Trial of an Emperor

Crap, pressed return before I typed the actual message lol

Ok so here's the question, and it refers to both the PT and OT, which is why it's here.

If Palpatine was put on trial, what would have happened?

If the Jedi put him on trial in ROTS, would he have walked because of his control over the courts?

What about the rebels in ROTJ? Did they ever consider trying to capture him and put him on trial? If so, would they have had any legal right to do so?

Two time periods...ROTS and ROTJ - Palpatine's trial...could either trial have achieved anything?

 

Yes. He had corrupted the Senate by this point, as shown by the fact that even though they had proof that Nute Gunray was guilty, he walked free.

No, they wouldn't. The Empire was still the sovereign government of the galaxy. They also had no way to capture him given that he'd obliterate any non-Force Sensitive who tried to arrest him, and the last Jedi(Luke) wasn't strong enough to do so.

 

What would the Jedi put him on trial for? Aside from offending their delicate emotions by being a Sith, he hadn't done anything they could prove.

And the rebels are rebels. They don't have a legal leg for themselves to stand on, let alone to put another person on trial.

 

Well I think that Sith Lords were the enemies of the Republic as well as the Jedi (based on the Lucasverse idea that the Sith ruled the galaxy till the Jedi came along, defeated them and the Republic was then formed)and if that is the case the n the Jedi may have had grounds to arrest him.

As for Return of the Jedi...well if the Emperor was captured, with the senate gone and Vader (who would probably have been next in line for the throne) the running of the Empire would have fallen under the control of the Grand Moffs.

But the problem is, while in EU, the Empire continues on after the battle of Endor, in the Lucasverse, once the Death Star was destroyed and the Emperor killed, that was it, freedom was restored to the galaxy.

So let's just speculate for a moment, that the Emperor was captured, the Senate was reformed and the republic was restored.

What would Palpatine's trial have been like? Would it have been fair? Would the courts seek to punish him for his crimes, with no regard for due process and justice? Or would Palpatine have the upper hand? Would he have enough influence, despite being a prisoner, to weasel his way out of a conviction?

ANd in the PT era...would the respected Jedi, even if the had evidence, even have a chance of getting conviction in a court that was corrupted and loyal to Palpatine? Or would the corrupt finally see their chance to overthrow the Chancellor who had gained influence and a stranglehold over them for so long?

 

What would the Jedi put him on trial for? Aside from offending their delicate emotions by being a Sith, he hadn't done anything they could prove.

The Sith were leading the Separitists. This was a common fact even Palpatine admitted at the beginning of ROTS ("Quick, get help. He's a sith lord. You're no match for him."). If they could prove he was a Sith that would prove he was a traitor to the Republic.

 

Right. Actually that might make an interesting roleplaying game or fan film - The Trial of Darth Sidious. Oh well, off to write another outline that will never be turned into a film

 

Actually, all it would prove was he's a Sith. That in and of itself is not a crime.
There was nothing to tie him to the Seperatists, even Grevious didn't know they were the same guy and he had Palps in the next room.

 

No, they wouldn't. The Empire was still the sovereign government of the galaxy. They also had no way to capture him given that he'd obliterate any non-Force Sensitive who tried to arrest him, and the last Jedi(Luke) wasn't strong enough to do so.[/quote]

Actually,any "sovereign" or sovereign power who is defeated is liable to be prosecuted by the legal system put in place by those that win the war.

The "Rebels" were built out of the remnants from the original Republic that were against the formation of the Empire and during the empire's rule it condemned many rebels for their various involvements in what would be called subversive or traitorous acts of war.

Then there's the Jedi - they were executed under secret orders of Palpatines' that he had set into the Clones' commands which is dubious when it comes to "legality".

King Charles I of England was beheaded by his opponents when his forces lost the war and it was some time before his son Charles II was restored to the throne.

Adolf Hitler made sure there was never a trial as he knew he would be reduced to a pathetic figure by his enemies before his inevitable execution.

This is evidenced as the behaviour of conquerors in the trial and execution of Saddam Hussein.

Whether it's right or wrong(I am not saying either way here),in the images and comments shown to the world audience Saddam is portrayed to be a pathetic former dictator who is just a man found guilty of crimes by a court deemed to be legal in world standards of law.

Legalities(like history) are made and governed by those that win the war.

On the point of Palpatine being able to prevent being apprehended alive I'd agree he do damage and rather die before the dishonor of being defeated and captured

 

Jedisithor has already pointed out that the Sith have a recognized reputation as being enemies of the Republic and tried to take over the galaxy until the Jedi got in their way so being a Sith IS a crime. If the Senators learn that Palpatine is a Sith Lord, they will realise that he is responsible for all the events that took place in the PT: The Trade Federation's invasion on Naboo, the Seperatist Movement, and the Clone Wars. As for there being nothing to tie Palpatine to the Seperatists, he flat out confessed to Anakin that he's a Sith Lord, the Senators know that Obi-wan was held captive by the Seperatists on Geonosis so they would want to know if Obi-wan learned anything else from either Dooku or Gunray before being rescued, and the fact that the Seperatists know that Darth Sidious exists is enough to tie them to Palpatine.

 

I'd say it would probably go like the Nuremburg trials for the Rebellion-they'd probably have to create laws to try him under, I'd think.

As for things they could try him for...depends on what they knew, really. Bail knew that Palpatine was Sidious; whether the rest of the Rebellion leadership knew this is not for sure at this point, although with 19 years between ROTS and ANH, he'd be a fool not to have told them at some point.

However, knowing is not the same as proving. There *may* be a few people still alive who knew the details of Palpatine's schemes, Mas Amedda and Sly Moore amongst them. Whether or not they'd be willing to testify against a man who can kill them by thinking about it is obviously an open question; my guess would be that they'd be like "um, how about are you crazy?".

Ironically, the best time to try Palpatine would've been if ROTS had gone differently, and Dooku and the rest of the Seps had been captured, rather than killed. Dooku knows it all-the plot to overthrow the Republic, Palpatine's dual identity, and his identity as the Sep leader. That alone is treason; the war, and the atrocities committed within, were at Sidious' order; and finally, if Mace had captured him, they'd have Anakin in the box presumably as well-Palpatine *told* him he was Sidious, and as I said above, the war can be proven to be entirely Sidious' plan.

However, again, it's a matter of whether or not people would be willing to testify against such a man. I'm of the opinion the Forces' will was for Sidious to die, although not in the manner he nearly did in ROTS, and as such, I think any trial would have failed. He's exactly what Mace said-even discredited and cast from power, such a man is quite possibly too dangerous to leave alive.

 

Exactly, nicely said PMT! Although, I think the fact that he was a Sith alone classified him as a traitor. Remember Mace: "He is the traitor ahhh!"

 

Actually,any "sovereign" or sovereign power who is defeated is liable to be prosecuted by the legal system put in place by those that win the war.[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't know he meant post-Endor.

 

I meant both PT era and post-Endor era.

While palpatine has a lot of influence and a lot of support during the PT era, and would more than likely find a way to win his trial...you have to wonder about what would happen after ROTJ.

Would he get a fair trial? Would the death penalty be involved? What would the charges be?

 

Post endor he'd get something similar to the Sadamm trial. PT era, Mace was right he controls the courts he would be acquitted and the Jedi would probably be seen as oppressing his religion. a great little tidbit from the ROTS novel has palpatine ask them when did it become illegal to hold Sith religious beliefs, and that they have laws to prevent the sort of discrimination the jedi are practicing.

 

first yes he would get a fair trial .second no idea .third high treason ,starting the clone wars ,genocide ,mass murder .

 

1. He would get a fair trial in that he was certainly guilty and would be proven so.(in otherwords he'd have no chance of being found innocent, but after everything he's done, it's public knowledge that he isn't given that his empire killed billions of innocents on Alderaan alone.) He'd especially have no chance if Anakin is still alive in this scenario.

2. Probably, it depends on who chooses the sentence.


3. High Treason, Genocide, Murder, Conspiracy to commit murder, there's also the this excerpt from the Declaration of Rebellion(it's an EU thing

"The history of the present Galactic Empire is of repeated injuries upon its members, with the direct objective of establishing you, Emperor Palpatine, as absolute tyrant over the Galaxy:

You have disbanded the Senate, the voice of the people;
You have instituted a policy of blatant racism and genocide against the nonhuman peoples of the Galaxy;
You have overthrown the chosen leaders of planets, replacing them with Moffs and Governors of your choice;
You have raised taxes without the consent of those taxed;
You have murdered and imprisoned millions without benefit of trial;
You have unlawfully taken land and property;
You have expanded the military far beyond what is necessary and prudent, for the sole purpose of oppressing your subjects."

I'm sure they'd work those into his sentencing somehow.

 

Actually, he could be charged with war crimes.

Being a Sith in itself would not likely be illegal, but Sith influence could be traced back to the Naboo invasion. Maul's presence at a seized and Federation operated castle shows the Sith were in control, since he wouldn't have needed to storm the castle like the Jedi and royal entourage did.

Also established was Dooku as the Sith heading the Separtist movement, and being the apprentice, took his orders from the master, who also happened to be the Supreme Chancellor heading the Republic war movement.

Without investigating the creation of the clone army, which could most likely be attributed to him, via Dooku, the charges are very damning.

The problem would have been the trial itself. True, the Senate was saturated with corruption, but that might have worked against Palpatine in the end. If they were willing to work for the Sith for their own corrupt desires, for power, I think they would have betrayed him and gone ahead with a trial so as to disassociate themselves from him. Basically, the jig would have been up. Sidious' power and influence came from working in the shadows, being the unseen force working with law and order that he had not yet taken full control of. In chains, he would have been useless, and basically the two-faced Senators could have very well put on the mask of virtue and mock outrage, claiming manipulation and wanting the best for the Republic. They could have hung him out to dry.

 

A pre-endor trial of Palpatine....?

I'd like to hear how anyone would hypothesise that that could happen.

The Rebels were struggling to win the war in a logistical sense and what court system did they have in place that could convict him?

Mace was absolutely right that he was too dangerous to let live and the rebels would've known this too.

If an assasination plot conducted by the Rebels succeeded then Vader(or any number of pretenders)would've assumed control and the Rebels would still have a galactic war to win.

I know the ROTJ novel said that the Emperor was the cohesive bind that held the Empire together in a mystical(Force-related)sense but it's doubtful that the infrastructure Palps set up from TPM to ROTJ would fall to pieces overnight just cause he dies.

Idealogically,I'm sure that enough of the rebels would've gone for the assasination aspect but there'd be some that would not agree with it and doubt it's possibility of success.

The plot as it pans out works best logically from a storyline point of view(second death star plotline not-withstanding).

Vader was Palps means to gaining control and was his means to losing it too,hence Anakin/Vader completes his destiny.

 

If there was a trial for Palpatine, the movie would have ground to a boring, Star Trekish halt.

 

star trekish halt, very funny =) and true

PT no proof whatsoever, Anakin could testify sure, thats called heresay(sp?)and the fact that his kidnapping and raising of an army to defend the republic point so far in the direction of his innocence, he could have no pull with the senate and would still win before lunch

OT if the rebelscum was lucky enough to capture the flippin emporer and didnt off him imediately, they could i guess proceed to trial...then reference Jamiebaccas funny yet true star trek burn =P

 

It's not heresay if Palpatine flat out told Anakin that he's a Sith Lord and plus, as I already mentioned the Senators know that Obi-wan was held captive by the Seperatists on Geonosis so they would want to know if he learned anything else before he was rescued. Finally, the fact that the Seperatists know that Darth Sidious exists makes them witnessess which is why Sidious told Anakin to kill them all.

 

heresay is exactly that, someone claiming something they cant PROVE, no doubt he told Anakin, but unless jedis have a tape recorder in that utility belt its a moo point(friends anyone =P)same goes for Obi-wan on geonosis, Dooku told him a sith was in control of the senate, didnt mention any names tho, not only is that pretty vague but it also came from the mouth of a bad guy. as for the witnesses, good luck handing out supenas to the heads of an enemy army you are at war with to testify against a guy they dont even know for a fact is Sidious

 

Just because Dooku and the Seperatists are the bad guys doesn't mean that we can dismiss any information they have and the Jedi had to figure that out the hard way when Palpatine took out the Mace Windu posse and intiated the Order 66 slaughter. Dooku didn't have to mention names because the Senators know that the only way Darth Sidious can control the Republic is by becoming the Supreme Chancellor. The Seperatists would know this too since it was Sidious that kept them out of jail after 4 trials in the Supreme Court. They also know that only a Supreme Chancellor is in charge of the courts like Mace Windu mentioned so they would've figured out that Palpatine is Darth Sidious especially after learning as everybody else that the Jedi are being massacred throughout the galaxy.

So many links are pointing directly at Palpatine and his admission to Anakin is the final nail in the coffin.

 

being that we are all objective observers of the saga i see why you say this, in your post you use the word KNOW alot, and if you substitute that word with PROVE/PROOF/BE ABLE TO PROVE(you get it)you would find your statement makes no sense as far as trial law is concerned. my initial post separates the time of PT and OT, amd while we cant dismiss Dooku because of the bad guy factor we can dismiss it because there is no evidence that what he is saying is true false or otherwise. post slaughter of Mace and company sure thats proof, but at that point the order is given and the republic is lost. the only opporitunity would be prior to Mace dying. if he confronted Palps and Palps said"ok arrest me", there would be no evidence that wasnt heresay.
the one incident of Mace's confrontation is the crucial point, but it is a catch 22, the only way he can prove Palps is guilty is by dying, and then its too late.

its tough to put a nail into the coffin if a court wont let you have any nails.

 

anakin was a jedi which was almost the same as a policman .if a member of the goverment was to say to a policeman that he was taking drugs that would be enough to be arreted