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JCC Transgender, nonbinary, genderqueer

Discussion in 'Community' started by Darth Dobrolous, Jan 12, 2016.

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I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host VIP - Game Host

Registered:

Nov 20, 2012

This reminds me that I created a thread in 7SA asking where the bathrooms are in SW, and a pre-mod Bazinga'd kept calling for it to be locked.

I Are The Internets, Jan 14, 2016

#76
Penguinator Former Mod VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

May 23, 2005

I Are The Internets said: ↑

This reminds me that I created a thread in 7SA asking where the bathrooms are in SW, and a pre-mod Bazinga'd kept calling for it to be locked.
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Anyone heard/read about Catalina de Erauso?

Penguinator, Jan 14, 2016

#77

JoinTheSchwarz likes this.
Boba Nekhbet Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

Nov 30, 2014

JoinTheSchwarz said: ↑

Boba Nekhbet said: ↑

Use what they prefer, obviously.

In modern internet usage "latin@" (because it looks like a combination of o and a) and "latinx" have become popular gender-neutral reference words that can be transferred into other Spanish words (amigx), although the former might be more of a feminism thing than a trans thing.
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I hate that trendy (back in the 90s) use of the @ when there's already the grammatically correct o/a. I'm glad it's practically gone.
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Huh, I had never seen or heard of it until a few years ago. I see "latinx" a lot more now, but People On The Internet are definitely still using @

Boba Nekhbet, Jan 14, 2016

#78
dp4m Chosen One

Registered:

Nov 8, 2001

So, this is something I guess?

http://boingboing.net/2015/05/28/rickrolling-is-sexist-racist.html

dp4m, Jan 19, 2016

#79
TrakNar Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

Apr 4, 2011

YOU LEAVE RICK ASTLEY ALONE! D:

TrakNar, Jan 19, 2016

#80
Penguinator Former Mod VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

May 23, 2005

dp4m said: ↑

So, this is something I guess?

http://boingboing.net/2015/05/28/rickrolling-is-sexist-racist.html
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Some pretty compelling discussion in their linked article there.

Penguinator, Jan 19, 2016

#81

Darth Guy, solojones, A Chorus of Disapproval and 1 other person like this.
solojones Chosen One

Registered:

Sep 27, 2000

That reminds me of this blog post from a few weeks ago

solojones, Jan 19, 2016

#82

SateleNovelist11 and dp4m like this.
Hank Hill Jedi Knight

Registered:

Feb 9, 2013

dp4m said: ↑

So, this is something I guess?

http://boingboing.net/2015/05/28/rickrolling-is-sexist-racist.html
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What a joke that article is.

Hank Hill, Jan 19, 2016

#83
VadersLaMent Chosen One

Registered:

Apr 3, 2002

The Wachowski SISTERS

VadersLaMent, Mar 9, 2016

#84

DavidSword79 likes this.
DavidSword79 Jedi Knight

Registered:

Dec 27, 2015

Good on both of them. Gender is in the heart, not the dangly bits.

DavidSword79, Mar 9, 2016

#85

morrison85 and SateleNovelist11 like this.
Trip Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 7, 2003

why god, why

Trip, Mar 9, 2016

#86

hudzu likes this.
Luigi Jedi Master

Registered:

Nov 10, 2006

why what?

Luigi, Mar 9, 2016

#87
DavidSword79 Jedi Knight

Registered:

Dec 27, 2015

Trip said: ↑

why god, why
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Gender is in the heart. What's it to you?

DavidSword79, Mar 9, 2016

#88

SateleNovelist11 likes this.
Boba Nekhbet Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

Nov 30, 2014

DavidSword79 said: ↑

Gender is in the heart.
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I thought that was groove.

Boba Nekhbet, Mar 9, 2016

#89

JoinTheSchwarz , tom, AmySolo and 1 other person like this.
Trip Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 7, 2003

DavidSword79 said: ↑

Gender is in the heart. What's it to you?
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gender is, like, infinity, mannnn

Trip, Mar 9, 2016

#90
DANNASUK Force Ghost

Registered:

Nov 1, 2012

Gender neutrality is the way forward for society. Defining individuals based on gender is so old fashion.

DANNASUK, Mar 9, 2016

#91

morrison85 and SateleNovelist11 like this.
Trip Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 7, 2003

so old fashion

Trip, Mar 9, 2016

#92
DavidSword79 Jedi Knight

Registered:

Dec 27, 2015

I'm glad we had a chance to discuss this complex issue in such depth.

DavidSword79, Mar 9, 2016

#93
VadersLaMent Chosen One

Registered:

Apr 3, 2002

I wonder how denziens of the Matrix, meaning the programs, chose their genders when they went into the Matrix. Did the machine world have some form of gender in their programming?

VadersLaMent, Mar 9, 2016

#94

SateleNovelist11 likes this.
Trip Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 7, 2003

DavidSword79 said: ↑

I'm glad we had a chance to discuss this complex issue in such depth.
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hey man im just quoting lilly here

But the reality, my reality is that I’ve been transitioning and will continue to transition all of my life, through the infinite that exists between male and female as it does in the infinite between the binary of zero and one. We need to elevate the dialogue beyond the simplicity of binary. Binary is a false idol.
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like woah

Trip, Mar 9, 2016

#95
JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 21, 2002

Cut it out.

JoinTheSchwarz , Mar 9, 2016

#96

DavidSword79 likes this.
Trip Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 7, 2003

aw sorry jts, this is tagged jcc so i assumed mild trolling was acceptable

Trip, Mar 9, 2016

#97
Ghost Chosen One

Registered:

Oct 13, 2003
Recently saw this article, thought it would be good for this thread:

http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/news/a43461/what-is-non-binary-gender/

I'm Not Male. I'm Not Female. Please Don't Ask Me About My Junk.

And other helpful tips. Not from "him" or "her," but from "them."

You'd be surprised how many people ask me about my crotch. It's a lot. I have had people ask me which "parts" I have, how they look, what I plan to do with them. I don't run around with a sign that says "ask me about my crotch," but as soon as I bring up my gender identity to certain people, all of a sudden it appears on the discussion table like a highly inappropriate Seamless order. Yes, even in New York. Yes, even among seemingly "progressive" people. And it stems from the fact that most people you meet simply do not know much about non-binary gender identities. It usually goes like this:

"So you don't feel like a boy or girl?"
"Exactly."
"But you wear makeup."
"Yeah."
"But you're not a woman."
"Nah."
"...Huh."
I have had this exact conversation at least once a week, every week since coming out publicly in November. It's not one I mind; it just gets repetitive, and occasionally a little insulting if the conversation leads to questions like, "So you're just trying to be different?" With trans visibility increasing more quickly than ever, non-binary gender identity is coming into focus, too.
And it's often misunderstood.
On Tuesday, The New York Times Magazine published a brief etymology of the words "they" and "them" as pronouns for people who identify as genderqueer, genderfluid, agender, gender-noncomforming, and other genders. The piece is another stride in acknowledging those who do not feel they fit on the current male/female binary—and another piece in the growing conversation surrounding gender in society.
As someone who identifies with gender-neutral pronouns, I was amped to see the Times bring the discussion onto the radar of readers who may not know there are even people out there who don't identify as male or female. I've been out for four months, but I've known I'm not cisgender for the last five or so years (probably longer, if I'm honest, depending on how you interpret some odd childhood habits).
Here are some of questions I've frequently been asked since coming out:
Aren't you just born with your gender?
While gender and sex are frequently used interchangeably, the two do not mean the same thing. Your sex relates to your biology, both physiological and anatomical, which often influences how you're treated in society (example: the enforcing of gender roles), but it is not the same as gender.
According to the World Health Organization, gender is "the socially constructed characteristics of women and men." It goes on to emphasize the importance of sensitivity to "different identities that do not necessarily fit into binary male and female sex categories."
What's the difference between a non-binary and a binary identity?
The gender binary separates those who identify as male or female, simple as that. Non-binary genders, however, don't fit neatly within these two—they can be a combination of male and female, a fluid back-and-forth, or totally outside of the binary. Cisgender people, on the other hand, are folks whose identities align with the gender they were assigned at birth.
Note: "Non-binary" is an imperfect catchall for any gender outside of female and male, but it's what I'll primarily use in this rundown for simplicity's sake.
Does this mean you don't look female or male?
A common misconception is that all non-binary people are androgynous, but that isn't the case. The way you present yourself (gender expression) and the way you identify can be connected, but they are not necessarily dependent on one another.

I do not identify as a woman, but the above photos show you that I present fairly feminine, meaning most people assume I am a cisgender woman until I inform them otherwise. I keep my hair long because I prefer a lob cut. I don't shave my legs. I wear dresses once in a while, and I play with makeup every day because it's literally my job (I'm the Beauty Editor of GoodHousekeeping.com).
At the same time, I know people who identify as genderqueer, agender, genderfluid, and non-binary who have beards and wax their legs. I know others who sculpt their faces with makeup and prefer suits. I know some who wear no makeup at all and prefer short hair—all sorts of expressions that depend wholly on the individual.
Are non-binary people considered transgender?
There's actually not a standardized answer for this. While non-binary people often get shuffled into the transgender category, some people who are non-binary do not identify as transgender, while others do.
Does this mean you're gay?
Nope. Your sexual orientation and your gender identity are separate. A transwoman who dated primarily women earlier in life would not necessarily start being attracted to men simply because she had come out as a woman. I'm queer and attracted to people of various genders—and have, in fact, dated several straight-identifying people.
How do I know which pronouns to use for someone?
Ask! It's the quickest and most reliable way to determine someone's pronouns. I like to keep mine in my Twitter bio for visibility. Some people use they and them, like me, while others use ze and zir, xe and xem, or ze and hir. There are so many alternatives. Some non-binary people simply utilize he and him or she and her, too, so again, it's always best to ask.
But how do you use "they," "their," and "they" in reference to a single person?
Using these words can feel a little odd at first. When I came out to my team at work, I gave them examples to clarify how my preferred pronouns are used to make the transition easier.
Example 1: Catherine is a great musician, they should start a band.
Example 2: I can't get a hold of Jesse—can somebody call them for me?
Example 3: Peter loves their dog so much.
That sounds like a lot of work. Can't we just use the old ones?
Yeah, nah. It's really not difficult, and it's pretty annoying when people claim it is.
Imagine your name is Jack, but every time your boss speaks to you, they call you Jim, or Jennifer, or James. Or if you're a man and someone keeps calling you "Mrs." It may feel uncomfortable, or at least inaccurate. It's equally, if not more, frustrating to be constantly labeled as somebody else with regard to gender, so it's very helpful when people actually listen and act respectfully. If you can learn somebody's name, you can learn their pronouns.
What if I mess up and call someone the wrong pronoun?
Do your best! It can and will be initially awkward to misgender someone, but putting in effort to learn and get accustomed to a person's preferred pronouns is the best way to show you respect their identity.

Pin

So...which bathroom do you use?
Well, I would prefer to safely use whichever one is most readily available, as would most people, though certain lawmakers and general *******s would love to see that outlawed. When forced to choose between a men's room and a women's room, I typically use the women's restroom because it's the one that will garner the least amount of attention, negative or otherwise.
Everyone is different, of course, but the general consensus is that trans and non-binary people would just like to use the bathroom, period, with no bullying, threats of violence, or laws imposing our ability to do so.
Is it ever okay to ask non-binary people about "which parts" they have?
Just gonna go with a hard "no" on this one, though it's shocking how many people think it's okay to ask someone about what's going on in their pants. It would be weird if someone at a party spontaneously asked you about your junk, right? So maybe don't ask your trans and non-binary friends and acquaintances what's up with theirs. Thanks in advance.

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Ghost, Mar 31, 2016

#98
morrison85 Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

May 13, 2005

gosh, in secondary school while i was in y 10 i was even asked by y6 ers what my gender was... how about none of your effing business.. I only stumbled gender names later but still.. anyway...

morrison85, Apr 1, 2016

#99
Trip Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 7, 2003

that Esquire piece is totally an april fools thing, right?

right?

Trip, Apr 1, 2016

#100

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