

    I have a question. Why does it take two other movies to make one movie Sheer Brilliance?

    Did it take two others to make 'A New Hope' that?

    Did it take two others to make 'Empire Strikes Back' that?

    Well, okay, if you think so I'll be good and we can take it to the classic forums. However, I feel that having to fall back on other material to make a movie brillant is rather... wait let me get out the dictionary.... or maybe someone will help me out here. What's the word I'm looking for that will pass the language filter? ;)
  6. Jedi-Monkey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2002
    star 4
    I'm with Adam on this one. There are some of us who already have realized how good it is. There are also some people, no matter how good Episode III is, and even if it DOES address all the concerns people have about TPM, and DOES make it into a better movie, they will still not see it that way. Just as TESB is sacred to them, and Gary Kurtz is their hero and the "True genius behind Star Wars obviously," they will always feel the need to not like the newer movies. A need to bitch and moan about them because their inner child and sense of innocence and wonder that allowed them to view the older ones as great movies has left them now, apparently never to return.

    Did it take two others to make 'A New Hope' that?

    No it did not. But then Star Wars was a special case. It was the original, and the only one to tell a complete story on its own. After the original movie, ALL of the rest have relied on the other movies to make them good. Yes, including the sacred TESB. If it wasn't for Star Wars, TESB would just be silly.
  7. qui-gon-kim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 4
    I have a question. Why does it take two other movies to make one movie Sheer Brilliance?


    Did it take two others to make 'Empire Strikes Back' that?

    ESB required the viewer to watch ANH for full effect. When watched by itself, it didn't really make much sense.This can be applied to every sequel ever made. Also, the ending was unresolved, so the viewer was required to watch ROTJ to know how it ended. So I guess ESB DID need two other movies to make it "Sheer Brilliance."
  8. Onnie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 3
    No, but ESB required the viewer to watch ANH for full effect.

    Can we have someone who hasn't watched the first Star Wars show please stand up and say, the Empire didn't make any sense?

    Come on guys, I feel like I'm aruging about the Hobbit being a childs book here...

    There are some faults (okay big faults) with the PT, there are some great things as well. But let's all admit, we didn't need three movies to see how GREAT the PM was.

    No wait, let me take that back! I feel like I'm debating the air speed of an unlanded swallow.. or is that laidend ;)
  9. qui-gon-kim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 4
    Can we have someone who hasn't watched the first Star Wars show please stand up and say, the Empire didn't make any sense?

    What was this Death Star thing they talk about in the opening? We hardly have any backstory on our heroes or how they got together in the first place. And what's the deal with that ghostly fellow who talks to Luke?
  10. Onnie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 3
    You mean you haven't watched the first Star Wars movie?

    I'd like a fresh thought on what it is like to watch Empire without having seen the first movie. And Empire isn't even really the main point. We all, I think, "GOT" A New Hope without two other movies needing to back it up (let alone three plus) and the Oscars also went nuts over it.

    That's my point.

    BTW, you don't know the air speed on swallows do you ;)
  11. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    A need to bitch and moan about them because their inner child and sense of innocence and wonder that allowed them to view the older ones as great movies has left them now, apparently never to return.

    This is a final warning, Monkey. It is entirely possible for you to discuss the films without taking swipes at your fellow posters, but you consistently choose not to do so. I'm sick of it. If you keep this up, you will be gone for a long, long time. Clear?
  12. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    To be quite honest, there are a few people here who have invested a considerable amount of time into hating the prequels (mostly just as matter of principle, really) so I doubt they will be so easily swayed.
  13. Onnie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 3
    Durwood you old son-of-a-gun long time no see! :)

    How the heck are ya's? You missed me admit it! :D Okay, maybe you didn't... but I bet yer trying to make me pout by saying that. ;)
  14. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I have no idea who you are.
  15. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    I know someone who saw Empire first and was so amazed by it that he then saw ANH.

    And ANH was made as a film that 'began in the middle' as it were, it was intentional, Lucas realised that he didn't have to explain all the back story for the audience.

    As for TPM - well even if Ep.3 is great it can't really improve the gaping flaws in TPM such as : some of the dullest performances ever, main characters with little charisma or chemistry with each other and Jar Jar Binks, a character which is by far the biggest miss-step in the series, he dominates the film and drags it down to the level of idiocy, IMO.
    How can ep.3 change that?

    BTW, you don't know the air speed on swallows do you

    African or European? ;)

    gez
  16. qui-gon-kim Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2001
    star 4
    I know someone who saw Empire first and was so amazed by it that he then saw ANH.

    And there are many other people who never saw the OT (including some people in this forum, if I'm not mistaken) who reacted the same way after watching TPM.
  17. JediNdaCity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2002
    star 3
    Whoa! LOL I started this thread to discuss "revelations" that you have discovered after seeing AOTC and the speculation of Ep. 3. I never intended this to be a debate about is the movie brilliant on it's own or not.
    I think TPM is a movie that is the FIRST chapter in a six part series.
    Which means a LOT of setup and introduction. On it's own, it's a bit flat. But I believe GL did this on purpose. I love TPM and I admit, it did take a bit for it to grow on me. But that was because I was expecting The original trilogy again and GL threw me a loop. It's my own fault for expecting the same films I enjoyed as a kid. I respect GL even more for staying true to his vision and giving me a movie that doesn't lay it all in front of me. It makes you THINK. Something we have FAR too little of in movies nowadays.
    It's a film I believe that needs to completely contrast with the third film which I why I say it will be viewed as sheer brilliance. Qui-Gonn Kim said it best. The films need each other to get the complete ideas they represent. There's really nothing to debate about because GL constructed a SERIES. Not stand alone films. The idea is for you to watch them ALL. Whether at once or in installments. So, I ask of you all again, if there are any scenes or dialogue that reveal themselves to you since seeing the other films, let's talk about that, not something as trivial as if the film is brilliant or not.

    Thank you and May the Froce Be With You. :)
  18. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    I doubt it. People said we would understand the importance of TPM after AOTC and that TPM was simply an introduction and "had" to be like this. I've even heard theories that the space battle was made to be inferior to the ROTJ one because people watching them in order want to be blown away by ROTJ. Sorry, but I'm sick of the excuses. TPM can't be redeemed unless Lucas releases Ep III with the title: "Episode I: the Real version".
  19. hoth-nudist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2000
    star 3
    Im with Hawk on this one. I thought TPM was a SHEER waste. So much potential for a beginning just wasted!
  20. openmind Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2003
    star 4
    The prequels will be viewed as sheer brilliance after Ep. III. [face_devil]

  21. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    JediNdaCity, I'm sorry your thread has been invaded by some idiots who got the wrong message from this thread.
    Plus to make a general comment if you didn't get TPM in 1999, and still don't get it, then you never will, for whatever reason. Bitch about it, complain about, this will not change.
    Besides I've always thought TPM was brilliant, because it was like ANH was to some of you grown up moaners (and gushers).

    Its more intelligent than the OT, thats for certain and it really gets down to question your inner self and your own morality. Hell the whole of the PT does this (I'm confident EP3 will follow in the same vein here).

    if there are any scenes or dialogue that reveal themselves to you since seeing the other films

    Well Darth Maul's "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge." line is a perfect example of how the Sith get their revenge. :D

    1. Infiltrate the government they serve.
    2. Create a Galactic War which will kill many of them and insert some distrust of them.
    3. Blame them for the creation of the War and the Army and denounce them as traitors.
    4. Wipe them from the galaxy just as the Sith were.

    The scene of Anakin leaving Shmi is sadder and more tragic. Anakin doesn't realise that this is the penultimate time he will see hs mother before she meets her maker. And everything he feared comes true.

    There is the obvious "And you, young Skywalker, we will watch your career with great interest." from Palpatine. :D
    We see he has far more involvement in Anakin's life than even the Jedi know.

    There are many scenes in TPM which brilliantly setup AOTC and EP3. And show the ground roots of what will transpire.

    You can come back in 48 hours, if you can play nicely with others. If you can't avoid comments like these, try another website.
  22. hawk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2000
    star 5
    JediNdaCity, I'm sorry your thread has been invaded by some idiots who got the wrong message from this thread.

    At least they can make their comments without resorting to personal insults. This first sentence now completely undermines your intentions. :)
  23. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    I'd just like to point out I get The Phantom Menace. I think most people do. We're not dealing with some bizarre expressionist film where you need a PhD in film studies and whatever else to get your head around it, we're dealing with Star Wars, which is just a simple fairystory, about good versus. I just happen to think, along with several other people, that Episode I's execution is rather mediocore at best, and unless Episode III contains a remake of The Phantom Menace half way through, nothing will change that.
  24. Darth_MacDaddy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2003
    star 4
    *Yawn* Same old, same old.

    Maybe, this topic should be spit in two:

    TPM Will Be Viewed as Sheer Brilliance After Ep. 3 - Don't we love it

    TPM Will Be Viewed as Sheer Brilliance After Ep. 3 - Don't we hate it

    Why does every conversation have to turn into an arguement? If you don't like the topic of conversation (whether it be pro-TPM or anti-TPM) don't respond to it.

    (This is not aimed at anyone in particular)
  25. VCT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 3
    TPM Will Be Viewed as Sheer Brilliance After Ep. 3 - Don't we hate it

    If you're trying to be a peacemaker I suggest you not make inflammatory statements like that one. All you are saying with that statement is that people who may disagree with the assertion "TPM Will Be Viewed as Sheer Brilliance After Ep. 3" are not only wrong, but hateful as well.

    I am of the opinion that TPM, while enjoyable enough on certain levels, also has certain fundamental flaws, not all of which will be brilliantly rectified by Episode III. I'm not suddenly going to care deeply about what I thought were flat characters in TPM no matter what happens in EIII. In my opinion TPM needed to do that on its own, and it didn't -- not for me, anyway. And I don't believe that I'm being "hateful" for thinking that.


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