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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

JCC Transgender, nonbinary, genderqueer

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Dobrolous, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I was going to defend this general type of humor until I realized it's not quite necessary. For me, the humor is about defying masculine expectations, not laughing at queer folks (I understand that it adds to the pressure, anyway). Since a man dressing as a woman is not needed to defy and laugh at masculine expectations, it can be cut out. There are other examples of defying masculine expectations that can be used.

    I could get into why this type of humor appeals to me and so many guys, why it's comforting, but it's not really on topic. Suffice to say, get rid of extreme expectations for masculinity, and you get rid of the main source for this genre of humor.
     
  2. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Well this is ****ing scary. Trump has created a Conscience and Religious Freedom Division in the Department of Health & Human Services. Its stated purpose is to enforce "laws and regulations that protect conscience and prohibit coercion on issues such as abortion and assisted suicide (among others) in HHS-funded or conducted programs and activities." Any guesses as to how that's going to affect the trans community? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller . . . ?

    Commentary: Trump’s New Religious Freedom Division Is a License to Discriminate
     
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  3. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I love how the page puts a picture of a female muslim doctor, as if that's going to trick the left into suddenly supporting it.

    This is absolutely going to be something that harms trans people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  4. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    A National Geographic documentary, "Gender Revolution: A Journey With Katie Couric" has just been put on Netflix. It's a really good primer on what it means to be transgender, nonbinary, or intersex. Recommended for all your clueless relatives.
     
  5. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
  6. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Somebody in the best friends club thread (I think it was Rylo Ken, but I can't be bothered to check) said that they wished they could experience gender euphoria. I just had Shower Thots(tm) today about how to explain what gender euphoria (and dysphoria) feel like.

    Gender dysphoria feels like this: Imagine you are at a fancy wedding reception. The men are in black tie, the women are in glittering gowns. You are wearing an enormous yellow rubber duckie costume. You don't remember putting on the costume, and you don't want to be wearing it, but for some reason you cannot take it off. Everyone around you assumes that you like wearing the duckie costume, because they all came in things that they like wearing. They all treat you as someone who likes wearing yellow rubber duckie costumes to weddings, and when you say, "No, really, I'm not like this. This isn't what I wanted to come in," they don't believe you, or look at you like you're crazy.

    You want to hide in the bathroom and refuse to come out. You want to go home. You want to avoid all contact with other human beings until you can somehow take the duckie costume off. Perhaps you try to get around the duckie costume by hauling some formal wear on over it, but it looks all wrong, and offends people. They tell you that you are not a formal wear person, you are a duckie costume person, and it's sick to insist otherwise. Your attempts to dress in something more appropriate cause your mother to cry, and your father to order you to leave. The baker even refuses to give you cake. Everyone insists that you must wear the duckie costume until you die.

    Gender euphoria feels like taking the duckie costume off. It's an experience of overwhelming relief that you no longer have to wear something that entirely misrepresents you. It is joy when people say, "Hey, you look pretty good in formal wear. You were right to take that duckie costume off."

    I don't think you can really experience gender euphoria unless you have experienced gender dysphoria for a long time. People who are fine with their assigned gender generally don't think about it at all. Their gender is just there, like the air they breathe. I sort of wish that everyone could experience gender euphoria too, because it's fun. I recommend it. But I wouldn't wish the associated dysphoria on anyone.

    /PSA
     
  7. a star war

    a star war Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 4, 2016
    I felt it one time for like a second. So that was fun.
     
  8. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
  9. a star war

    a star war Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 4, 2016
    I'm celebrating by staying in bed all day and not leaving my room.
     
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  10. Adrian the Cool

    Adrian the Cool Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    There are only two genders - male and female. If someone identifies as the other one, I'm totally fine with it. Not so much with new genders from the internet (namely tumblr), like "astralgender" (a gender somehow related to space) and what not, because they don't exist and obviously you can't belong to something that doesn't exist. Luckily, "SJWs" only a yelling minority, everybody I know on the internet just makes fun of them and I've never met somebody whom I had to ask about his "their" pronouns in real life.

    Though, what bothers me is that some people ruin languages with grammatical gender to be more "inclusive" or "neutral". F.e. they always add female suffixes to male nouns and nounesses that describe people, though the male form can already mean people of both genders depending on context, or xey make up new pronouns. I'm happy that in my native language, a door is female, its or "her" knob male and a girl genderless. Other languages don't even include a word for "it" or use a different male and female "you".
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  11. Pensivia

    Pensivia Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    A teen who is a very close friend of the family recently came out to me as nonbinary. I am in my forties and am someone who always thought of herself as very socially "liberal"/open-minded (always thought of myself as a good LGBT "ally", etc.), but I see now that there's a whole type of minority experience I was pretty much unaware of. So I'm reading and watching and learning a lot.

    I found this 30-min documentary from CBS news (their 24/7 streaming network) from March 2017. I did a quick skim of the back pages of this thread and don't think it has been posted (apologies if it has already been and I missed it), but I found it a really helpful intro to understanding a little more about the nonbinary/gender non-conforming "spectrum." It really helps to introduce a variety of individuals on a "personal" level and what their various experiences have been with their senses of their own gender identities.

    "Gender: The Space Between"
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/non-binary-transgender-you-havent-heard-of/

    There's some text on that page as well, but it's not a full transcript, so there's a lot more in the video itself for those who are interested (and there's stuff in the text that isn't in the video)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
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  12. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I've actually learned a lot recently on this topic after I met an acquaintance who is nonbinary. Originally I thought the "stuff in between" was nonsense done for attention, but the gf taught me about it all, why people use pansexual instead of bisexual (pan includes the genders in between), etc. It's really fascinating stuff.
    Prove it.

    A couple points.

    1) You claim to be accepting of some transgender stuff, but then you start an attack on pronouns, which makes me suspicious. Pretending to be okay with transpeople in order to make your attacks on other genderqueer people seem "reasonable" is pretty ****ty.

    2) How are languages "ruined?" Languages are constantly changing as time goes on. What's wrong with making language inclusive?
     
  13. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    As of today, the World Health Organization has announced that they will drop "gender dysphoria" from its list of mental disorders, instead replacing it with "gender incongruence" in the category "sexual health conditions." This is being done to remove the stigma of mental illness from being transgender. No idea yet how this is going to impact the process of getting trans-related health care. Will you still have to get letters from psyche professionals to have gender-confirming surgery? Not a clue. Still, this seems a step in the right direction.

     
  14. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    I'm reminded of the intro to What It Feels Like For A Girl by Madonna:

    Girls can wear jeans
    And cut their hair short
    Wear shirts and boots
    Cause it's okay to be a boy

    But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading
    Cause you think being a girl is degrading
     
  15. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    https://thinkprogress.org/atlantic-jesse-singal-transgender-kids-54123639b640/

    Idk what Jesse Singal's problem is but it's become pretty clear he's obsessed with transpeople and queer people in general, and in not a good way. The Atlantic doesn't at all seem apologetic about publishing his latest article or misgendering someone three times on their cover. Is there actually any way to fight media when it does this?
     
  16. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    You see the bit on twitter about how he concealed that several of his sources were from a terf group?
     
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  17. Ava G.

    Ava G. Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2016
    @Lord Vivec Convince enough people to re-educate the publisher on the issue, I guess.
     
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  18. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I did. The fact that he completely hid that shows his goals here.

    He's absolute trash posing as a liberal. There's a great jezebel article about him that I can't link because of language.
     
  19. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000

    I admit that I'm a little torn on this. Because to me, because being transgendered is an innate thing that comes from your brain, it's a condition of the mind. And like all other mental conditions, there is an established treatment.... In this case, the treatment is varying degrees of outward and inward transition to presenting as your correct gender. In my understanding, that is something that does relieve mental anguish, depression, etc. associsted with the mental state of gender disphoria.

    I can understand why many trans people would not want to be classified as having a psychological condition. But to be honest, I think that largely is a knock on the stupid stigmas we have surrounding psychological disorders.

    Essentially, doesn't this change sort of imply that calling something a psychological disorder is inherently negative? I don't think it is. I think it's actually kind of insulting to those of us with other psychological disorders to imply that if you call something a psych disorder, that's dirty and bad because psychological problems are bad.

    Basically what I'm saying is... I do see the mental feeling of being stuck in the wrong gendered body to be an inherent mental disorder. I just don't think that should be viewed as a stigma or bad. It's no different than having diabetes. The treatment for that is insulin. The treatment for gender disphoria is transitioning your presentation.

    Am I wrong to think this way? I hope this isn't offensive.

    Finally, I would worry that this would actually make it harder for people to get their gender services treated under existing mental health insurance plans, at least in the US.
     
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  20. Ava G.

    Ava G. Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Part of it is the stigma, but I think another reason most trans people dislike gender dysphoria being viewed as a mental illness is that those in support of "corrective therapy" can argue the condition is treatable with some counseling and maybe a few pills (not hormones).

    I personally view it as a mental illness via prenatal neurological condition, but recognize they want to be careful with the wording.
     
  21. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    A little bit.

    So what's being removed from being considered a mental illness is "gender incongruence," which is the state of being transgender (being one gender while one's body is of another). Instead, that's going to be considered a sexual health issue, which will insure that it's still covered. Gender dysphoria, the distress caused by being transgender, is still however going to be considered a mental illness, and the best treatment for that is still transitioning.

    Since not every transperson feels gender dysphoria, this stops every transperson from being considered mentally ill, while still ensuring every transperson gets access to the medical care they need.
     
  22. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Well, you can look at it that way. If you do, the remedy for gender dysphoria is to change the mind to suit the body, with counseling, drugs, and what have you. We've tried that since the invention of psychology, and it hasn't worked particularly well. You can also look at the state of being transgender as a physical condition, in which the genitalia and secondary sex characteristics can be changed to fit the mind. This is the direction we're heading in. (Not that every trans person wants every possible surgery, or even any medical treatment at all. Still, they should have access to these things as options.)

    As things have stood up to now, transition-related medical care is the only type of medicine in which there has been a mental-health hoop to jump through in order to get access. (According to WPATH 7, a letter from one psychologist is required for hormones and chest surgery, letters from two are required for genital surgery.) If a cis woman in menopause wants to take hormone pills, whether for birth control or menopause or whatever, nobody questions whether she's mentally ill, and the issue is simply one between her and her doctor. But if a trans woman wants access to the same pills, she has to prove she's mentally fit, and go through the hassle and expense of seeing a psychologist. The stated purpose of having this extra barrier in place was to protect those who might be likely to change their minds about transition. However, subsequent research has shown that only a very small fraction of those who transition regret it. I don't actually have comparison numbers between those who regret transition and those who regret, say, tubal ligation or vasectomy (for which no psychological exam is necessary), but I strongly suspect that the number of people who are unhappy about having sterilized themselves is higher. So why should psychologists' letters be necessary for trans people alone?

    I suppose this could affect people who are only unhappy about gender identity issues, and experience no other mental health concerns. But in that case, I imagine therapists will do what they've done since 1987, when homosexuality was taken out of the DSM: just code their clients' symptoms as depression or anxiety or what have you.

    I understand that no one should be ashamed to take a place among the ranks of the mentally ill--after all, nearly everybody will experience some kind of diagnosable mental health condition at some point in their lives. However, I think that gender incongruity is sufficiently unlike something like depression or schizophrenia to warrant its exclusion from the mental health chapters of the ICD.
     
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  23. JediVision

    JediVision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2015
    [​IMG]

    What is supposed to be the difference here between "Woman/Man" and "Nontransgender woman/man"?
     
  24. Ava G.

    Ava G. Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2016
    None. Lol
     
  25. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Tell someone who identifies as "man" that there's no difference between him and someone who identifies as "non-transgender man" and see how far that gets you. :p This is about how you describe yourself, so there are many variations. For that matter, some trans men just identify as men, with no qualifiers, and some trans women do similarly. They are not the same as non-trans people.
     
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