JCC Transsexual/Transgender: The Thread

Hello, friends. I decided I would try to start my first JC thread. Apologies if I typed this too fast an hour ago.

In light of Caitlyn Jenner coming out and making waves, a lot of people have been confused. First off, let me say that most people are not acquainted with the notion that there could be about seven orientations (heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, pansexuality, autosexuality, asexuality, and transsexuality). It would be generally assumed that these orientations are due to hormones individuals are born with, whereas one's gender (macho, femme, androgynous, neutral, agender, neutrois, queer, etc.) is learned and experienced. However, it doesn't matter if the orientations are culturally conditioned.

As some of you know, I am trans. I had my gender-reassignment surgery during midsummer 2014. But I always regarded myself as female. As early as fourth grade, I was telling folks I wanted to be a girl. But I always insisted that I was lesbian. After all, most trans women are bi or, like me, lesbian, and not that many are straight (i.e. attracted to men only, and incorrectly labeled gay by society). Caitlyn Jenner tried to explain some of these concepts, but the notion of one's orientation and gender being separate is baffling to society in general. It should also be noted that, surgery or not, trans women like me are generally born with lower testosterone than the women-born-women. In some ways, we are incomplete females who feel we need surgery to become 100% female, as I did, or many of us don't feel we need a surgery. As for the trans men (or those you might call women who become men), I'm learning more about them. I'm quite gynocentric in my private and public life, and I honestly don't hang out with many males per se. I did when I was seventeen and again when I was twenty-four, but not so much now. A lot of girls like to either hate me or love me, but I was able to get used to that in college and I let that roll off my shoulders. I've primarily been celibate all my life, as most of my girlfriends were confused by how submissive I am and how I want to be taken care of as though I'm the wife. My girlfriend of one year has been great to me. She sees herself as non-gender or agender, meaning that while most people would call her a woman-born-woman, she considers herself neither female nor male and thus entirely genderless. I wish more people in society were like that.

I am starting this thread to discuss important issues facing trans women and transgender individuals in general. We've mentioned some of this in other threads. But here we can discuss the threats facing trans people. I'm sure many of you know that many trans people are murdered at a high rate and many trans individuals have taken their own lives. I myself was abused by a girlfriend twelve years ago, but the last nine years have been great. I'm especially comfortable now that I've had my surgery. The fact that I take estrogen definitely helps my mind and emotions. It's a myth to say that many women are plain crazy. Our minds are expansive and limitless sometimes, and it's all good. We talk in circles and in clusters sometimes, and I enjoy it. But I am concerned for many trans people and I want things to get better for them in this country. I myself know very few trans people. I reside in the DFW area in North Texas. Most of my friends and associates are straight women and a few non-straight women. I have worked as a high school tutor since I was twenty-three, and I sometimes feel that how I am treated is much better in the circles I reside when one compares me to how other trans women and transgender individuals are treated.

I recognize that transsexuality is confusing to people. A transsexual person can consider herself, himself, or themself to be any orientation or gender, and it depends on which individual. In the end, we're all human, and it don't matter who is what. But since our lives matter as much as anyone else's, that is why I have made this thread. Personally, I feel that now that same-sex marriage has been largely legalized almost everywhere in the country, we ought to turn our attention to this topic. I'm doing this in honor of Leelah Alcorn, a trans woman who killed herself in December 2014 after she was bullied to death by her own parents. While trans topics and sexology are not my main interests, as I consider history, feminism, sociology, and stuff like Tolkienology and Star Wars to take up more of my time, I do spend a lot of time defending trans people and I merge the topic with feminism as transfeminism. I largely agree with Julia Serano's assessments. But I'm trying to defend more trans men, as well, with acts like this.

So, yes. If any of you have any questions about trans persons, let me know. It should be noted that I do have a bit of a wry and sometimes dark sense of humor, so you'll have to bear with me. But I'll remain serious most of the time, my dear Grey Jedi and "Light" Sith.

 

Nice to meet you on here

 

I definitely prefer a world where people are free not to self identify or be identified through gender at all if that's their preference.

 

This is definitely a subject I'm still learning a lot about.

Last year I worked with someone who identified as "nonbinary" which is like beyond gender, and who wanted us to only use "they/them/their" pronouns, instead of he/him/his or she/her pronouns. It was quite an educational experience.

 

When I was at college, there was a transgender student. She was no different to any other girl, IMHO; but, sadly, some people can be very, very cruel. Probably one of the bravest individuals I have ever met - especially with the amount of crap and abuse she received.

 

As someone who's always been back-and-forth/a bit of both/six-of-one-and-half-a-dozen-of-the-other, I've found the recently increased visibility of the transgender community to be a massive comfort. Clearly-defined gender is becoming a lot less of an essential thing these days, and that's brilliant - it makes things so much easier for those who are unwilling, or unable, to define themselves as simply male or female.

 

Sorry, but do you have numbers for this or is it anecdotal? Numbers I've seen put lesbians at 1/3, the same amount as heterosexual responses.

 

Thank you, Anakinfan. The key thing I try to remind people is that transgender women are born with less testosterone than cisgender women (women-born-women). I feel that that fact is a good introduction to the topic of trans women. I honestly don't know much about trans men. I have met a few, but I just know that it's harder for a trans man to have a successful surgery. It was so easy for me to go from being an incomplete female to 100% female emotionally. The surgery and hormones just made me feel so much better. I dated a woman who is 29 like me for a while, but I'm devoted to a 20-year-old woman who acts like she's 45 like I do. Lol. She is going to inherit some music stores from her dad and she is smarter than all of TCU's professors.

Another essentialism to remember is the late Leelah Alcorn. She was a trans woman who was bullied to death by her parents. She killed herself. Sadly, so many of us are harmed by other people. Weird thing is that I'm treated very well in Fort Worth and Dallas. The only people who hate me are rich Methodists and Hooters girls, and I'm glad. Lol. Some of them stalk me online, but I ignore them. I don't know how I got to be popular in college and again recently. But I try to use it to help people of all kinds.

People get confused. Since I love women, I am a lesbian trans woman. I am gay. Leelah Alcorn was a straight woman. She was not a gay man. She was straight. A trans woman who likes men is straight, but most of us trans women are bisexual or, like me, lesbian. Not sure why that is. We really ought to treat all transsexual people better to honor those like Leelah who gave their lives so that people like me could live. Leelah wanted us to be treated better. Not just for ourselves, but for everyone in society. Ya know? We're normal. We're not freaks. I personally get along with many bisexual and straight women and a few men who are nice like brothers and uncles to me.

 

Yes, Zdarlight. I myself am very feminine, but I think there are like 50 genders out there and it has nothing to do with orientation. I say, "8 orientations, 50 genders. Who cares? We're all human." You know who you are. Don't let anyone limit you.

 

yeah afaik that's more or less what most studies point toward.

everything else she says is pretty much nuts also. like i don't really feel like addressing Satele's insanity here point by point but i'm reasonably well-informed on this topic and like basically you can assume everything she says that's not a bizarre personal overshare is... pretty much totally wrong. like... damn.

50 genders. what even lol

 

I wouldn't even put a number on the amount of orientations / genders out there. I just call it 'getting up in the morning and being whatever you are today', which is generally what I do. I understand that people like to put a label on things, and I went through a long phase in my teenage years where I WANTED a label, but these days I know it's a lot easier never to put a label on yourself or on others. Human sexuality and gender is so incredibly varied that trying to label things often does more harm than good.

One thing crazy and varied labels for gender/sexual identity do help with though, is raising awareness by making the public go 'what on EARTH does that mean?!'
So I guess that's one benefit, haha.

 

I respectfully disagree with your misogyny toward me, Trip. I'm clicking "ignore" on you. Lol. Sorry you haven't done your research, but you're like the Hooters girls who are jealous that I'm more feminine than them, and I'm more feminine than you. It's whatever. Moving on...

I agree with you Zdarlight. I was just saying it in my own way. I had just been to my girlfriend's apartment and I was really tired when I said that.

 

i wasn't aware femininity was a competition.

 

I'll avoid it in the future. Point well taken.

 

It's good. I had just gotten up when I wrote that.

It's true. I think that Zdarlight said it better than I did. I got the 50 genders thing from Facebook, since it offers people that many choices for their own identifications. I chose "Female." I think that a lot of people can be gender fluid or androngyous or neutrois. I think a lot of straight men and women can have androgynous personalities. Ya know? I apologize if I generalize sometimes. A lot of this is elementary to me. I prefer to study history and sociology per se. Ha ha.

Someone asked about why there are more bi trans women than lesbian and straight. The journal activities documenting that are from 2008, and perhaps more of us are lesbian than bi. I don't really care myself, but I do admit that most of the trans women I have met are lesbian like me.

Yes, I agree. A person's orientation really shouldn't matter. I never have got the interest. I only study it because Americans are fascinated with it. I don't care if a person is black or white, bi or straight or les, or whatever. It's a big planet. We should all share it.

What concerns me the most is African American and Mexican trans women who are victims of violence. I hope laws will be passed to protect people on the basis of gender identity. It's now a hate crime to harm gay people based on orientation in several states, but too few states offer protection on the basis of gender identity. For example, it's amazing that I've never been fired on the basis of my legal female gender in Texas. I could not finish my master's degree at Dallas Baptist University, however, because they were prejudiced that I was about to undergo my surgery. They gave me all my money back for every class and said, "Congrats for making As in counseling courses." That's part of why I became a tutor instead of a professor. So, that should technically be illegal. I had made As in Marriage Counseling and Trauma Counseling. But I don't mind. I help plenty of children learn English. I'm going to a public university to become a social worker soon. I really want to help all women who are victims of violence. Even if some don't want to help themselves, I want to at least let them know that someone cares by listening.

Also, it should be noted that not all trans women speak with feminine voices. I speak with a deep man's voice because no one can hear my female voice. I try to speak with the authority of my late grandmother, the one who worked as a county clerk and helped people. Basically, most people who know me say there is nothing masculine about me. Heh heh.

 

"Someone asked about why there are more bi trans women than lesbian and straight. The journal activities documenting that are from 2008, and perhaps more of us are lesbian than bi. I don't really care myself, but I do admit that most of the trans women I have met are lesbian like me."

Hi. Yeah, that was me, but that's not what I asked. There aren't more bi than lesbian or straight (according to the only data I can find). I was only asking if you had other data or if your evidence was anecdotal, but I see that it is the latter.

 

Do you want to be reported to Mrs Fitzgerald?!

 

Honestly, my girlfriend was robbed, and I haven't had time to pay attention to this. I'm helping her.

 

An interesting question came up today, figured I'd ask in here.

The Rocky Horror Show (the Rocky Horror stage play) is going to be done on TV (yes, I know that makes no sense) by FOX and they've cast Laverne Cox as Dr. Frank N. Furter. I've been pretty pleased by this (as well as horrified by the whole thing just because), but someone brought up a good point today that it may be offensive to actual trans people because a transvestite is totally not the same thing as a transgender person,so if they still have Laverne Cox as a man dressing as a woman, it may be offensive.

The way it was described is that a transvestite is about dressing up to be something that you are not, and transgender is becoming what you actually are -- or something to that effect. Personally, I'm just happy to see Laverne Cox in the role, but curious what others think...

 

I do find that weird because yeah, they're not the same thing. Eddie Izzard has never claimed to be a trans woman, just a man who likes to wear clothing typically associated with women in his culture.

So I do see the conflict. However, I would like to know what Ms. Cox's feelings are on this. Since she took the role, I presume she doesn't think it's offensive or contradictory, and I wouldn't at all presume to tell her what she should feel about her gender identity and acting roles.

From just my personal audience perspective, it may be a little weird to see a woman playing a man who merely dresses up as women. For instance, on Orange is the New Black when they did flashbacks to her character in her pre-op days, they did not make Ms. Cox don a fake beard and men's clothing and wigs; instead, they had her twin brother play those sections.

I'm interested in the general reaction to these issues, the trans community reaction, and your personal reaction Satele (if you have an opinion on this or if it instinctively makes you feel one way or another).

 

Now that I've helped her, I can answer. There are many professors and doctors who have written journals and articles about it. I'm honestly surprised you haven't seen it, Empire Forever. I like your profile pic, btw.

Dp4m, I like that. Cross-dressing is different than being transsexual. If I were to dress like a man, I would be cross-dressing. Therefore, I was in drag until my twenties. Ha ha ha! Laverne Cox is awesome.

I do find it weird, too, Solojones. But you would probably find it weird that I can do an excellent imitation of Jim Carrey's Grinch and Heath Ledger's Joker with my voice. People love me to do talent shows of them, and I've impersonated the Grinch's voice since high school and the Joker's since college. Vocally, I can imitate male characters. I can't sing well, however. I listen to female stuff, like Within Temptaiton, The Birthday Massacre, Avril Lavigne, Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, etc. But I also listen to stuff males do, such as Sabaton, Disturbed, etc. I just like rock and metal, I guess. Ha ha ha! They say I'm a combination of a sorority girl, which I practically was a college, along with a goth, a humanitarian, and an intellectual. I'm a dork. Lol. One of my sisters said she's never met a trans woman who was put together like me. I think it's because I act and dress like I'm in my 40s sometimes. I'm not sure.

One thing that should be said is that it's not abnormal for trans women to find cisgender women attractive or to date them. I only went on a few dates with a trans woman in January 2013. All of my girlfriends were born female. I can't say I've ever been as crazy about any girlfriend as I am now about my current one. I kept saying, "I'm crazy!" to my big sister-figure and others this week because I gave my gf a huge valentine card that I made her myself. I'm mainly drawn to her personality and intelligence, though she is certainly more beautiful than any I dated before. She looks like a goddess. I hate to say it that way, but it's true. We both have PTSD from being abused in the past, but we're very happy and we don't give two defecations about discriminators.

One restaurant banned a bunch of Hooters girls for stalking me in the women's room. The main discrimination I have faced was from Methodist male ministers in downtown Fort Worth and from Hooters girls in NRH. Otherwise, I was surprised by how popular I am. I try to use it to help others. I actually know more trans women now than I have in my whole life. I'm glad I can help them as well as other people. Generally speaking, the main women who support me are either bisexual women or heterosexual women. The only exception were a couple of bisexual women at Texas Wesleyan and the many bisexual women at Hooters NRH. Granted, these were all bi women who hate bisexual women for some bizarre reason. I'm as much concerned about how bisexual women are abused as I am about trans women being harmed.

 

I think the main thing is that people just treat each other well no matter their gender identity or orientation.

Unfortunately it is true that there are transphobic homosexuals and bisexuals. From my experience though they are tiny minority. Bigots can be bigots regardless of who they are, sadly.

Right now, I am going through some kind of gender exploration. Luckily, the people in my life I have shared this with have been extreely supportive. I am quite nervous about expressing anything in public yet.