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Travel Time in the Clone Wars

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Executor_of_Order66, May 12, 2010.

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  1. Executor_of_Order66

    Executor_of_Order66 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 14, 2009
    I know shows are told in an allotted time so I am trying to figure out an IU explanation for this.

    I am having trouble understanding just how hyperspace can get characters from end of the galaxy to another so fast.

    For example in ROTS how is Palpitine able to rush to Mustafar so quick to save Anakin.

    Also in TCW in season one Obi-Wan and Anakin in Mystery of a thousand Moons are able to travel to Iego and back to Naboo in less then 48 hours. Then in season two we have R2 travel all the way back to the Jedi temple.

    Sometimes when they travel it seems like there is time like in Voyage of Temptation and in other times it seems like it seems like time is not an issue. The only thing I can think of is smaller ships are able to travel faster then bigger ones. Thoughts.
     
  2. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    There simply is no IU explanation. It's bad writing and there's nothing for it.
     
  3. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 2, 2009
    Agreed. Possible the most egregious example is in Artoo come Home.

    R2 manages to fly from the outer rim to Coruscant in about twenty minutes, and return with a rescue team in about an hour.
     
  4. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 29, 2002
    It would have been much more plausible if R2 flew to a Republic Star Destroyer/ Jedi Cruiser under the command of Plo and Ahsoka in a nearby system which picked up the ship that had previously collected the escape pods.
     
  5. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    Exactly. And that's what infuriates me the most about these plot holes in TCW, most of them could be easily solved if the writers just gave the whole thing a little bit more thought. Most decent solutions wouldn't require any more screen time or new models.
     
  6. rumblewagon

    rumblewagon Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 24, 2004
    If you think you're infuriated by these plot holes, I nearly tossed my laptop through the nearest window when R2-D2 flew back and forth so fast in that episode. Thankfully, I kept my cool which enabled me to download the following week's episode from iTunes. But I tell you, I was a hair-trigger away from completely losing it.
     
  7. MattDoc

    MattDoc Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 10, 2009
    I think this is one of those "you just have to get over it" types of things. Part of the fun of this series is the new and interesting worlds they go to. All of those worlds can't be in the core.
    If I remember right, 24 got the same kind of complaints when it first came out. People said that there is no way that Jack could drive from point A to B in X minutes like he does in the show.
    Sometimes you just have to look past things like this. The creators have to make a decision and they'll usually opt to keep the flow of the story going instead of worrying much about distances and times.
    That being said, I'd be willing to bet that Dave Filoni is very aware of these issues and prolly hates that they do it as well, but it is sometimes a necessary evil.
     
  8. JediBendu

    JediBendu Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 13, 1999
    We should perhaps consider that what we know about the layout of the GFFA may actually be completely wrong. Sure there's a map, but we've never seen on in the movies or Clone Wars - maybe some of those distances aren't what we'd come to expect from the EU sources we have.

    Though I would love the Clone Wars to show us a galactic map with the zones of control on it, and have droid pushing little models of fleets around on the map WWII style, then we might get a better sense of the scale of the conflict.
     
  9. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    Yes, but how would it break the flow of the story to simpply switch the setting of the Jedi temple for a Star Destroyer stationed in the Outer Rim?

    I can more easily understand, and therefore forgive, the messed up travel times in Ep3. In that story the whole plot necessitated that characters traveled quickly from Coruscant to Mustafar. They could have made Mustafar a Core World, but that would require a bit of extra explanation as to why the Separatists leaders would hide there (maybe something like hiding close to teh enemy, where they would least expect it). In R2 Come Home, though, the plot could easily accomodate a different, closer location without any strain whatsoever.


    We don't have to see a map to know that the Outer Rim (the farthest point from the center of the galaxy) is pretty much as far as it gets to Coruscant, near the Core. And this is a galaxy we're talking about, how small could it be? We also know that the trip from Tatooine to Alderaan must have taken quite a long time, since that was enough for Luke to learn the basics of Lightsaber Combat and even master the Force enough to deflect blaster bolts.
     
  10. fanboyskywalker

    fanboyskywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 3, 2008
    Do we know the exact time it took R2 to fly to Coruscant and back again? Who is to say Mace and Anakin weren't under the rubble for a couple of hours.

    I honestly didn't notice it this time around, perhaps because I did enjoy the episode was caught up in the pace so didn't have time to notice it.


    My own take was that it maybe took a day or two to travel from the core to one side of the galaxy via hyperspace. Maybe 4 days or a week to travel from one side of the outer rim to the other, but that has since been lowered to 3 to 4 days, depending on how many adjustments, stops and course corrections to avoid asteroids and black holes and such, need to be made.

    This whole business of jumping from Coruscant to Mustafar in like 20 minutes is crazy! Half the fun of hyperspace travel is the danger of doing it, as pointed out by Han Solo in ANH. And then Palpy comes along and makes it look so easy. Of course, it is Palpy so maybe he had so long forgotten Sith shortcut mapped out to key systems.

    In any case, does anyone remember in Empire how fast Leia and Han got from Hoth to Bespin without a hyperdrive. I don't see anyone complaining about that. You know why, great writing made us overlook the little flaws and allowed our minds (because we loved ESB so much) to make excuses and fill in the blanks as to why that would happen.

     
  11. Executor_of_Order66

    Executor_of_Order66 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Jul 14, 2009
    I've always taken it that it took month to get to Bespin just so Luke had more time to train with Yoda. However, I just thought of another way to make it so that hyperspace is faster in some instances in others. We all know that there are major hyperspace lanes so maybe if there are straight shots to a planet you can travel faster in hyperspace rather if theres twists and turns around stars and planets you don't go as fast in order to avoid these problems. So in R2 goes home the planet he was on was on a major hyperspace lane (retcon) which allowed him to travel at higher speeds and that maybe Anakin and Mace where stuck down there for maybe a day.
     
  12. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    We don't know how much it took R2 to go to Coruscant and back. And yes, it might have been relatively fast, due to some retconnable super-fast hyperlane. HOWEVER, no matter how fast R2 managed to get to Coruscant, there can be no doubt that it would have been much faster (and therefore made much more sense) to get help in any number of allied planets, outposts or stationed cruisers along the way.


    I've always considered that this realspace trip from Hoth to Bespin took quite a long time (days or weeks), which would account for Luke's training time. It's not something that bothers anyone because of two factors: The plot doesn't require them to get to Bespin in any sort of hurry, and the placement of the two planets had not been established as being on opposite sides of the galaxy. There was, therefore, room to establish that Bespin was indeed about the closest available system to Hoth, and thus Han's decision makes sense. R2's decision, however, doesn't. His master could die at any moment by that bridge collapsing, and yet the little droid decides to cross an entire galaxy to get help? This forces the episode to bend the rules of the galaxy by portraying a travel time that seems to have taken no more than an hour...
     
  13. Darth_Zandalor

    Darth_Zandalor Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 2, 2009
    Artoo definitely traveled in under an hour.

    The bridge is still collapsing, and there was no real sign of any time passing judging by the fact that the source of light never changed through the entire episode.
     
  14. DarthBoba

    DarthBoba Manager Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 29, 2000
    To be fair, showing significant amounts of time lapsing during hyperspace travel has never been on the priority list in SW. A good example is Luke going from Hoth to Dagobah: These aren't particularly close together as far as I know, and Luke looks more or less the same when he arrives on Dagobah as when he left Hoth-he hasn't grown facial hair, off the top of my head. So unless he broke out his razor mid-trip, it didn't take him anything more than a day to travel between the two planets.

    A better example is Maul's trip from Coruscant to Tattooine:


    -Queen Amidala's ship lands on Tatooine around noon, given that the suns are shining almost directly overhead and Mos Espa seems to be in the full swing of it's daily routine when they arrive.

    -Qui-Gon, Jar-Jar, Padme, and R2-D2 venture into Mos Espa in search of replacement parts for their ship, where they meet Watto, Anakin, and Sebulba. The sandstorm begins, and Anakin invites them to his home.

    -Queen Amidala receives the forged transmission from Sio Bibble, pleading her to communicate with him (and thus reveal her location). Although she apparently acquiesces to Obi-Wan's instructions not to send any transmissions, she probably finds a way to send a transmission when he is distracted. We know this because somehow, Darth Sidious obtains a communications trace on their location at Tatooine.

    -Anakin brings his new friends home and introduces everyone. They have lunch, thus indicating that this probably occurs around high noon. Anakin tells them that he can help them leave the planet by winning the podrace which is "tomorrow."

    -Darth Sidious instructs Darth Maul to go to Tatooine.

    -After lunch, Anakin spends the afternon working on his podracer. Later that afternoon, Qui-Gon makes his bet with Watto, and as night falls, Qui-Gon takes Anakin's blood sample for analysis.

    -Darth Maul lands at dusk, and begins searching for the Jedi. In a nice touch of realism, we can actually see Darth Maul's ship heading toward the transition from the sunlit side of Tatooine to its shadow side, thus establishing that he already has a pretty good idea of where the Jedi are on Tatooine, and also establishing that the visual effects artists deliberately ensured that his angle of approach would be consistent with a twilight landing.
    -
    The next morning, Anakin wins the podrace.


    Maul gets from the Core to the Outer Rim in the space of an afternoon or so.


     
  15. Mange

    Mange Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2003
    No, it's not. The movies are consistently showing fast travel times (when they can be ascertained). It's the EU that's in the wrong.
     
  16. fanboyskywalker

    fanboyskywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 3, 2008
    Well, I'm okay with R2 going straight to Coruscant because, dramatically, it is a lot stronger than him going to a cruiser. But I do agree that they could have had him go straight to Plo and Ahsoka in some near-by starsystem for help, but I promise you that people on here would then complain along the lines of "what are Plo and Ahsoka doing together in a near-by system? Why isn't she with Anakin? How convienent Plo and Ahsoka are so close." In the episode, I liked that R2 barged into the council meeting. It was a very R2 moment and showed the urgency of the situation.

    I think we just need to accept at this point that the show isn't going to have the kind of logic and consistency we want.
     
  17. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    Yeah, people would probably still complain about that, but it wouldn't be any different from Ahsoka being left behind in the Jedi Temple with Plo Koon for no good reason. So, no loss there.

    I'm still refusing to. In my opinion Season 2 showed that the writers CAN write storylines that flow cohesively without the viewer needing to remove his brain in order to enjoy it. Sure there were slips, and some major ones, but even though I know you don't agree with me, I still retain that this problem was diminuished in season 2, and therefore I will expect the show to continue improving in that direction.
     
  18. Mange

    Mange Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2003
    A little more than that perhaps. According to the Inside the Worlds... books, Tatooine is located 43,000 light-years from Coruscant. With the following alternatives, as postulated by TPM, that gives us:

    Alternative A) If Maul's travel time was six hours, that's 7,167 ly/h (or roughly 62.7 million c)
    Alternative B) If Maul's travel time was twelve hours, that's 3,583 ly/h (or roughly 31.3 million c)
    Alternative C) If Maul's travel time was eighteen hours, that's 2,389 ly/h (or roughly 20.9 million c)

    According to the Atlas, the SW-galaxy is 120,000 ly across. Disregarding the fuel etc, it would therefore be possible for Maul to cross the galaxy in between 16 and 50 hours.

    The distance between Coruscant and Mustafar is 53,000 ly (as per the same source as above). Unfortunately, ROTS doesn't narrow the elapsed time down as the case is with Maul's journey in TPM (but I don't believe that Anakin was lying on the ground for very long).

    Why would hyperspace travel be limited to the hyperlanes (trade routes)?
     
  19. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    But do we know for sure that the dusk when Maul arrived on Tatooine was on the same day that Qui-Gon and co. arrived there as well? It always seemed to me that the group spent the night on Shmi's house, waiting for the storm to pass, and went to Watto's shop to propose the race deal the next day. The film doesn't establish anything one way or the other to either say that they were there for a number of days or to say that it was all in a single day. For all I know the stay on Tatooine could have lasted a week...

    It is a different case than the messed up travel times between Coruscant and Mustafar on Ep3. There we have clear indicators that the scenes are tied closely together, with no room to expand the timeline and allow for a more believable travel time.

    It isn't, but it's faster and safer to travel through them.
     
  20. Mange

    Mange Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2003
    No. Anakin specifically says that the Boonta Eve race is "tomorrow". That narrows it down (if one looks at it OOU, the screenplay infers that the events you mention, the deal etc., takes place later on the same day after the storm has passed).
     
  21. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    Right you are! In the meal scene Anakin says the race is "tomorrow" so that throws my theory out of the window. I could push it and say that the meal scene could take place in the next day after they go to the house seeking shelter, but that would be really stretching it into silly territory. So it seems Maul goes from Coruscant to Tatooine from late morning to dusk, which gives us about 8-10 hours at the most. That's fast, but it's still way better than the ludicrous Coruscant-Outer Rim travel times observed in Ep3 and R2 Come Home.
     
  22. Mange

    Mange Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2003
    While I haven't seen R2 Come Home yet (CN Sweden has only aired up to Weapons Factory), a 1.5 hour round-trip (as Darth_Zandalor described further above) does sound ludicrous.:)
     
  23. fanboyskywalker

    fanboyskywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 3, 2008
    I think it comes down to what Gry said about there being wiggle room or not. So much was happening in TPM with Maul coming I didn't notice it, and I guess my brain said okay, some time has passed between when they went for shelter and this meal and it's possible more time has passed than they are letting on (kind of like in ESB with Luke on Dagobah), but with Mustafar the scenes are so closely linked it really makes it obvious that they are cutting corners with the travel time. Same thing with R2 Come Home, on second viewing it really stuck out. I still don't mind it terribly, but on one had I don't like when shows break the rules for the sake of the story. It seems cheap and lazy and feels like cheating when, certainly, another writer could figure out a way to make it all work.

    From what Craig Titley said about writing in season 2, George breaks down the entire episode and they just write the script and flesh out the dialogue. But beat by beat George meets with the writers and tells them the story and they don't question him, they just write down what he says and do it. I can understand someone not wanting to speak up to George, and even if they did (as with Dave) I doubt he would listen. He'd probably just find some way to explain it away that works for him and indicate that's the end of the discussion. Case in point, the Jango Fett exploding helmet.
     
  24. Mange

    Mange Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 11, 2003
    No, that's not the case with TPM (at least not after the party arrives at Anakin's hovel). You're quite right in that we don't know how much time Luke passes on Dagobah though and that we can't ascertain the travel time between Coruscant and Mustafar and back.

    Perhaps R2 went to "Ludicrous speed". :p
     
  25. Gry Sarth

    Gry Sarth Ex 2x Banhammer Wielding Besalisk Mod star 5

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    Jun 24, 1999
    Now THAT's an explanation I can get onboard with! [face_laugh]
     
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