TPM's Appeal: Did the Media Make it Appear that ALL SW Fans Were Dissapointed With It?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Apr 13, 2002.

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  1. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Oh, I wouldn't go that far, Malthus. I'm sure they'll find stuff to complain about.

    "I liked this better than TPM, but then ANYTHING'S better than TPM, and I hated the CGI and Jar Jar didn't die a long slow painful death and Anakin was too whiny and Darth Maul wasn't resurrected and..."
  2. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Look at the way the press distorts stuff:

    --April 22, 2002 -- It's hard to consider the fourth-highest grossing film of all time a disappointment, but "Stars Wars" director George Lucas has made it plain to merchandisers that "Phantom Menace" was a dog.--
    No he didn't. He made it plain that the merchandising didn't live up to expectations and was, in his words, overlicensed, overshipped, and oversaturated. The press is completely distorting the memo he wrote, just like it distorted Ewan McGregor's remarks about TPM being "a little flat." They took that and ran with it, blaring headlines about McGregor "dissing" TPM and "confirming what we all knew...the movie was a big ol' turkey." He did no such thing, but the press intentionally distorted what he said and put words in his mouth. And it's interesting how the press hasn't hyped up the positive comments from Christopher Lee or Hayden Christensen at all. Only Ewan McGregor's gripes are given full-dress treatment by the press.

    How about the way it continues to put forth the idea that TPM made Liam Neeson want to quit movies (as "Entertainment Weekly" did just two weeks ago in their AOTC cover story)? Never mind that Neeson himself pointed out that he was referring to "The Haunting," not to TPM. The press only reports what it sees, huh? It doesn't have any biases, huh? It doesn't hide anything and provides balanced reporting, huh?
  3. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    Oh, I wouldn't go that far, Malthus. I'm sure they'll find stuff to complain about.

    "I liked this better than TPM, but then ANYTHING'S better than TPM, and I hated the CGI and Jar Jar didn't die a long slow painful death and Anakin was too whiny and Darth Maul wasn't resurrected and..."


    I know, that's the crotchety few I mentioned. Because I'm in the basher camp, if you had to label me that is, and I'm not like that. I can't stand when a basher tries to say it's all bad. Drives me nuts.

    Have faith, my gusher friend. If AotC is as I hope it will be, then only the hopeless cases will be left in the complainers category.
  4. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Malthus,

    Lemme by ya a brewski somtime... I like to talk to a lot of basherss. I even like a few of them.

    You, I respect!
  5. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    "Just because they hate ONE Star Wars film does not mean they are not fans!"

    No, but if they find NOTHING of value in TPM I don't consider them fans. Star Wars is like sex. Even bad sex is better than no sex.
    And please no one refer to TPM as the equivalent of dropping your soap in the prison shower. I don't consider that lovemaking :)
  6. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    You, I respect!
    Thanks, Lukecash! You wouldn't happen to be in the Dallas, TX area would you? :)
  7. Darth23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 1999
    star 4
    Tye media is STILL making it appear as if all Star Wars fans were disappointed with TPM.

    Check out the latest USA today article featured in the Episode 2 section of TF.net:

    "Still, die-hard fans such as Mark Forster felt let down. The 34-year-old Web designer from Austin sums up fan disappointment in three words. "Jar Jar Binks. He was too silly for a movie series that people take very seriously. If it's taken a little longer for fans to go crazy, that's why."






  8. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    What? How does that make it appear that ALL fans are disappointed?! It's one guy! It's the media, they're going to report on stories! Jeez.

    So what if they found a fan that was disappointed? That doesn't translate to "the media has this evil master plan to brainwash us all into thinking that ALL fans were disappointed in TPM." I've seen just as many good reviews/interviews as I've seen bad ones. But if it advances your cause, go ahead and make up conspiracies if you want.
  9. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Thanks, Malthus. We don't see eye to eye on TPM and probably never will, but like Lukecash I respect you. :)
  10. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, but Malthus, they could've balanced it out by finding one guy (or woman) who liked TPM. That they chose to quote only a person who was disappointed says something.
  11. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    The Guardian's film critic Peter Bradshaw called the film "extraordinarily objectionable" and said "nothing has the right to bore and disappoint us this much."

    No critic has the right to say that, IMO.
  12. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    Maulthus,

    Sorry buddy, Im in Los angeles

    Any time you are in L.A. Baby, I'll by that brewski...or if I go to Texas
  13. CeeJay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Just a couple of replies..

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, GL gets his reaction notice from every source including the media. Regardless how much you may or may not trust the truth in their reports the rest of us and GL regard it as a reliable source of information.

    Duckman, I've yet to find anyone who is disgruntled with TPM who did not find ANYTHING of value with the film. Most of the FX were simply stunning, the costumes and set designs (although mostly digital) should have got an OSCAR and the music was an instant SW classic. I guess I have to agree to some degree if anyone found absolutely nothing of value with the film is maybe on ther way out of the Fandom.

    Shelly, You just love putting words in my mouth to suit you don't you, when ever did I show that I have a problem believing that fans actually liked TPM? If you bothered to READ my posts then you'd notice that I actually emphasize that as much fans who were dissapointed with TPM actually liked it aswell, so I have no idea what you're harping on about! And as for thinking that I know what goes on in the minds of other fans, well I can ask the same question of YOU and why you think you know what I'm thinking? I always state my opinion based on my experience, you seem to always think that means I'm telling you what I read in someones mind - Sorry, can't help you there, telepathy is not one of my skills so please refrain from accusing me of this in future and try not to get too personal in giving your opinions, everyone else has managed to do so!

    As for the Memo, that was indeed about the sales of merchandise but issued due to the fact that the film was regarded a dissapointment to many. If the film was as well recieved as some think, then that memo would not have existed. If the sales of mercahandise was low, even though the film was great, then wouldn't GL be issuing a memo to Hasbro to make better quality merchandise instead of apologising for not producing a more widely appealing film?

    All this Bashers "Winning" talk about the outcoming of AOTC is beyond silly and I would advise quitting it now before it escalates into a seriously stupid level. If the film is good enough to be widely accepted by all then EVERYBODY wins. It wouldn't have been down to simply the gripes of many fans but the fact that GL himself realised that the film wasn't quite what he intended and actually took steps to assure that AOTC didn't fall short as its predecessor. GL knows writing isn't one of his great strengths so he got a decent screenplay writer to sharpen the script and even out the over-use of silly humour etc. That's due to him, not the public outcry, if he felt he could do the job himself then no amount of gripe from fans, media associates and internet death threats is not going to sway him from writing the script by himself. He's Rich, he's got his own company and he couldn't care less what we all think otherwise he'd have issued DVD's of every SW film by now!

    Peace :)


  14. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    I absolutely hated TPM. Still, i enjoyed some things about it:

    1. The way Qui-gon stuck his saber thru the door.

    2. Watto. Ive said it before, but i found his "performance" to be the best in the whole dam "movie".

    3. The makeup for Darth Maul.

    4. Sebulba was pretty cool looking

    5. Palapatine was fine. No major complaints. Same with his other incarnation.

    there might be more, but i honestly cant think of anything at the moment...
  15. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    quote:

    The Guardian's film critic Peter Bradshaw called the film "extraordinarily objectionable" and said "nothing has the right to bore and disappoint us this much."

    that quote says it all.

    And Duckman, please, weve been over this "Gushers vs. irony/sarcasm" thing (well maybe it was DArthHomer). Without more experience with and understanding of these particular literary devices, quotes like the one above will just frustrate you...
  16. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    dahveed, if you want you can post these things in the gusher supplemental to the basher sanctuary right here. It's a place better suited to discussing itemized lists. Just offering a suggestion in case you wanted to start a discussion based on your list, since the name might throw you off.

    (hint: I posted my list in there)
  17. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
  18. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Shelly,--
    Shelley.

    --You just love putting words in my mouth to suit you don't you, when ever did I show that I have a problem believing that fans actually liked TPM?--
    Er...wha-?

    When did I or any other gusher ever show that we had a problem believing that some fans actually disliked TPM? Yet you have accused gushers of it, over and over.

    --If you bothered to READ my posts then you'd notice that I actually emphasize that as much fans who were dissapointed with TPM actually liked it aswell, so I have no idea what you're harping on about!--
    Neither do you, as you apparently failed to read the many posts I and others have written which acknowledge that some, even many, fans disliked TPM!

    --And as for thinking that I know what goes on in the minds of other fans, well I can ask the same question of YOU and why you think you know what I'm thinking?--
    I don't. Nor do I claim to. You were the one who started talking like you knew what I and others were thinking. Sorry if you don't like a taste of your own medicine.

    --I always state my opinion based on my experience, you seem to always think that means I'm telling you what I read in someones mind - Sorry, can't help you there, telepathy is not one of my skills so please refrain from accusing me of this in future--
    I will if you stop acting like you have telepathy.

    Your attempts to turn the debate back on me and claim total innocence aren't convincing, CeeJay.

    --and try not to get too personal in giving your opinions, everyone else has managed to do so!--
    Except you.

    --As for the Memo, that was indeed about the sales of merchandise but issued due to the fact that the film was regarded a dissapointment to many.--
    No it wasn't. It was issued due to the fact that the merchandise sales didn't live up to expectations.

    --If the film was as well recieved as some think, then that memo would not have existed.--
    What? The memo was issued due to the fact that merchandise sales didn't live up to expectations. What does that have to do with how well-received the film itself was?

    --If the sales of mercahandise was low, even though the film was great, then wouldn't GL be issuing a memo to Hasbro to make better quality merchandise instead of apologising for not producing a more widely appealing film?--
    He was apologising for the oversaturation and overlicensing of the merchandise.

    --All this Bashers "Winning" talk about the outcoming of AOTC is beyond silly and I would advise quitting it now before it escalates into a seriously stupid level. If the film is good enough to be widely accepted by all then EVERYBODY wins.--
    TPM was accepted by plenty of people, yet the media only listens to those who didn't accept it, and the people who didn't accept it continue to come here and whine about how AOTC darn well BETTER dazzle them or they're going to leave for the universally beloved and acclaimed LOTR! Nyah!

    --It wouldn't have been down to simply the gripes of many fans but the fact that GL himself realised that the film wasn't quite what he intended--
    None of the films were quite what he intended. Hence his constant tinkering with them.

    --and actually took steps to assure that AOTC didn't fall short as its predecessor.--
    He's taken steps to assure that the merchandise won't get as out of control.

    --GL knows writing isn't one of his great strengths so he got a decent screenplay writer to sharpen the script and even out the over-use of silly humour etc.--
    GL attempted to get people to help him with the script for TPM and people either turned him down or were too busy. I am sure that if bashers like AOTC's script better, they will credit themselves, just like they'll credit themselves if they like the movie overall better.

    --That's due to him, not the public outcry,--
    Wait...I'm lost here. You're saying that the movie wasn't well-received, and Lucas realizes that and is taking steps to ensure that AOTC will be better received. Now you're saying he asked for help on the script (one of the things bashers claim was TPM's biggest fl
  19. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --The Guardian's film critic Peter Bradshaw called the film "extraordinarily objectionable" and said "nothing has the right to bore and disappoint us this much."

    that quote says it all.--
    For you.

    Yet here you are, three years later, devoting your time and energy to a movie that was extraordinarily objectionable and bored and disappointed you beyond reason.

    Go figure.
  20. CeeJay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Talk about misguided and missing the point entirely! Shelley you really have a problem it seems in that you like to think that what ever I type you can imagine my intentions and how i'm acting from behind my keyboard - Uh, NO YOU CAN'T! Therefore when you start talking absolute rubbish about my ACTING like i know what everyone is thinking you simply come off as purely presumptious and quite arrogant! You are trying to make this really personal like the last time I got banned debating with you. All that talk about "MY PRECIOUS LORD OF THE RINGS" is such a sad attempt to instigate another heated debate by trying to hit me where you think it would hurt! - Bahhhhh, unlucky failed again! Like I said before, try not to keep it personal, we were having a civilised debate here without your basher/gusher antics which are quite stale now. If I post what I believe on this thread that's MY OPINION not MY MIND READING!

    You should realise by now that the question was about whether the media are trying to make TPM look as if all the fans were Dissapointed with it. No, not all the Fans were dissapointed with it, but many were and as I said before that percentage was large enough to make themselves heard in an unprecidented way. Not only that but the film wasn't as widely recieved by a lot of the puplic which is why the media reported its general dissapointment. GL acknowledged this, it was impossiple to ignore, it wasn't something that the media invented, it actually existed. Nor did I make it up for the sake of a debate with you over my mythical telapathic abilities.

    But the fact still remains that disgruntled fans did not sway GL from his course of actions when devloping AOTC, he does not care what we think, he's not making these films to please anyone but himself, if he did then he'd issue a questionare throughout the SW fan-club! He's making these films because HE wants to see them and if you want to come along for the ride then fine! The fact that he sent a memo apologising to Hasbro about the poor sales IS due to the fact that the film wasn't as well recieved as the others. He's not about to apologise for something that's not his fault, if Hasbro make bad toys then that's their problem but that's not what hit the sales. You have to understand that Lucas is a businessman and he owns a large percentage in Hasbro although NOT controlling interest. So he felt he had to apologise to his fellow boardmembers for failing at his end and issue a gaurantee that AOTC would do better for their sales. He wouldn't do that if he didn't feel responsible, it's a money issue not a disgruntled fan issue!

    If GL really gave a damn about what the fans (disgruntled or otherwise) want then we wouldn't have waithed 16 years for TPM, we wouldn't have waithed 2 years for one DVD, the original vesrsions of the OT would not have been deleted and the Ewoks simply would cease to exist. He's making HIS films the way HE wants and we want them OK? We want them so bad but some of us want them so good aswell, which is why we still debate this film from both sides of the fences, because whether we consider TPM DISSAPOINTING or NOT we remain caring SW Fans regardless. So don't try to make those who come here to debat TPM after being dissapointed by it look as sad as you think they are when you yourself come here to do the very same thing! If you didn't care what a dissapointed fan thinks then you'd be in bed by now!

    The above is MY OPINION and not fact derived from my alleged Mind-Reading abilities. Feel free to debate it as thus!
  21. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Nah, im just purging my soul (and memory) in preparation for "Attack of the Clones" which i think will be a much better film.

    And because TPM sucked like Battlefield Earth sucked.
  22. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    You could have fooled me 8-}




    [face_plain]


    ST
  23. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Uh, NO YOU CAN'T!--
    NO I CAN'T. And YOU CAN'T KNOW WHAT I OR OTHERS ARE THINKING EITHER. Yet YOU felt free to say, multiple times, that gushers have a problem accepting that many people didn't like TPM.

    --Therefore when you start talking absolute rubbish about my ACTING like i know what everyone is thinking you simply come off as purely presumptious and quite arrogant! You are trying to make this really personal like the last time I got banned debating with you.--
    For the 3,000th time, CeeJay, you were banned because you insulted me and others. Are you trying to duck responsibility for your own actions? Again I will ask you, does the sentence "I might as well explain astrophysics to an ant!" ring any bells? It should, because you wrote it.

    --All that talk about "MY PRECIOUS LORD OF THE RINGS" is such a sad attempt to instigate another heated debate by trying to hit me where you think it would hurt! - Bahhhhh, unlucky failed again!--
    Awww, shucks. I really, really wanted to hurt you.

    --Like I said before, try not to keep it personal, we were having a civilised debate here without your basher/gusher antics which are quite stale now.--
    Really? I don't consider some of the posts on this thread terribly civilised.

    --If I post what I believe on this thread that's MY OPINION not MY MIND READING!--
    Good to know. And I do likewise, but you accuse me of acting like I can read your thoughts.

    --You should realise by now that the question was about whether the media are trying to make TPM look as if all the fans were Dissapointed with it. No, not all the Fans were dissapointed with it, but many were and as I said before that percentage was large enough to make themselves heard in an unprecidented way.--
    Your proof? Aside from the media, whose bias is the subject of this thread, trumpeting their and only their comments?

    --Not only that but the film wasn't as widely recieved by a lot of the puplic which is why the media reported its general dissapointment.--
    Your proof?

    --GL acknowledged this,--
    Where?

    --it was impossiple to ignore,--
    Because the media jumped all over it and hyped up the negative reaction. It continues to do so, and continues to ignore the many, many, MANY people who liked it.

    --it wasn't something that the media invented, it actually existed.--
    The media did not invent it. The media did, however, hype it up while ignoring the positive response.

    --Nor did I make it up for the sake of a debate with you over my mythical telapathic abilities.--
    I didn't say you did.

    --But the fact still remains that disgruntled fans did not sway GL from his course of actions when devloping AOTC, he does not care what we think, he's not making these films to please anyone but himself, if he did then he'd issue a questionare throughout the SW fan-club! He's making these films because HE wants to see them and if you want to come along for the ride then fine!--
    OK, I guess. I always thought that he, like every other artist, hoped people would enjoy and like his art.

    --The fact that he sent a memo apologising to Hasbro about the poor sales IS due to the fact that the film wasn't as well recieved as the others.--
    No it isn't, CeeJay. It is due to the fact that the sales for merchandise were poor.

    --He's not about to apologise for something that's not his fault, if Hasbro make bad toys then that's their problem but that's not what hit the sales. You have to understand that Lucas is a businessman and he owns a large percentage in Hasbro although NOT controlling interest. So he felt he had to apologise to his fellow boardmembers for failing at his end and issue a gaurantee that AOTC would do better for their sales. He wouldn't do that if he didn't feel responsible, it's a money issue not a disgruntled fan issue!--
    I'm not sure what you're saying...you seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you say he's apologizing to Hasbro because he realizes fans didn't like the movie. Then you're saying it's not a disgruntled fan issue.

    --If GL really gave a damn about what the fans
  24. CeeJay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Just how young are you...?
  25. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Older than you I can see 8-}



    ST
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