TRIALS.

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Sith-Lord-Gunray, May 21, 2010.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    What if instead of the unorganized methods of banning/punishing people that always have controversies and arguing and take forever, we had TRIALLSSSSSS. We'd have a jury of regular users, a judge who is a random member of MS, and the "lawyers" would be mods chosen by the victim.

    It sounds incredibly stupid, but think about it - it actually could work if tweaked. And needless to say, the current system is flawed.
  2. Slowburn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2010
    star 4
    Well, I do like the idea but I don't imagine the mod population would go for it. The need for lawyers isn't necessary in this case, being that a person could represent himself and his views better than a mod. I could understand how influence holds a lot of weight on these boards, but not so much if this were put into effect. Perhaps some bans need a third party involved to hear the fairness, which is why the collection of peers seems to be a good idea to me. Something as simple as cursing on the forums wouldn't need this pizazz, but for less-direct opinion calls I could see how this could be helpful. It just kind of sounds to be a game in the way you're putting it, and I think that would be a bit much though. If these were simple and direct trials, though, you have my vote.

    And I do agree that the current system appears to be flawed. I've seen a few mods take themselves too seriously since I joined, while others were a bit more understanding and mellow. The quick-trigger calls of the former do seem a little like an unquestionable dictatorship, and I think the normal users should have a little more say over that.
  3. Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    I think we'll need a trial to determine the legality of this.
  4. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    Because the mods love banning people. :rolleyes:
  5. FlareStorm Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 6
    We do not have "unorganized methods of banning/punishing people."

    If a mod bans you, that's it. The other mods stick by their decision. Pretty organized and efficient IMO.
  6. Dingo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    Technically you could say we already have trials, the equivalent of a bench trial. And given that the actions are plain to see as text on a screen then there isn't a need for any of the time-wasting of presentation of cases and waffling summations (seriously, do you want to let Jello have a go? He'd make one of my essay posts look minuscule) so it proceeds straight to the judgement and then sentencing stages if required.

    So wish granted, we can all go home.
  7. Yodasbadgirl1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2009
    star 5
    But what if you have a problem with a mod what happens then. If all the mods stand together united, where do the rest of us stand. I understand rules are put in place to protect everyone using the boards but what happens if a mod is the one breaking the rules or allowing the rules to be bent for some and not for other's.

    Sound's like a dictatorship to me. (Thank you Padame for the line)

    Hell I am scared to post this for fear of being modded.
  8. Skiara ~• Manager WNU •~ ~• RSA FFC •~

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 10
    There's the moderator complaint process. It's there in case a user feels like a mod is doing wrong. Using this, and the admins take a closer look.
  9. Dingo Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 5
    Okay, serious time then.

    It never has been the case of "one mod bans, everyone else stands in line behind it no matter what". There have been some knock-down arguments over bans at times (so annoyed that a particular one from 2001 was deleted, it was fun to watch), and at any point in time if a person has an issue with a moderator they should first take it up with the moderator in question, and then to the administrators. They will listen, and deal with it from there. Sometimes though, people need to accept the chance they they are either wrong, or interpret the rules differently to the way that those of us who are tasked to enforce them do.

    The only people that should fear being banned are those that are consciously posting against the rules. At any single point in time anyone is welcomed and encouraged to talk to any moderator if they do perceive the rules in a fashion different to us. But considering that the vast majority of us are adults, one would hope that it would be done so in a manner fitting both this and the fact that you are typing out what you are 'saying', and thus this comes with an inbuilt ability to check that you are sending something that is reasonable and not a spiteful, raving rant.

    And people need to accept the fact that the best they could ever hope for in terms of the running of this board in real-world equivalence is an oligarchy. It's been this way for over 10 years, and isn't likely to change any time soon.
  10. Yodasbadgirl1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2009
    star 5
    Does anyone check the e-mails sent out by the moderator giving the ban? second checks it to see if it is appropriate and not slanderious.
  11. DarthXan318 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 6
    Are you talking about the email responses to unban requests? We can all see those - both the responses and the unban requests themselves.
  12. Yodasbadgirl1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2009
    star 5
  13. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Yes, the admins (and probably the majority of mods) check the unban request log on a regular basis. I personally check it at least once a day.

    If you have a specific complaint, please bring it up with either myself or one of the other admins (Grimby the Hutt or LAJ_FETT).
  14. Slowburn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2010
    star 4
    Most probably don't but I wouldn't put it past one or two.

    A discussion behind the scenes isn't much of a trial. I will agree that, for most bans, this would be unnecessary. I think a person being able to defend himself without a mod "beefing up his e-warnings" when the ban is more of an opinion call though; when an action isn't necessarily against the TOS or individual board rules but the mod takes it upon himself to shut them up anyway. When that happens, it's at the least fair for the person to be able to tell their side of the story as opposed to the mod going back to his forum and calling e-crime punished.

    This is, for the most part, refreshing to hear. It just seems as if mod opinions are regarded as superior to everyone else's, which shouldn't be the case. As you said, the general members could be wrong at tiny little points, and the way I see it one or two mods could be as well. That is why I supported this thread, so people's voices could be heard (in the few cases of bans that need interpreting) early on as opposed to being shut up by a ban and having to contact a mod afterward.

    And it is good that all Unban Requests are accessible to all mods, but the system itself seems a little archaic after the ban is done. Perhaps this trial thing is a little much. I suggest that the ban page (if you will) dispenses with unban requests and gives the banned member a little more of an option, like "Contact Administrator" and "Contact Banning Mod" or something to that effect. The current Unban Request system, from the normal user's point of you, looks a lot like a mail bin. It's accessible to everyone, but who wants to shuffle through all of that unless you're looking for something? That is why I believe a more direct option is needed.
  15. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    Whoa sorry for the late reply to this. I'm not actually dissing the system or anything, if that's what it looks like. I'm just saying that maybe there's a way to improve it so it's a bit more efficient. What we have currently works, but there's always room for improvement.
  16. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    I remember banning a certain someone and made a bunch of bunch of people mad. You can't win em all. But like Dingo said there is a system in place to voice your opinion if a moderator is over stepping their boundaries.
  17. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    This trials thing could work for other stuff around here (ie: like a decision to keep or not keep certain threads, games going in a forum), but not for bans.

    2008-2009 L.A. Lakers: World Champions!:cool:

  18. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
    Once again, Dingo posted pretty much what I wanted to say, only about 50 times better. :p

    Don't forget that if you are banned and you feel the banning is unjust, you are allowed to log in with a sock account and PM either the banning moderator or an admin to discuss the ban. Of course, you are not allowed to post with the sock account (and you will be banned immediately if you do), except in cases where your account doesn't have at least 20 posts and cannot send PMs. You are allowed to post in the "getting 20 posts" thread in the Welcome New Users forum to get up to 20 posts even if you are banned.
  19. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Every mod is required to check up on the unban requests, and people are sent reminders if there's a request waiting for them. One advantage of having our names all brightly colored is that it's very easy to tell who the unban request is meant for, because it indicates the banning mod next the the request.
  20. Gene_Hunt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2007
    hahaha. Oh dear. If I posted a thread suggesting mods should run each of their posts past a 'buddy' who isn't a mod - y'know - just to make sure they gave the right impression to the common man/woman - would you take that seriously too?
  21. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    Like some kind of, dunno, Advisory Council?
  22. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    That's not what I was saying.
  23. JediPriestess Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 4
    Here's a novel idea. How about people just behave themselves and not act like idiots and then no one would have to be banned? Maybe thats too difficult for some people. :rolleyes:
  24. Slowburn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2010
    star 4
    Under any kind of censorship, you will get people who just want to speak their mind. Not everyone is inherently conformist. These boards have a lot going for them but they are big on numbing things that are commonplace on other corners of the web. This would be a very sad world if no one questioned anything, including the current board banning system. It's healthy, if anything. Bans will happen, it's inevitable. \
  25. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    TFN TOS:

    1. Don't insult anyone.

    2. Unless you're in the Senate, in which case it's okay as long as they're actually wrong.


    :p
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