TPM's Appeal: Did the Media Make it Appear that ALL SW Fans Were Dissapointed With It?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Apr 13, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. CeeJay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    I seriously doubt that by that comment alone!
  2. CeeJay Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Okay old and mature guy, the word you are trying again and again to convery is "Failure" NOT "failer" (Word does not exist) and were I to argue the way a certain person does and ask you to prove that there are more so called "Gushers" than "Bashers" could you do so? If not than you are apparently by a certain persons rationale, who are you to make that statement as if you know that for fact? What incredibly rescorceful and trusted information service told you what the rest of the worlds media got so amzingly wrong? How is you statement so full of fact and mines so full of folly?

    This debate can no longer continue since you apparently have your own facts which you believe in from lord-knows-where and totally distrust any other well established news organization! Me I'll stick to tried and trusted BBC world service!

    Nite nite kids!


    Edit - I see you've retracted you're last post to correct it, hmmmmm! Doesn't matter, this isn't worth debating anymore. The facts are pretty clear for those who wish to see them and that much is certain otherwise we wouldn't be talking right now!
  3. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Are you talking to me?


    Well, that doesn't matter who you're talking to. Because trying to argue with someone about mispelling a word is a LAME argument, by any standards.

    LAME [face_plain]



    ST



  4. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Just how young are you...?--
    If you're asking me, I'm 29. I'll be 30 in a few weeks. But I fail to see what age has to do with it.
  5. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Okay old and mature guy, the word you are trying again and again to convery--
    Convey.

    --is "Failure" NOT "failer" (Word does not exist)--
    Like your spelling is perfect, CeeJay.

    --and were I to argue the way a certain person does and ask you to prove that there are more so called "Gushers" than "Bashers" could you do so?--
    Probably not. But what does it matter? To argue the way you do, that isn't the point of this thread. The point of this thread is whether the media made it seem like everyone was disappointed in TPM. You insisted that the media only reported what it saw. I and others countered that the media presented a very one-sided view, paying attention only to the negative reaction. You then implied, if not outright said, that gushers can't cop to the fact that some people didn't like TPM, although that isn't true and I think you know it.

    --If not than you are apparently by a certain persons----
    Person's.

    --rationale, who are you to make that statement as if you know that for fact? What incredibly rescorceful--
    Resourceful.

    --and trusted information service told you what the rest of the worlds--
    World's. And I think Ultimate pointed to polls by BBC and Gallup.

    --media got so amzingly--
    Amazingly.

    --wrong?--
    The media only presented one side of the story.

    --This debate can no longer continue since you apparently have your own facts which you believe in from lord-knows-where--
    Ultimate got info from Gallup and BBC, and you apparently disregarded it. Are we to assume that facts are only real facts to you if you agree with them?

    and totally distrust any other well established news organization!--
    Much like you distrust Gallup and BBC polls, and only quote from sources you agree with?

    --Me I'll stick to tried and trusted BBC world service!--
    I thought it was IMDB.

    --Edit - I see you've retracted you're--
    Your.

    --The facts are pretty clear for those who wish to see them--
    They certainly are, although you choose to ignore facts you don't agree with or which don't support your viewpoint.

    --and that much is certain otherwise we wouldn't be talking right now!--
    Obviously. This applies to you more than you think.
  6. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    <reads past 10 posts>
    Wow. This is a hairball.
  7. Aranos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2001
    star 1
    Look,
    Shelley and those other council members intent on defending the recognised talent of GL, his creation and there subsequent contribution of our lives, I and others like me are able to distinguish between a good film and a bad film the fact that we do not come to the same conclusions as yourself does not mean that we have been adversely influenced by the media / critics this is the point in which I believe CJ and others have been trying to make, all be it distracted by your at points very confrontational tone which only aim seems to be putting peoples backs up to highlight your own particular view point. ?Shame on you, more I expect from a council member?

    Disagreements regarding reliable sources aside, as this focuses the debate on side issues and opens up the issue to silly comments and company advertising, I believe that the earnest opinions of life long SW fans has some weight in this discussion the fact that these fans have different persuasions ?gusher? or ?basher? only illustrates the point that you cannot please everybody all of the time.

    Many true Jedi where let down by TPM this is a fact not a statistic whether more people liked TPM than hated it is not the point. The media played its part, drawing attention to those loyal fans let down by their experience?is this not what the media is meant to do? The media reflected what was happening, as they did before the film was released by showing excited fans. We can spend time calling into question the reasons behind the reasons that CNN, ABC, BBC, NBC and everybody else ran stories of Post TPM disappointed fans. But are you saying that this stopped others going to see the movie or buying it on DVD? I doubt it.
    Did the media paint a picture, I can only speak for the UK in which I can say News reporting is even-handed and respected world wide?whether the same can be said for US TV is another debate for another day.

    Where the anger expressed by many fans like myself comes from is the seemingly wilful attempt not to please anybody, just make money out of a large film franchise empire and toy makers dream.
    I do not disagree that some people liked TPM, as this thread shows both corners of the debate, nor do I wish to disregard or denigrate there views as I believe that all are entitled but my views and many others like me do not share in the positive view that SW has grown, matured and become that which it could have been?. not just because ST-TPM-ASF-TNE and every other council member missed a keystroke or two.?Low blow CJ?

    This I lay squarely at the feet of GL and none other I agree with many of the points that CeeJay and Duckman has made particularly in regard to GL cinema stature creating a false bubble around him, his self styled make believe ?Jackson? world on Skywalker ranch removed him from the public and his contemporary?s look at Spielberg and how he developed as a true master of the film medium. These are valid points and yes the media has picked up on them and yes to some degree utilises these points against those more enthusiastic members of the GL fan club?and so they should because this is the real world and in the real world a bad movie is a bad movie, bad acting is a bad acting no matter how many special effects you put in it.

    And the simple fact that we are here debating this I believe proves my point. The fact that many have to work so hard and go to such lengths to re-enforce a misguided self-belief about one film raises questions in my mind?but that is just my opinion.
    GL didn?t take the hints after SW: ESB and failed to subsequently address the most important flaws in ROTJ and TPM but my honest hope is that GL rediscovers what it was that we ALL liked and SW: AOTC is great?
    I?ll find out on the 15th of MAY in London?

    Soory, in addition to this post read page 5 for my previous 2 cents worth..
  8. Duckman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2000
    star 4
    Yeah, on reflection, the media weren't unduly harsh to Lucas and TPM. They just pointed out the film was an okay kidflick, nothing more.
    Now, the clear bias in this forum against my intelligent posts is another matter . . .

    :p
  9. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Where the anger expressed by many fans like myself comes from is the seemingly wilful attempt not to please anybody, just make money out of a large film franchise empire and toy makers dream.--
    And that is just your opinion. I do not agree that Lucas set out to anger fans or to just make one long toy commercial. The media focused only on the comments from you and people who agree with you.

    --I do not disagree that some people liked TPM, as this thread shows both corners of the debate, nor do I wish to disregard or denigrate there views as I believe that all are entitled but my views and many others like me do not share in the positive view that SW has grown, matured and become that which it could have been?. not just because ST-TPM-ASF-TNE and every other council member missed a keystroke or two.?Low blow CJ?

    This I lay squarely at the feet of GL and none other I agree with many of the points that CeeJay and Duckman has made particularly in regard to GL cinema stature creating a false bubble around him, his self styled make believe ?Jackson? world on Skywalker ranch removed him from the public and his contemporary?s look at Spielberg and how he developed as a true master of the film medium. These are valid points--
    And I don't agree with them.

    --and yes the media has picked up on them--
    And only them.

    --and yes to some degree utilises these points against those more enthusiastic members of the GL fan club?--
    To some degree? Try a very big degree.

    --and so they should because this is the real world and in the real world a bad movie is a bad movie, bad acting is a bad acting no matter how many special effects you put in it.--
    Now you are proclaiming your opinion as fact. It is not fact. It is your opinion. And your opinion and those who shared it were the ONLY people who the media paid any attention to.

    --And the simple fact that we are here debating this I believe proves my point. The fact that many have to work so hard and go to such lengths to re-enforce a misguided self-belief about one film--
    There you go again, proclaiming your opinion as fact, implying that those who liked TPM are "misguided." This is contradicting your earlier statement where you say you respect others' viewpoints. You can dress up your post in as many reasonable-sounding words and tones as you want, but at bottom, you clearly do not respect Lucas or the people who liked TPM.

    --raises questions in my mind?but that is just my opinion.
    GL didn?t take the hints after SW: ESB and failed to subsequently address the most important flaws in ROTJ and TPM--
    Looks like he is addressing those flaws.

    --but my honest hope is that GL rediscovers what it was that we ALL liked and SW:--
    Now you're speaking for everyone? This is great.

    --AOTC is great?
    I?ll find out on the 15th of MAY in London?--
    And if you don't like it, will you move on or hang around here complaining for another few years?
  10. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Yeah, on reflection, the media weren't unduly harsh to Lucas and TPM. They just pointed out the film was an okay kidflick, nothing more.--
    You have GOT to be kidding, Duckman. It had a vendetta against the movie, and continues to.
  11. LUH-3417 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2001
    star 4
    I agree that the media probably reported on the people that bashed it more than liked it.

    i mean, the freakin movie made 400 something million, that is hardly a failure.

    But there is one thing we should remember, and that it, even SW fans who hate the flick and bash it will see it at least 3 times.

    It is truly hard to tell what is what with a SW flick, anyone agree?

    I had many creative and thoughtful probs with it as well as liked a lot of it, but still saw it 3 times in the theater and bought the DVD.
  12. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I rather doubt the movie made that much money and sold that many DVDs simply because fans who hated it saw it 3 times and bought the DVD. Although that's what the media wanted us to believe. Each time the movie proves to be a success it rushes to the scene with "explanations" which go something like, "Oh, people really hated it; they're just buying the tape for the sake of completeness/buying the DVD because it's the first SW movie available on DVD." Or the telecast got good ratings but "ER" beat it out for the week. Well, duh, "ER" beats out everything for the week, unless it's a rerun.

    TPM's successes are downplayed and only the negative is reported, and emphasized.

    I don't doubt that many had creative problems with it. I have some myself. But the media did NOT provide balanced reporting. It seldom does these days. It had a serious vendetta against TPM, and continues to have one. It intentionally misquotes Lucas, Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, and ignores all positive stuff said about TPM. Any positive stuff said about AOTC is always accompanied with some swipe at TPM, and usually at Lucas as well.

    The media also loves rivalries. "Entertainment Weekly" is doing its damndest to pit AOTC against "Spiderman," and of course it's rooting for "Spiderman" because it has a grudge against SW (when it's not exploiting SW for its own publicity purposes). LOTR and "Harry Potter" were pitted against each other, with LOTR taking precedence, although I've met several people who actually thought HP was the superior film.
  13. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    One of the most imporant thing to do is to look at who actually OWNS the media source. For example- Foxnewschannel has a stake in the movie.. since it is part of the 20th Century Fox conglamerate. CNN, Time and ETW are owned by Time-Warner...And they have have agendas of their own. (although Time seems to be a bit more fair, because of their reputation)

    The fact of the matter is, we are not arguing weather or not TPM was a good movie. What we were arguing was weather or not the Media is accurately describing the fan base.
  14. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    quote:

    although I've met several people who actually thought HP was the superior film.

    My 10 year old nephew would agree with them.
  15. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I've always found the argument that TPM's disappointing toy sales showed it wasn't a well-liked film rather specious reasoning. If people were that turned off, then TPM would never have got the repeat business it did at the cinema. I think it's more likely that there was simply too much merchandise out there, and no one other than serious collectors could be bothered to buy it all. Before May 99, the demand for SW stuff exceeded the supply because the market was aimed mainly at collectors. But I think Lucas Licencing shifted it too far the other way for the release of TPM.
    I hear Titanic was a disappointment on the merchandise front, too, but I doubt that bothered Cameron much :)
  16. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --although I've met several people who actually thought HP was the superior film.

    My 10 year old nephew would agree with them.--
    The people I'm referring to are in their 20s or 30s. FYI.
  17. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    quote:

    But there is one thing we should remember, and that it, even SW fans who hate the flick and bash it will see it at least 3 times.

    You just described me and a helluvalot of other people. I saw it once when it first opened, then i saw it again a few weeks later just to give it another chance, and finally i watched the DVD that i got as a b-day present (lousy crumbum probably picked it up at Wal-mart on the way to the party).

    TPM had the largest built-in/guaranteed audience in the history of commercial filmmaking. AND some of this audience had been waiting decades to see this stinker.
    Taken with the (seemingly obvious)phenomenon described by me and an earlier poster, the raw box office numbers simply cant prove what you so desperately want it to. The fact is, TPM shouldve been Titanic.

    Not that im dismissing the bo. Given what we now know about the audience and the "movie", even a preliminary analysis of the data suggests serious dissatisfaction within at least one major demographic (adult male fans). On the other hand, im sure the pre-adolescents LOVED "that cool jarjar cartoon".
  18. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    quote:

    The people I'm referring to are in their 20s or 30s. FYI.

    I know, silly.
  19. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    dahveed72, I sent you a PM. Did you get it? Also, you like to quote people (which is a good thing), but sometimes it's hard to tell where the quote ends and your reply begins. Mind if I help?

    Use a before the text you're quoting, and a afterwards.
  20. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    thanks dude. im not really a newbie anymore, so i guess i should learn the ropes..
  21. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    i didnt get a PM, whatever that is. Private message?
  22. Malthus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 1999
    star 4
    Yeah it's a private message. Look near the top of the screen (above the thread stuff) and you will see you've got some PMs :)
  23. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --TPM had the largest built-in/guaranteed audience in the history of commercial filmmaking. AND some of this audience had been waiting decades to see this stinker.
    Taken with the (seemingly obvious)phenomenon described by me and an earlier poster,--
    What's this obvious phenomenon?

    --the raw box office numbers simply cant prove what you so desperately want it to. The fact is, TPM shouldve been Titanic.--
    On what are you basing this "fact"? And the one or two polls that have been quoted simply cannot prove what you so desperately want them to: that everyone hated TPM and its box office numbers are only due to people who hated it nonetheless going back and seeing it multiple times. You seem to think that because you did, for some mysterious reason, and a "helluva lot" (how many is that? And who did you ask--fellow bashers?) of people you know did as well, that that proves something.

    --Not that im dismissing the bo. Given what we now know about the audience and the "movie", even a preliminary analysis of the data--
    What preliminary analysis are you referring to?

    --suggests serious dissatisfaction within at least one major demographic (adult male fans).--
    Post proof or retract.

    --On the other hand, im sure the pre-adolescents LOVED "that cool jarjar cartoon".--
    Possibly. Now can you please post proof of how adult male fans are deeply dissatisfied?
  24. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    No problem. In the meantime, is this (the fact that a significant percentage of adult male fans were disappointed in TPM)really news to you? I think ill choose to believe youre just being contrary for the sake of debate.
  25. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Oh and the phenomenon i was referring to was the fact that many fans who hated TPM still ended up seeing it multiple times. Dont tell me THIS is also a revelation for you?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.