TRANSITION TO VADER: "The neat little thing"

Dont mean to be rude here. Texas, your frankenstien idea is a good idea but I don't think GL will do anything like that. Too in-humane as people said. SW isn't your typical Sci-Fi like people said. The reason Dooku says a lot of thinks Vader said was because thats what Sit apperentices said, if Darth Maul wasn't so silent and full of himself he would of done the same thing. But he had more hate toawrds the jedi then Dooku and Vader, they just wanted everyone to be evil. I think Ani was on the verge of death when Palpy found him. Therfore he could brought back to life, but needed all the machines to kepp him alive. I thoink Palpy could of gave Vader some kind of temp. lifesuit while Vader made his own out scrap parts. Vader's and Dooku's Cape chains look alike, But what else would a Dark lord use to keep his cape on? a little sissy piece of string. Think about, Steel (or in SW duristeel) is an more imtimdating then string or rope to old your cape on isn't it?
Well thats my opinion hope I didn't offend any body and sorry for spelling errors.

 

TEXAS, I'm totally with you on EVERYTHING EXCEPT that Dukoo's body and or body parts will be one wth Anakin's. Everything else, I agree with wholeheartedly don't get me wrong. Anakin having fingers and arms, toes and legs sewn onto his body? ABSOLUTELY!!!! Anakin being peiced together by dorids while laying lifeless on a table? I would would be dissapointed if that DIDN'T happen. The only thing I don't agree with is the Dukoo's body thing.(although I think it's a really cool idea)That's the only part of your theory I have a problem with. That, and only something like that would IMO be and insult the saga's humanity. So maybe when I posted I didn't clarify my position enough. But anyway, I'm with you on the wole Frankenstein thing. I mean not only is SW human, but it's also IRONIC. Lets not forget that. And I think that seeing the most human character in the saga being put together to become a machine, would be quite ironic. Not to mention symbolic.

 

cough, *up* cough, cough.

- i like this thread too much

 

DarthSiren
I think that Dooku's energy will be transfered into Anakin's dead body in order for Sidious to bring him back to life and in the meantime to control and unslave him through the power of the Dark side.
The same way Doctor Frankeinstein is connected to his monster.
He will have an army of Clones and a obedient creature eternelly thankfull because of the gift of life.
Vader will be Sidious' creature.
Do you remember that last thing that comes out of the Emperor's body after he is thrown into the Death Star's shaft. Dark blue mysterious power.
THIS right there is a key element of the Saga which hasn't been explained yet,
-->Dooku's body parts, allright i might have pushed it a little too far.
All i'm saying is that the same dark blue electric power that killed Vader will take him back to like in Ep.III.
PS: DARTH-JEREK
Greatest story teller of all times,
They were refering to the Cinema history, not comparring GL to Spinosa, Kant, Hemmingway or Hugo but to Kurrosawa, Felini, Kubrick, Truffault or Chaplin...
But your comment about Camoes was interesting...However i love the concept of telling a story backwards, i think it's pure geniuos right there !

 

TEXAS-
I dig your enthusiasm, man.
You raise some interesting points and show a good understanding of cinema language.
I agree with your assesment about the 30s and 40s. AOTC displays strong influences of German Expressionism and dare I say it 'Noir' and Gothic styling.
I like your Frankenstien parallel but up till now I've never seen Vader particularly in this way. The best modern re-telling of Frankenstien was the original Robocop. Right down to the lynching he cops from the police ( villagers ). But certainly like Frankenstien, Vader destroys his master ( poss. creator ) so your analogy may be spot on. Anyway, about the Dooku/Vader hybrid, I reckon this is a bit of a stretch but it stimulates good debate. I feel Dooku is there more as an obstacle for Anakin to overcome, potential bait with which Sidious can test him

 

Thanx man, i appreciate that especially the thing about European's cinematic influences in GL !
Hey RevengeOfJohnnyNova, did you notice that each movie directed by GL (i'm not talking about ESB, ROTJ & the Indy Trilogy)but the ones he personnally directed (not produced)
were all hommages to nostalgic eras.
THX 1138=European-post modern "Renouveau" 50'
American Graffitti=American Rock, Roll & Ride decade of the 60'
ANH=Westerns from the 70'
TPM=Japonese films from Kurosawas to the Asian "mandarin" epics from the late 70'
AOTC="Film noir" investigation films from the 50'
So now he is talking of the 30' and 40' , he got it all covered.
He has a real sense of capturing and swallowing civilisations and religions's influences and mixing them together into pop culture icon.
Ps: FUNNY you talked about ROBOCOP, because the first one was directed by the Deutch director Paul Veroheven, while the sequel where we see the largest amount of Frankeinstein's influences was directed by Irvin Kershner, who directed ESB.
So it all goes full circle.
"FRANKEINSTEIN" IS the key word of GL's little riddle.

 

All good angles.
I also feel TPM draws heavily on the Hollywood cinematic style of the late 50s, early 60s. People compare the pod race to Ben Hur which is undeniable, but the parallels go deeper than that. The style of direction, acting, dialogue stucture, etc.
I do feel, tho that American Graffiti pioneered it's own style. It really was the first of the 'Slice of Life' genre of movies.
THX is certainly strongly influenced by Italian and French styles esp, French New Wave and Italian Neo-realism.
I loved the Expressive nature of the lighting and camera direction in AOTC.
I'm starting to sound like an Art Student Tosser, but I think these are areas where Lucas is certainly undervalued as a director, esp, from popular critics.

 

Wouah big league man, i'm impressed,
really cool !
-TPM The Gungans coming out of the Fog
Kurosawa "7 Samourais" and "Dreams"
The Podrace sequence got its influences in what the Italians call "Peplums" all those Biblical-scale movies like "Ben-Hur, Cleopatra, Barrabas ect...
But the main influence trully is the old fashion Hollywood classics from the 50' and 60'. Some people also think that the SW's titles sound like B.Movies's but i don't necessarly agree with that one.
"Killer Tomatoes eat France" is one thing
"The Phantom Menace" is something else !

 

One last little comment...(not really!)
The electric power from the dark side that Vader absorbs after throwing Palpatine in the DS shaft in ROTJ is the same power Sidious is going to use in order to transfer Tyrannus's powers to Anakin's dead body to bring him back to life. This way, after the defeat of Maul, and Tyrannus's thirst for political power, Sidious would have his own creature, his slave... vader himself.
Now a few quotes to back it up
"If only you would know the full power of the Dark side"
"Then my father is trully dead..."
Luke to Vader (ROTJ)
"Yes my master"
Vader to the Emperor (ROTJ)
In Ep.III, i believe that Chancellor Palpatine will continue to get closer to Anakin, listenning, understanding his frustrations, he will continue to guide and encourage him. Anakin will not feel the corruption within Palpatine.
OB1 will though, just like his master before him (QGJ)and this will only pull the two knights apart. Anakin and OB1 will split apart and loose touch. Palpatine will continue to watch
"Anakin's career with great interest"
You know how Anakin always wants to fix things when he's upset.
Well add to that fact this coming line
"One day i will be the most powerful Jedi ever, i will even keep people from dying"
Now everything's clear, the whole "Frankeinstein Theory". Anakin is not a demon, he's a fallen angel (GL statement)
On Tatooine he was just a SLAVE boy who likes to build and FIX things.
YES, stay with me on that one, Anakin was and will continue to be a slave.
If you watch the 1930's Universal "The Mummy" the British version of Dracula and especially Frankeinstein, you usually have the main character vanishing at one third of the film, the plot keeps on going, and the main central character returns at the end with a new identity, a new look, and a new cool name...then they have "The Return of the Mummy" and "frankeinstein returns".
Well we heard (and i believe this was official source than Sir Earl Jones will only record five minutes of dialogue)
I really don't believe this would be the case if Anakin was going to be tempted and if suddenly he would turn to the DS, forgetting everything about who he trully is, about his origins.
No c'on! Anakin is just like Luke, might be a little more arrogant but he is still a nice fellow. This is why in TPM and AOTC we don't see him really going down hill, because i don't think he will suddenly go from "this boy from Tattooine" to the evil Darth Vader. No i think he is going to disapear in Ep.III, he will stay hidden for a while, hidden on Coruscant in Sidious' secret base. Where the whole "Frankeinstein thing" will trasform him for ever.
And then at the end Anakin will return with "the Imperial March" in the BG, return as the Dark Lord of the Sith, return as the result of Sidious' evil, return as Vader...

 

Don't Think so!
Anakin die's by Obi-Wan's hand and what is left of him is brought back by the dark side. Possibly by the emperors lightening!
The suit will be powered by Dark force embeded crystals and back when Ben told luke "Vader betrayed and murdered your father" '"What I told was true from a certain point of view!" He was correct, It will be like a dark phantom sneaking up on Anakin through his anger and he cannot control it! at the moment of death, just a little of anakin will remain, and resurection occurs Vader is present, But lukes love will revive the little bit of anakin. Proving Tiny bit of love can conquer a lot of hate!

 

OriginalJedi, you started sayin' "I don't think so" and then you continued by para-phrasing my point of you.
It would have been quicker to sadmitt that you agree.
Is it the "OB1 not killing Anakin" part or the Whole "Frankeinstein theory" that bothers you? Because your thing about Sidious awakenning Anakin to the dark side through lightenning is exactly the topic of this thread. So where do you exactly disagree OriginalJedi ?
PS: One more argument to back my theory up.
GL's favorite friend is Francis Ford Coppola, who directed Bram Stocker's Dracula and produced Mary Shelley's Frankenstein...

 

um.... me likes me likes

TEXAS

I like your idea ( well GL's if this happens)
lol

i see no problem with a franki type scene in ep3

why?
because to me it would make alot of the other scenes in the trilogy better as far as ep5 goes

i mean who does palpy think he's really talking to when he says "the son of skywalker must not become a jedi"

its just a thought i like this thread good one Texas

 

THANX DA_SINISTA_MINISTA
It's a tough world out there for a "franki theory" (I like the way you call it)
The theory have been evolving some since the first post. I red earlier in the GrilledSarlacc's thread about official scoops about Ep.III that GL was saying that Anakin would speak with Sir Earl Jones's voice at the very end, after putting on his helmet for the first time, now my theory about Dooku's voice doesn't register anymore,
now what really did strike me though was his comment about Anakin's resurrection.
I trully think that the ultimate twist in Ep.III and in the Saga will be about rather or not Anakin Skywalker was tempted by the Dark side and became Darth Vader, or if he trully really died and was re-born as Vader.
THIS would change some of our perceptions about the OT. He's Luke's dad (no doubt there)but he WAS killed by Vader in the sense that the mechanical/lightenning phenomenom which occured when Sidious used his powers, he brought him back to life as Vader. We'll see in 2005 who's right, now if i'm wrong i'll buy ya a drink, it'll be on me !I just have a good feeling about this...

 

This theory is true FROM A CERTAIN POINT OF VIEW!!!! Notice Four lines from the OT from the two masters in Anikin/vaders life
"Darth Vader betrayed and murdered you father."
"He is more machine now than man twisted and evil"
"He could destroy us"
"You like your father are now MINE!"

So What does this mean in terms of TEXAS Theory. Anakin is mutilated and kept alive by life support. Here is the sequence as I see it. Dooku, Obi Wan, Anakin, Sidious and Yoda. Obi-wan and Yoda fight Dooku who is between them and and Anakin with Sidious. The good guys win and then Anakin fights Obi-wan as yoda tries to netrulize Sidious with the hocus pocus force magic.
Obi-wan tells Luke in ROTJ that "I once thought as you did but he is more machine now than man" Meaning when he first tried to bring him back he was completely organic. The way I see it Qui Gon's voice has to be heard in his head as NO ANAKIN or Something like that as he battles Obi-wan but then Anikin knowing what he had done was wrong and cannot choose debates and is confused and falls into the lava the way Luke delibitly falls in ESB by not giving in totally to hate." Obi-wan is disoriented even more than he was at the end of EPI when Qui Gon Dies. He tries to go after Sidious but is forced back along with yoda. Sidious and the Guards take the bodies of Dooku and Anakin back to Wherever they hang.
The Medical droids (as seen in the OT) recontruct the remaing parts of Dooku and using Dookus Physical Size and Stature create a mechaninic Dooku combine it with Anakins mutilated body but keeping his abilities with the force (Medicloreines and all) form into Darth Vader.
Now Sidious? Sidious known for droids and using droids has an extensive collection of parts. Sidious says "I can keep you alive with the Dark Side, your journey will be complete" Together contruct a Mechanical Dooku/Organic Aninkin mix into a Half and Half known as Darth Vader. This is totally 30's and 40's Frankenstien, The Fly, Dracula, and Metropolis!!!! HIS FAVOITE FILM!!!!!!!

 

nice too see some creative minds here cool vader

 

Texas:

"...this is why Anakin's voice (David Prowse) sounds different than Hayden Christensen."

For the record, David Prowse did not provide the voice (or body) for Anakin Skywalker in ROTJ--this is a VERY sore subject between Prowse and GL.

If memory serves, GL shot Prowse in the de-masking scene, but didn't like the way he looked, so he re-shot the scene using actor Sebastian Shaw, who also appeared as ghost Anakin in the final scenes.

Prowse was irate at the decision, because he had put so much into portraying Vader behind the mask that he was ecstatic about being able to show his face finally.

This is why, when Prowse signs autographs (like the one I have on a DV action figure), he signs them "David Prowse IS Darth Vader."

 

TEXAS man, YES!!! Your third to last post is EXACTLY how I envision the Vader transformation taking place. You and I are on the same page my freind. I think that Vader is the most complex, interesting, mystitfying character in the entire saga, and IMO, in movie history. Seeing Anakin being peiced together Frankienstein style, and being shocked by life-giving force lightening would just be the coolest thing ever! Oh, I just get excited thinking about it. I can just see shots of his hand and we see his fingers start to move, his eyes open, and we hear a really creeped out distorted version of the imperial march in the background. Oh man I can't wait!!!

P.S. man is there a fire sale on icons today or what?!?!

 

It would take away meaning from his redemption. If Anakin is dead and his body parts used, then he's not Anakin anymore. Anakin would not fall if he is dead. He dies pure. Then we shouldn't have feelings for the freak of nature you're implying.

Anakin is Darth vader. He is a man that lets his emtions control him. He is very passionate, and it repeatedly gets him into trouble. He is a miserable and tormented soul. He goes to the darkside in despair and furious hatred, because he can't stop himself.

SW is about choices. Anakin had to make a choice. No one made it for him. He let himself be manipulated, he let himself give into rage and kill ruthlessly. He made bad choices.
His family suffered, but Luke loved him anyway. He chose to forgive his father.

 

Ahh but Tiershon_Fett, what you have to keep in kind is this line:

"A young man named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned evil, betrayed and MURDERED your father."

Now, I completely understand your point. It would kind of cheapen his redemtion. Or, would it? See the word "murdered" leads me to beleive that Anakin did really die, and did die pure. Why? Well when Obi says the infamous "certain point of veiw" line, IMO the only thing that Obi could have been embellishing about was the fact that Anakin was "murdered", not the fact that he didn't die. Wich persoanlly, I think it's possible that he does. It would make quite a bit of sense to the "Then my father is truly dead." line in ROTJ, and would be very symbolic in that the Anakin we kow and love would really cease to exist. And really it wouldn't cheapen his redemption, I can see why you would think that though. But really, it could work both ways. I would be satisfied either way, whether he's near death or dies.

 

DarthSiren Nice to see you joining what seemed to be another crazy funky theory at first but really turned out to be an undenyable idea. I'm sure we'll have some leak before June 2003 from Lucasfilm to back us up on this "Franky Theory".
DarthSiren we found a cool compromize.
Now to go back to this thread which by the way actually started by an interesting idea/chat between
HomelessJedi, Darth Sapient and myself.
All credits to those guys.Darth Sapient was actually the first one of us to talk about Frankeinstein.
I am an hardcore movie buff, and this allowed me to think of this particular film when i first red the article in "Empire" (i believe) where GL talked of the now famous "neat little thing" quote.
Now Sidious? Sidious known for droids and using droids has an extensive collection of parts. Sidious says "I can keep you alive with the Dark Side, your journey will be complete" Together contruct a Mechanical Dooku/Organic Anakin mix into a Half and Half known as Darth Vader. This is totally 30's and 40's Frankenstien, The Fly, Dracula, and Metropolis!!!! HIS FAVORITE FILM!!!!!!! good job there ORIGINALVADER
-is METROPOLIS really his favorite film because the golden droid in that film and the megalopolis are really reminiscent of Threepio and Coruscant.
I didn't know that ORIGINALVADER, now one last thing before i go, i watched BBC the other day and appenratly GL & Coppola are still best friends. FFC is actually the first one to see GL's films.
He produced "THX", "GRAFFITTI"
advised GL on ANH, and helped GL to edit TPM,now we all know that FFC's next film will be about creatures and mythological beings, and that His biggest source of inspiration will be "the Monster movies" from the 40' ...we also know that GL & FFC are so connected that their movies are often really similar.
so who knows...This thing GL got in store which "Hopefully is going to work" has to be about Sidious using lightning to resurrect Anakin.And i'm going to study the OT again this WE and look for more clues.

 

If Anakin really "dies", I guess he won´t be brain-dead. Even Palpy wouldn´t have the power to bring a brain-dead person back to life. I´d rather imagine Anakin being in a state of coma and Palpy bringing him back by using darkside-force lightning.

I don´t believe that Vader will be a half Anakin - half Dooku creature. He´s kind of a "semi-cyborg" - half human, half mechanical.

 

"THE FRANKY THEORY" that has nothing official, but is rather just an humble speculation, believes that Anakin dies and he's resurrected by Dooku's innerpower (innerpower that a powerful Sith like Sidious can transfer from one body to the other). Sidious kills Dooku (he doesn't need him anymore-or-Dooku is too thirsty for power, so he could be a threat to Sidious's plan) and extract the lightnning out of his body, emptying him from the Sith source of life he holds inside and injecting this electric energy into Anakin's body who would then come back to life.
PS: Thanx to ya'll the "Franky Theory" is evolving every day and by the time we'll hear the first official news should be in its final form...

 

They should pull a Robo-Cop on him. He either flatlines, or falls into a deep coma. When he wakes up he is the Vader we all know. No Dooku parts neccesary, that'd be kinda dumb. "Hey Luke, I'm about 33% your father, 15% a guy named Dooku and the rest robot parts." That's my two cents worth...

 

No rumsmuggler, we're talkin' Energy, raw SITH energy not personnality, DNA, Midichloreans or identity!!!!but rather TRANSFERED ENERGY from one being to an other.

 

That still seems kinds skecthy to me...