Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by TEXAS, Aug 27, 2002.
"So convenient that light sabers cuterize wounds instantly right !!?"
Not in ANH.
talkin' about the scene in the Cantina right ?
That's the only scene it could be.
I'd take it with a pretty big dose of salt, however, it seems like every leak, every spoiler, every piece of news appearing lately, had been going in the same direction ("Franky Theory" that is)
"[Spoiler-warning] : Anakin dies at the end of the duel against Obi-Wan in reality and literally. Through the power of the dark side, he is awaked again to life. In the moment in which he returns into the light, his hate can't keep him alive any longer, so he dies. Therefore it is also unimportant whether Luke [burns] the costume: Anakin will die.[Spoiler-End]"
EDIT : Thanks to SAND-CRAWLER 4 the alert !!
THE STARWARS ARCHIVES
I like the way the PT is gold (golden era, democraty, freedom) and the OT is silver (dark times, Empire, tyranny), pretty "neat" to give a different color/feel to each one of those trilogies...
Hey texas I agree with the Franky theory all the way! I was wondering where you got those DVD covers and if they are officially confirmed by Lucas. Is the EIII cover actually fanart, and are the OT covers from the DVD release already? I didn't know the individual DVDs covers had been revealed yet. Thanks.
I have been away for a while, i'm back !!
first of all cool icon Kamikrazy, i love this title, trully rocks. second of all, the pics were DVD covers that i got from a belgium site two weeks before they were officially released, so i had to take 'em out of my server, you know ?
anyway, in less than a year, we'll all know if all the "franky" believers out there were just full of "merde" the entire time, and if this is the case i'll have to move permanently to Cuba as a political refugee to avoid all the 3SA bashing !
Well TEXAS I take it you have checked out this photo (in another thread) VADER in shackles:-
seems fairly conclusive to me.. Franky Vader
The analogies are there for all to see. I just watched the original 'Frankenstein' again the other night. Pretty cool -- Dr. F. never speaks to the 'monster' immediately after his resurrection. He just dances around screaming 'it's alive, it's alive' while Boris Karloff (covered with a sheet with his arm hanging out) moves his hand after being hit by lightning. Dr. Frankenstein doesn't talk to the monster in the movie until several days later, keeping him in a dark dungeon while he gains strength.
Now this thread and the MF.com photos have me wondering -- does Anakin truly die after the duel, only to be revived soon after by Palpatine (possibly using his force lightning to do so), who then 'rebuilds him'? Now THAT would bear true to the whole Franky thing!
Nice comment. It also fits with GL's love of the classic horror genre. He loves to give his films a stylized feel ... what is more stylized than classic horror?
[AWESOME VIDEO][link=http://www.stuartrwood.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/movie/rotj.mov]THE END OF ROTJ/ROTS[/link][/AWESOME VIDEO]
After two years, here is the ultimate proof that Anakin does indeed die at the end of ROTS to be resurrected as a Sith Lord, "a la Frankenstein", and that my friend is a "neat little thing"
So the Franky theory is still, " in, " huh?
I like it, because it supports my belief that Anakin is not Darth Vader until after the duel.
I like it.
It explains my biggest personal peev of ROTJ, where DV dies after having an already fake hand chopped off, and getting zapped for about a second.
I always assumed it was because he was mostly machine and he short-circuited or whatever. And it never sat well with me.
The whole "Frankenstein" thing explains it all.
Its gonna take one hell of a scene to explain "Darkside Resurrection"!!!!!!!!!
This movie is going to be the coolest thing ever.
In my world anyway....
Hi Texas, been awhile since we last communicated about your Franky Theory ... looks like it's gonna materialise ... great! It falls in nicely with Lucas' wanting to make Vader a more sympathetic character. Hope it doesn't destroy too much of the 'evil mystique' of Vader (like he did with Solo's maverick/scoundrel nature when he let Greedo shoot first).
whaz up taun-thing ? long time, no see. you're definitly part of the possie. You know what, i really feel like GL knows what he's doing, this time around, i believe that his decision to take an extra 3 month to write the script, his secret re-shoot session in London right now and all the other marketing moves (Clonewars Animated and OT DVD connected to ROTS) are right on. This is the last starwars ever and he is not going to mess up. I'm a believer.
I like it, because it supports my belief that Anakin is not Darth Vader until after the duel.
I don't like it myself. It means that Anakin isn't Vader. Vader is some zombie using Anakins body. Frankenstein is a re-animated corpse. If that's the case then there should be no Anakin left to save in ROTJ. If this turns out to be the case, I think it's a big mistake for the story. Anakin must bear the burden of his decision and the behavior afterwards.
Hmm... going back to the whole "in the style of the 30's and 40's" thing though... does that necessarily mean Anakin has to DIE?! Could it not just be that the scene is SHOT in the style of Frankenstein?
In any case, it's a neat idea... I don't necessarily buy it. And I don't necessarily think that seeing Vader in shackles is proof that he dies.
It might be proof that Lucas is drawing from other influences, but that's all it is, as far as actual *proof* is concerned.
My two cents...
"Its gonna take one hell of a scene to explain "Darkside Resurrection"!!!!!!!!!"
Care to explain where the subsequent "Lightside Resurrection" was in ROTJ? I seem to recall "Anakin" attacking Palps before getting electroshock therapy.
Well it should have taken one hell of a scene to explain the "immaculate conception" of Anakin in TPM, but they didn't put one in. All we got was "He may have been conceived by Midichlorians themselves".
(insert eye-roll here)
As for a "darkside resurrection" is concerned, it won't happen. He doesn't die in the literal sense of the word. He is totally consumed by the dark side. As Obi Wan explains to Luke in ROTJ, when Anakin is seduced by the Dark Side and falls completely, he ceases to be Anakin Skywalker, thus he "dies" (from a certain point of view). This is Star Wars, not a 1939 Universal monster movie.
I will go as far as saying that it is the force (specifically the power of the Dark Side) that allows Anakin to survive his injuries long enough to be saved, but as for an actual death and resurrection? GL would never do something that stupid. It would destroy the film and turn the entire PT into a total joke.
I like speculation as much as the next person and while there can be (and are) theories abound regarding the creation of Vader, I think this is now a little over the top. The transformation from Anakin to Vader (physically speaking) is probably one of the more cut and dried things in the film. He loses a limb or two during "The Duel", he falls in or near lava (or similar molten substance)thus burning him beyond the ability to live for more than a few days. In reality, burn victims, even horribly burned victims, tend to linger for days. What usually kills them is not the burns themselves but the loss of ability to fight infections.
So, he is rescued by Palpatine (or his forces) and after being stabilized (Bacta tank anyone?) is placed in the suit which allows him to live outside of a hyperbaric chamber. Further illustration of what the injuries are can be attributed to "the chamber" itself as well. If Vader can survive with the helmet/mask off in the hyperbaric chamber (ESB) it stands to reason that he can breathe on his own in a controlled environment. He was able to breathe (laboriously, granted) after Luke removes the mask in ROTJ, so what exactly does the suit/mask do? Lung injuries come in many shapes and sizes. It could be his ability to filter out carbon Dioxide or absorb oxygen, Could have to do with controlling the air pressure he is able to withstand. Could be a hundred different things, but none of which would be instantly fatal. Life threatening yes, if untreated, but possible to survive.
To make it a death and resurrection in the literal, physical sense would be nothing short of ridiculous. Mary Shelley would roll over in her grave and ROTS would go down as a joke.
A darkside ressurection indeed wont happen. Its stupid, rediculous, implausible and not GL at all. Despite the fact these are Sci Fi/Fantasy films GL still goes for a lot of realism. As long as theres Anakin being ressurected by Palpatines Dark Side powers a spirit Obi Wan might as well be fighting alongside Luke Skywalker against Vader in The Empire Strikes Back penultimate Super Special Edition. After reading the synopsis of Episode 3 on the Lucasfilm Website im even further convinced Palpatine kills Mace Windu to show Anakin the true power of The Dark Side and from there Anakin is convinced its fully the way to go and fully volenteers to be Darth Vader.
Anakin being resurrectioned doesn't sound right to me either.
But if before TPM you told me Anakin wouldn't have a father........I wouldn't have believed that.
"DV dies after having an already fake hand chopped off, and getting zapped for about a second."
[in robotic voice]
DV dies because, as Yoda finds out in ROTS, destroying the Master will automatically bring down the Apprentice.
That is how/why Anakin Brings Balance to the Force.
I'm 99% positive that the videoclip of Hayden as a ghost at the end of RotJ is fake. I'm sure Lucas did reshoot the ending with Hayden replacing Shaw, but I don't think that clip is it.
1. Hayden's mannerisms
Originally, Shaw looks down at Yoda, then up to Obi, they make eye contact for a secon, then as Anikan looks straight ahead at Luke, Obi looks down at Yoda. I find it strange that Hayden doesn't really look at either of them, but instead starts off looking vaguely in-between their two heights, then looks straight forward, leaving Obi-Wan to stare at the side of his head rather than making the meaningful eye-contact they made before. Just seems sloppy. Then Hayden looks down, seeming at his feet, as though shuffling, then looks up and off to his right a bit and blinks oddly. If you watch his mannerisms closely, you may notice that it almost seems like 'off-camera' behavior, as though this is footage of Hayden either preparing to shoot a scene and taking his mark, or about to participate in a photo-op.
2. You may not have noticed, but whoever authored this changed Anakin's undershirt from a turtleneck into a V-neck. So when I watched this clip for subtle flaws, I focused on the motion of the V-neck, making sure it synced up with the rest of his tunic as he moved. If you go through this frame by frame, here's where I noticed a flaw; Just after Hayden looks at his feet and looks up again, an instant before it switches to the shot of Luke and Leia...Anakin's body is shifting\turning slightly to the right, and the tip of the 'V' the author cut into his shirt suddenly dips to the left for a frame or 2, going against his motion.
Then, when it goes back to the shot of Anakin, Yoda and Obi, just as Anakin sways over to his right...if you pause the clip, and move the position slider very slowly across that scene, you'll again notice the tip of the new V-neck shifts quickly from left to right, way out of sync with the motion...
Definately a fake, though a very good one.
"destroying the Master will automatically bring down the Apprentice."
I like that idea but doesn't it kind of go against the whole concept of the 'only 2 Sith' rule? The fundamental background of the rule being that multiple Sith will just keep killin each other out of hunger for power, to be 'number 1'. Whereas there is a balance with the 'master & apprentice' rule, because the master is the stronger, the apprentice must obey him, until of course the apprentice becomes strong enough to defeat the master, does so, and takes his own apprentice, becoming the master himself, and the cycle continues.
If it were true that killing the Sith master also destroys the apprentice, then it makes that rule pretty uneffective, and actually conterproductive as far as the Sith continuing to exist is concerned. This means that apprentice will always be apprentice until the master dies, and when that happens, since there were only 2, the sith are gone forever. That doesn't seem like a rule the Sith could create to ensure their survival, since it actually dooms them. It would also mean that rather than the torch having been passed to Palpatine at some point, he has been the Sith Master since the day the rule was put into place, meaning he's thousands of years old.
Doesn't make sense in the long run. Though less of a 'cool' idea, the concept that Anakin's hate keeps him alive is better as it doesn't comprimise any pre-established canon.