TRANSITION TO VADER: "The neat little thing"

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by TEXAS, Aug 27, 2002.

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  1. ScoobyDooku Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 3
    My understanding is that the Boba series happens in between Ep 3 and 4, where theyve got plenty of room to play.
  2. DarthListerine Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2004
    star 1
    [in robotic voice]

    oh, that's cool. even better.
  3. LORD_MONSTROSITY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2004
    star 5
    He wakes up and loses it on Sidious.

    He has it out with the man.

    My prediction.
  4. TEXAS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 4
  5. TEXAS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 4
    10 reasons why this is the real deal.

    1- Lucasfilm hasn't deny the Empire magazine rumors, far from it, RMC said that they did enhanced the OT films from the previous 1997 version, to what extent ? that we don't know for fact...

    2- The new improved FX seem so consistent to what was left to be fixed. Back in 1997, when i saw the OT on the big screen i had a few complains left (OB1/Vader's duel, light sabers looking like sticks ANH - Palpatine not being Iam Mc Diarmid on the hollogram scene ESB - and - Rancor not blending with the BG ROTJ). And those FX were the ones being fixed, amazing work for fanart !!

    3- Photoshop, AfterFX and all the other software available outhere aren't capable of creating new matte paintings, digital backgrounds or change character's position's angles, therefore the Anakin Ghost scene has to be real.

    4- The Ripped DVD version available on the web provides digital quality, enhanced FX and audio commentary. all right, lets assume that a very skilled fan would be able to fake a few FX, how would he have access to the top of the art technology in order to re digitalize all three films frame by frame. and i'm not even talking about John Dyskra, carrie fisher and GL's audio tracks, the dude would have to be a professional dub ingenieer able to duplicate someone's voice with computer samples, all right, u got the point , this is science fiction !

    5- Ian Mc Diarmid stated last year that they would have some re shoots to fill up the blanks (he didn't seem to be talking about ROTS). seems like he was referring to the hologram sequence in ESB.

    6- We got Jack Lloyd, Hayden Christensen, David Prowse and Sir Earl John... why in the world would we have sebastian shaw as a jedi ghost at the end, it would be unconsistent and really random. the general audience wouldn't get it. kids would be like "mom, who's that old man sitting next to yoda and ben ?" Having Hayden there, blends both trilogies and provides a good sense of continuity which serves the overall larger scheme of things. Besides, Anakin's performance there totally fits the scene, it isn't taken from AOTC, life as a house or shaterred glass i'm sorry ! Lucas is behind this, not some fan

    7- People were celebrating on Tatooine, Coruscant, Bespin and Endor. Where would Naboo be ? well, they fixed it. The angle of the Theed Palace is brand new, the Gungans are animated perfectly and scream "we're free, we're free !". The music seems longer to fit the new scene and above all. The Naboo added sequence is perfectly inserted into the final montage.

    8- Its THE DVD event of the decade. Lucasfilm's goal is to promote ROTS, bring the magic back on with the help of the original trilogy, fix the SE problems and have a new fan base ready for future projects. The whole thing makes so much sense to me. the whole thing sounds so "Lucasfilm" to me.

    9- Jabba was THE failure of the OT SE, Lucas was testing new grounds back in 1995. This added sequence was really just a way to see how they could have two characters (one live action, Harrison Ford - the other CGI) interract. it was three years after steven had come up with his CG dinos in Jurassic Park and Lucas felt like he was ready for the ultimate challenge. Tp show the Jedi golden age on screen in a prequel trilogy. Now it is 2004, almost 10 years had past since the original Jurassic Park film and ILM had improved a great deal. Adding the fact that Jabba appeared in TPM, seems quit normal to have a TPM/ROTJ typo Jabba in ANH instead of this ILM prototype that trully looked awfull. Once again, it sounds plausible !!

    10- But to me the biggest evidence of all, is the fact that the DVD pack will have a sticker, and trust me they won't just go with "the original trilogy on DVD for the first time" but rather something in the neighbourhood of "Episodes IV, V and VI digitally remastered for superior sound and picture quality, 5.1 tracks, audio commentaries and enhanced special effects." TRUST ME ON THAT ONE, see you on sept 21, i could bet on it, all right let's do it, i'll bet my 1983 Boba Fett act
  6. racerx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2002
    star 2
    why in the world would we have sebastian shaw as a jedi ghost at the end, it would be unconsistent and really random. the general audience wouldn't get it. kids would be like "mom, who's that old man sitting next to yoda and ben ?"

    Although I agree these changes are undoubtedly legit, I still have to disagree with this change and your reasoning.

    How could anyone over the age of two not get it? We get Sir Alec is the same Kenobi as Ewan's Kenobi. We've just seen Shaw as old Anakin five minutes earlier as he expires, helmetless, on Death Star II. He dies not as Vader, but as Anakin. Old Anakin. Old Kenobi ->old ghost Kenobi. Old Yoda->old ghost Yoda. Old Anakin->young ghost Anakin? Whether or not Anakin turned the dark side 20 years ago, he dies returned to the light.

    I don't get the Force fountain of youth effect, and I think any but the most casual movie goer will wonder why Anakin sheds 20-odd years, as well.
  7. Darth_Caliginous Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2004
    star 2
    OK, so here's the dumb question of the day (in other words, I know it's a stupid question so don't flame me. Just looking for opinions....)

    We all know that GL has replaced Shaw as Anakin's force ghost at the end of the ROTJ DVD, but has he done anything to modify Vader's death scene? (I.E. a reshoot of the camera angles where we see his face?)

    Simply having Shaw in one scene and then Hayden at the end seems to be a bit silly. They've taken great care to have Ewan's appearance closely mirror that of Sir Alec as he has aged through EP's 1 and 2. The images we have seen from ROTS shows that trend continue with the same basic hair style and beard as ObiWan in ANH. Wouldn't it make sense (If you had to replace Shaw to begin with) to have Hayden reshoot the death scene with makeup to make him appear aged? That would make the whole thing a bit easier to stomach and would make the continuity a little smoother...(imho)
  8. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    I have to agree with racerx and Darth_Caliginous.

    I think we all understand that George wants to bridge the movies, but I think that this was a bit reckless. Let's face it: Jake Lloyd doesn't exactly look like a younder Hayden. It's okay to assume some physical changes over the years.
  9. TEXAS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 4
    the only thing i can say is that it takes 5 guys to make VADER alive... (jack lloyd, Hayden Christensen, David Prowse, Sebastian Shaw, Sir Earl Johns, all the stunt doubles plus the CG version)








    who else could say that ?
  10. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    ^^

    Where was the CG Vader?
  11. FORCEFED Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 5
    >3- Photoshop, AfterFX and all the other software available outhere aren't capable of creating new matte paintings, digital backgrounds or change character's position's angles, therefore the Anakin Ghost scene has to be real.<

    No those programs can't create those things. They can however allow you to replace someone's head. i'm a designer, and I've created more complicated stuff from nothing using photoshop alone. The program can't do those things you said, but a talented artist with the program could. :)

    Sorry, man, but I gotta see this stuff to believe it. I mean, the pics on empire show fixed, rumored and not true things right? Then why do they show images of things that are rumoured? If they are rumoured, would they not be confirmed by this supposed "scoop"?

    maybe some of these things are happening, but I doubt these are anything like the real thing.

    These are fanart interpretations of rumoured changes.
    Believe dat.
  12. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    I've seen the suggestion/spoiler on 3SA that the Sebastian Shaw force ghost fades into Hayden's. For all the entirely sane arguements above, this makes absolutely no sense UNLESS Obi Wan's force ghost morphs from Alec Guiness' to Ewan's at precisely the same time, and even this might not work. Why would GL want to have Luke see his dad in a way he never knew him? As noted above, old Anakin died a Jedi, killing Palpatine and Vader at the same time. Luke seeing him as he died, a redeemed Jedi (and the only way that Luke knew him) makes complete and total sense to me.

    Assume for arguement's sake that GL might make this plot point change to show the Obi Wan/Anakin friendship being resurrected after Anakin redeems himself. Luke would get the added benefit of seeing two of his three 'heroes' change right before his eyes into how they looked in their prime when their friendship and the Jedi order were both still strong!

    Cynical me, but I think GL is more likely make this change and others in the OT for the sole reason of getting more people to buy the DVD set! (can you say 'cha-ching?')

    EDIT: Spelling (oops)
  13. Buddha Fett Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4
    "Sorry, man, but I gotta see this stuff to believe it... These are fanart interpretations of rumoured changes. Believe dat. " FORCEFED.

    As close to proof as you'll get before Sept.21st...

    Go_here...

    Enjoy. :)

  14. cbriteISU Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2004
    star 1
    I thought a lot about why Lucas would put in a young Anakin ghost as opposed to the old ghost. I didn't like the idea of the young ghost at first, but now that I think about it, it makes sense to me.

    First, the shaw character is Vader after he fell into the lava, and from what I understand, he becomes more machine than man at that point. That would mean that Anakin's body at that point wouldn't be complete, only parts of him. That to me makes sense as to why the young Anakin shows up as a ghost. That was the last moment in time that Anakin's body was intact. I don't see how half an old man could come back as a whole ghost. I mean, Anakin or the force wouldn't know what the missing body parts looked like when he was old because they weren't there, so how could they be there when he dies?

    And just because the young Anakin ghost shows up at the end, I don't believe that means that Anakin dies and is brought back to life in ROTS. The idea that vader was brought back to life by palpatine is stupid. Lucas isn't that dorky. Anakin is knocked into the pit, pulled out mortally wounded and is put on machines to stay alive. The whole reason vader is a machine to keep him alive from his lava injuries. He never dies. It says that on the OS, and I thought everyone has known these facts for decades. What?s with all this resurrection stuff?

    The point is - He is young as a ghost at the end of ROTJ because that was the last point he was a complete human.
  15. FORCEFED Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 5
    <munch munch> has seen the OTDVD <continues to eat crow>
  16. Darth_Leeda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2002
    star 3
    The point is - He is young as a ghost at the end of ROTJ because that was the last point he was a complete human.

    Yeah, but his soul is the important thing. The ghost would be a projection of his soul, so he'd look like himself, when he was last good, which of course was when old as Anakin at the end of ROTJ, when he ceased to be Darth Vader.

    -DL

    EDIT: Why do you think Vader put Shaw's ghost in in the first place. To show the Good Anakin who was reborn as an OLD MAN (The one that died in the suit).
  17. Import_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    The ghost would be a projection of his soul, so he'd look like himself, when he was last good, which of course was when old as Anakin at the end of ROTJ, when he ceased to be Darth Vader.

    Naw, I think good Anakin wanted to project himself back when he looked like a cool surfer dude...so that's why he looked like ROTS Anakin and not ROTJ Anakin.

    "Duuude, I'm a ghost! Gnarly, maaan!!" [face_peace]
  18. TEXAS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 4
    I believed in this new (DVD release) ROTJ ending since day one, now that the DVD's proved it was all real, it's funny to see that ROTS's first trailer description talks of "Anakin in full Vader gear rising on some sort of operating table to which he is chained" where Darth Sidious goes "lord Vader - Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise", so a couple more weeks and this two year old theory will finally be proven right... Anakin does indeed dies at the end, and does become Darth Sidious' creature/slave after he's resurrected by his droids and forever transformed into the mechanical cyborg called Darth Vader...

    "it's aliiiiiiiiiiiiiive..." becomes "Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise...", YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES !!!

    FRANKENSTEIN THEORY BELIEVER SINCE 2003
  19. taun-thing Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 2002
    star 1
    Hey Texas! Long time no talk. Now that the original trilogy's altered to have Hayden replace Shaw, your Franky theory will be proved right! From a certain point of view to a point of view that's certain, Anakin will die and be resurrected as Darth Vader. This will be in line with Lucas' adherence to all the great myths.

    Guess who will provide the lightning to bring forth his 'creation'? For all you know, this will cause the source to age terribly as a result of expending what must be a great deal of dark force energy. This also brings another of Lucas' favourite theories into play ... the symbiont relationship between creator and creation ... and what causes Vader to be "so loyal" to his master.
  20. Buram Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 1
    Yeah nice point, that would mean that if Palps died then so would Anakin as he would have so much of Sidious's power in him.... hmmmmm that theory has come up before... it could be right, and the twist everyone is hoping for, would also be the perfect time for Sidious to turn into the OT Palps.. interesting.
  21. TEXAS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 4
    i guess, we were right then, after watching the teaser, i couldn't help but think "Frankenstein", this neat little thing was really about Anakin dying and Vader being Sidious' creature... Thanks guys, i'll resurrect this thread next may all right ? see you then...

    ps : talk to you on other threads ...
  22. MatthewZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2003
    star 4
    When the Lucas quote first came out about the "neat little thing" from the 1930's all I could think of was WWII and Hitler.

    I couldn't figure out how that fit into Episode III per se.

    But as soon as someone mentioned Frankenstein it clicked immediately.
  23. ChronWirrar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2004
    star 2
    I still don't think Anakin physically dies. Just the humanity of Anakin dies. If Anakin had died completely and Vader was just a collection of pieces brought to life, then he would show no compassion for Luke at the end of ROTJ and wouldn't have saved him. Also, spoilers have said that after the operation, Vader asks what happened to Padme and the child(ren). If this was a completely new being, he wouldn't have asked this and then shown sorrow and regret through "anguished screams." Anakin=Vader
  24. TEXAS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 4
    for TPM I had to wait 6 months to see the film because I live in Paris and the french release date wasn't may 19th but October 25th...
    I had to fly to houston to see it earlier.
    for AotC I had to wait one extra day as the film came out on May 17th in Paris, I still flew to houston to see it a day in advance, guess what?
    RotS comes out a day earlier in paris, on may 18th! YES!
    Lucas' way to aplogize to all the poor fans who had to wait 6 months in 1999. So I'll see the film 24 hours before you guys, i'll tell you how it is ok? just kidding, i won't spoil anything. It will rock anyway!!
  25. Joedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2005
    star 3
    *Long standing Frankenstein theory believer supports the the thread
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