Transformers Discussion Thread (Transformers: Dark of the Moon)

Discussion in 'Archive: Your Jedi Council Community' started by Jedi_Master_Conor, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    Well, I'd say Shockwave has his desires when it comes to leading the Decepticons.

    Now on to Starscream. Other than being a meaningless character, I've come to the conclusion that they got his character wrong as well. Any characterisation he has is a nod to fans anyway, but it basically proves the Orci and the other dude just didn't know their transformers that well. IF you notice, in every seen Starscream's in, he grovels to Megatron. Almost in fear. You really don't see any ambition of wanting to subplant Megatron and rule. Now granted Starscream is hardly a character, if a character at all, and clearly the movies don't focus on the villains enough for any of them to be developed in anyway.

    I'm just pointing out that the nod we fans were given is also a discredit to the character of Starscream as well. Starscream would do anything to save his own ass, but he never really groveled to Megatron, and he'd be the first to call him a moron if he screwed up. Any other time he was pretty much being a smartass.

    Starscream in a nutshell

    and here

    Those two scenes clearly show what Starscream is all about, nothing of it is represented in the movies.It's just sad that we could have had proper portrayals of these characters on screen, and I'm sure people would have loved it.
  2. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    I could have sworn it was Starscream who took the final shot at Megatron in the first movie...

    But since there was an entire squadron of identical F-22s there, with all the fast pace and camera jumping around it might have been someone else.
  3. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Not that I am apt to defend any work involved in this series but were Orci and Kurtzman even involved in the third film? I thought they left after the last one, and can't seem to find credit for anyone other than Ehren Kruger.
  4. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    They weren't involved, but the same characterization was used.
  5. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Which might lead one to believe that such characterization was the product of someone else's influence.
  6. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    Even after seeing the two clips linked above, the G1 Starscream I remember was ambitious and traitorous yes. But when his plots collapsed - as they usually did - and the poodoo hit the fan he turned into a sniveling, sycophantic coward just like his Bayformers counterpart. Truth be told, regardless of his worth (if any) as a front line soldier, either version of Megatron was an idiot for keeping him around for so long.
  7. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5

    Yeah I never got that part. In "Starscream's Brigade", Megatron first exiles him to Guadalcanal for trying to take over.

    But Starscream finds the remnants of the Pacific war and creates the Combaticons, then leads them against Megatron.


    After everything is said and done....Megatron exiles Starscream AGAIN....but this time on an asteroid....

    But he doesnt tie him up or anything. He's just standing on an asteroid shaking his fist saying he will have revenge.



    I honestly think that Starscream was Megatron's little brother or something....and their parents' dying wish was for Megatron not to kill him. Hence, once Megs "died" and came back as Galvatron, all promises were off.
  8. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    [face_laugh]

    No, I think the answer is quite simple: it was a cartoon and you couldn't have anyone being murdered by anyone (even if they were robots) on made-for-kids TV back then. So we had to wait for the movie to come out to finally see some robot-on-robot maiming and killing. And I guess it was as good an opportunity as you'd get to have Megatron finally give Starscream the...punishment...he so richly deserved.
  9. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    and then Starscream's ghost came back to haunt Galvetron..... [face_plain]
  10. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    He never groveled like he did in the movies though. I mean if the movie version of Starscream was all you knew, then you'd pretty much come to the conclusion that Starscream was a suckup and nothing more.
  11. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    Starscream's ghost transcends time and space.




    And the more I think about it, the more Sentinel Prime's "On Cybertron, we were GODS" doesnt make any sense at all.

    Being godlike would mean you have extroardinary powers or abilities compared to someone else (Superman compared to Jimmy Olsen), or a notable physiological or intellectual difference (C-3PO compared to Ewoks)

    If Sentinel would have gone into "I'M A GOD!" mode on Cybertron, they would have declared him insane and locked him away.
  12. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    I don't want to try to be the Bayformers Devil's Advocate (why would anyone?), but perhaps there's a deeper meaning behind Sentinel's god complex. Perhaps at one time ALL Bayformers (be it Autobot or Decepticon) did like to lord over or otherwise dismiss other species they might have considered inferior to their own, even to the point they might have enslaved them. And in that aspect, as masters over slaves, Bayformers might have considered themselves literal "gods" just as those lesser species saw them; just as man might have seen those Primes that came to ancient Earth as per RotF. Maybe Sentinel Prime did have a change of heart once regarding this and instilled that lesson on his pupil: Freedom IS the right of all sentient beings. But once you're deemed a god, that particular bug's bite somewhat lingers, which is what might have led to Sentinel's corruption and fall.
  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I'd agree that Starscream's survival in the TV show was mostly due to the can't-kill nature of the show (much like all those parachutes in GI Joe or the A-Team's inability to actually shoot people).

    But, there's a deeper element to why Megatron kept Starscream around- in both the early show and some of the comics you clearly see that Megatron and Starscream have something of a Sith master/apprentice relationship.

    Megatron is teaching Starscream how to overcome his character faults and be worthy to rule the Decepticons. Starscream, meanwhile, is willing to take paths and actions that Megatron either wouldn't or simply doesn't have the patience for.

    Scene from More Than Meets the Eye

    At the same time, he wants Starscream to have the ambition to want to take over command (which he has in abundance). Much like how a Sith Master wants his Sith Apprentice to eventually try to kill him and take his place as Master (or fail in the process and prove he wasn't worthy of his title).

    Megatron wants Starscream to try to replace him, but if he isn't able to succeed then 'Screamer is going down.


    And that's not even going into the complexities of Starscream's character when you factor in his history with Skyfire/Jetfire and the character arc that generates. The Bayverse version is a sad, barely visible shadow of what it could be.

    The current TV series has had a pretty decent schemer Starscream take that you could see being worthy to lead, while his ego gets in the way. Plus it's had a couple instant classic-lines.

    Scene One

    Scene Two

    "My mistake, Commander Starscream- but I've learned my lesson, and paid the price..."
    "IT. IS. LORRRRRRRRRD!"

    And, of course, the result when Megatron returns:

    Scene Three

    (which, neatly enough, directly brings up the "letting Starscream go was a mistake" issue we've been talking about

    though it's funny how much this essentially mirrors the end of DOTM, only with Starscream in for Sentinel)
  14. DarthHutt Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2000
    star 5
    Box-office actuals (through Monday)...

    Dom: $180.65m
    Int'l: $237.36m
    TOTAL: $418.01m
  15. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    LOL. That's the first time I've noticed the John Wayne influence in Prime's voice.

    Finally got to watch the entire movie. I had originally written a longer review, but deleted it, and will just say that I'm very glad that this franchise is over for the time being.
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Yeah, early on there's a heavy John Wayne influence, but but time they hit the movie I think Cullen had toned it back some. And, for the live action movies they pretty much went straight "Voltron narrator".
  17. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    I don't remember his voice being that John Wayne heavy in later episodes. Cullen must have found a middle ground with what he wanted to do while the decision was being made to pick up the show after the pilot. I know he based his character on Wayne, but that there is near impersonation.

    Pretty cool though. Also like the trash talk.
  18. slimybug Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 5
    I think I'm going to go back and watch The Secret of Omega Supreme, The Search for Alpha Trion, The Key to Vector Sigma, War Dawn, and the Five Faces of Doom, which are the big episodes that tell a lot of the backstory/mythology of the Transformers.

    I will also be busy not having sex, because I'm watching 1980s children's programming.

    Slimy!
  19. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    Jaysis...I loved the series back in the day because I was a dumb kid that didn't know any better, but I can't stand watching any single episode now. So my advice to you is...stop watching and have sex, young man! :p
  20. DarthNotsonice Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    star 5
    Peter Cullen has stated in multiple interviews he fashioned the Optimus prime voice after John Wayne and his older brother.

    As for Bayformers 3, better than Bayformers 2 : Electric Boogaloo, but that's like saying a staph infection is better than an amputation.:oops:
  21. hear+soul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 6
    a) what's her name may be the hottest woman on URF. She's like a lion cub! haha. (nip/tuck reference- also factual)

    b) Michael Bay sees plot as a vehicle between action scenes/moments

    c) those action scenes/moments are often awesome

    d) the other stuff tends to not be

    e) Michael Bay is a decent director when he doesn't get to do whatever he wants (see Transformers- the first one). That's why I think these last two have been ridiculous + long. The first one he was trying to create an understandable, marketable, good movie so he could make two more. He was trying to achieve something, not just.... throw people out of airplanes for no apparent reason. lol.

    I can't believe Iron Hide bit it again. And once again he didn't even do that much overall. I guess he got more/as many moments as Jazz.

    Why did Bay have to create these new characters? Why not continue going back to the well of ideas that is the cartoon? Although some of them were cool.

    Boy those "wreckers" were absolutely useless.

    string > optimus prime, apparently

    Thank God Tyrese and his retired friends fired that rocket at the south-east tower!!! oh, wait.. well at least it provided some comic relief!! oh, wait...

    nah that one guy was kinda funny.

    edit:

    What a wasted opportunity with Soundwave and NOTHING COMING OUT OF HIS CHEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  22. hear+soul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 6
    sry for the double post:

    Exactly. Maybe THAT's the real reason I think the first film is so much better than these two. It's just more concise- because it has to be.
  23. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    Too many reasons to disagree with that... I'll only point out that Optimus would still be hanging from those cables like a ******bag if the Wreckers didn't come to the rescue.

    On a separate note, it looks like Shia may have done a number on Megan Fox's marriage for not keeping his trap close

    http://perezhilton.com/2011-07-06-shia-labeouf-damage-megan-fox-marriage

    8-} [face_skull]
  24. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Oh, that's ok. He couldn't get laid if he had a hundred dollar bill hanging out of his zipper. :p
  25. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    To be fair, SHE is the one who did a number on her marriage when she consented to fling with LaBoeuf when her relationship with Green wasnt totally over.

    LaBoeuf is just the honest idiot.