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Rogue One Trust goes both ways: The bond between Jyn and Cassian

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Anthology (Released Films)' started by cerealbox, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. AlexanderTheTrollfighter

    AlexanderTheTrollfighter Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2016
    Indeed I liked that they respected each other. Nice to see Cassian wasn't made weak to empower Jyn unlike what happened in TFA. Especially liked that she wasn't a Mary Sue like Rey nor acted like a man. She was allowed to be strong, vulnerable and feminine.
     
  2. Keycube

    Keycube Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2009
    I appreciated any inferred romance here, much more than I did the actual romance in TESB (principally because it culminated in my personal Han Solo death knell - his jealous whining at the end of ROTJ). And, mind you, I don't like romance in my Star Wars.

    The difference here was the intensity and obvious exhaustion these characters must have felt for hours. You know how that works - that impassioned energy potentially manifests itself in a number of different ways; we've all had moments where we could either bawl like a baby, love with maddening intensity, break glass with reckless abandon...it doesn't matter. Something just has to get out.

    So yeah, they finally bonded in regards to a common life theme, but just in terms of raw human emotion, I would have probably even bought an on-screen kiss...eventually. :)
     
  3. hana_solo

    hana_solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2016
    I'm a total Rebelcaptain shipper so I consider them a great, tragic romance. They found love at the end of their short lives. When they had the moment to pause and reflect on how they feel about each other, there was a tsunami lit in bright light to cut it short. So they hugged to at least live that last moment together. It was 100% earned. I'd like to share some tremendously moving fan art dedicated to Jyn and Cassian regardless of interpretation (romance or not):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Cassian earned Jyn's respect when he put her in her place after Eadu. Instead of sucking up and kissing her butt, Cassian told her he didn't need to explain anything, then walked away.

    Most girls like that trait in men, as it exudes strength.
     
  5. hana_solo

    hana_solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2016
    Blue 5 That's one of my favorite scenes in the movie. Also, I'd argue that they were truly equal in the movie, as he had his own character arc, wasn't just her sidekick or anything.
     
    SateleNovelist11 and Blue 5 like this.
  6. DaffyTheWizard

    DaffyTheWizard Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2017
    If these two would of lived I totally could of seen them ending up together. I liked Jyn's and Cassian friendship in the movie. I was actually surprise that the two didn't end up kissing each other in the elevator scene or at the end when they were on the beach. Not that I mind both scenes were great without a kiss, if anything I preferred that they didn't kiss, but I was still surprise that there wasn't one. But yeah, I did get the vibe that the two did like each other.
     
  7. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    We don't need any odd or sexist swipes at TFA in here. Also, the term "Mary Sue" is not allowed, in the interest of having actual constructive discussions.
     
  8. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Yeah. He was also watching what was happening on the landing pad at Eadu which matched how Bodhi saw Galen.

    I noticed that too. I'm sure this isn't the first time Draven has taken him aside to order an assassination either. I thought Cassian thought it was dirty tricking Jyn like that especially when her hope of finding her father is so clear on her face. He feels terrible even though he's accustomed to the lies, deceptions, betrayals and killing that is a normal part of his job.

    Draven btw is really interesting in this. I don't know if Mon Mothma knew he'd asked Cassian to kill Galen rather than retrieve him. I thought it would be foolish to kill the Death Star's lead engineer who knows everything about the weapon if you can actually capture him, especially when it seems he wants to get information to the Rebellion. Even if it's all some trick on the part of the Empire, there is still more to gain by a capture (if it is possible). Not to mention that the weapon is already completed so what is the point of killing Galen now? Or why not kill all the engineers not just Galen if the concern is that these top minds will move on to designing the next awful superweapon. (This is all made terribly hilarious by the fact that the Empire killed its own engineers, which you know they might have done that anyway because those people now "know too much.") Or why not just destroy the facility at Eadu lol, which Draven later decided to do anyway.

    So really the point is that Draven is rather corrupt and his motives are often poisoned (he's on the dark path). He's probably not the only one like this in the Rebellion as you can't really have an organization like the Rebel Alliance in a galaxy this complicated without it having a little bit of rot in it. Draven of course is a product of this war though, and he is incredibly stressed out (I mean, he recently learned the Empire has a planet killer and that is truly terrifying and he's scrambling to do something about it when it seems it's too late). Draven, though, kind of represents in a way what Cassian really is fighting inside not to become.
     
    CrackedKyberCrystal likes this.
  9. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    The novelization shows that he was having trouble talking himself into carrying out the mission (for example, he saw it as yet another crime he had to commit for "the greater good" that he would't have to answer to [Ch. 11, p. 153]). It also states that he put the rifle down when he saw (through the scope) that Galen and Jyn shared the same eyes (Ch. 11, p. 154). Make of that what you will.

    Yeah, that makes sense. The novelization does expand on the idea that he believes he'll be stabbing Jyn in the back; the chapters covering the "extraction" part of the mission having thinking in several cases that Jyn will probably try to hunt him down after the fact (and he doesn't even seem to think that that's a bad thing).

    He may have thought that (per the novelization), but Jyn didn't want to find her father at all at the beginning: "And when [the mission] was over, she could go back to her old life. Make a new life. Find somewhere away from the Rebel Alliance, away from Saw Gerrera and Galen Erso..." (Rogue One novelization, Ch. 2, p. 43). Also, in the initial briefing and when she first starts hearing the message her father left, the book also establishes that she was automatically thinking variations of: "My father is alive. My father is a coward. My father is a [bleep]. Gales Erso is not my father. Galen Erso didn't raise me..." (Ch. 6, p. 99). The book insinuates that hearing the full message began breaking down the hate she'd been carrying for him most of her life, which lead to the slow process that allowed her be able to identify herself as her father's daughter is pride to Krennic at the end.

    She didn't. The novelization even adds a scene were this comes up after the raid on the think tank.

    Remember, no one knew that the station was complete until after the mission was in progress. They also didn't want the designer to making any other toys for the Empire, as I recall. Also, I seem to recall that no one really believed that Galen had been the source of the leak. Jyn was the only one who had all the info and she wasn't trusted due to her criminal past and being the daughter of the man in question.

    The Rebel Dossier reference book and Catalyst novel confirm that many of the scientists were indeed killed after their work was done.

    I don't know if I saw Draven as corrupt. Willing to make moral compromises, yes, but that is an inevitable part of war.
     
    oncafar likes this.
  10. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    No one "got put in their place". They argued. As equals. And last I checked, "most girls" didn't empower you to speak on their behalf. That'll be enough "guy power" posturing in here, from everybody.
     
  11. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    If he's going behind the back of Mon Mothma or other Alliance leaders (especially after a decision has been made collectively) he seems kind of corrupt to me. I suspect he might think that maybe some of the leadership (peaceful idealists) don't know what must be done and it's his job to make the tough calls that others can't or won't make because they are too good. In some ways he might have a point that some of the idealistic leaders of the Alliance don't really understand the sort of dirty work that must be done (Senators are not Generals). But by being underhanded like this he's probably creating more problems than he's solving.

    Anyway I see this kind of position as "on the dark path" because his actions are driven by fear when he does these things. And the more he fears, the more he must control things to keep the fear at bay. I don't think he is severely corrupt; he's doing it all to protect the things he holds dear. But there is a fine line between "protector" and "enforcer."

    It's not that I think he's on the way to becoming a villain or anything. I don't think he'll slide much more morally than he already has. But he is sitting on the moral downslide.

    PS: I haven't read the novelization and appreciated the info from it.
     
    WebLurker likes this.
  12. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2017

    Lots of girls find it attractive. Fact. Kissing their butt and sucking up lands you in friendzone. It isn't an assault against PC, it's how dynamics in potential romantic relationships function in REALITY.
     
  13. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Some girls that you've encountered find it attractive, according to you. Fact. That is not "most girls", and does not grant you the authority to make generalized statements in their name. Arguing with someone is not "putting them in their place", as if you are somehow their superior, and they should know it. Just as not arguing with someone who may have a valid point would not be "sucking up or kissing their butt". I couldn't care less about "an assault on PC", but your implication that "putting a woman in her place exudes strength, and is attractive" is insulting. You're mistaking showing confidence in oneself, with asserting dominance over someone. Regardless, this will be the end of this line of discussion, or the place that you will be put in is the Unban Request Forum.
     
  14. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    I can see where you're coming from. From the way the novelization handled Mothma's learning about the reality of the situation, I did get the impression that Draven was within his rights to make the call he did (although I don't remember that part specifically and could be incorrect in my recall). Conversely, it could be very well that he was in the wrong (from an authority standpoint) and Mothma overlooked it since the Alliance is in short supply of officers. For what it's worth, in the novelization when presenting the scene were the Alliance must decide what to do about the Death Star, it's mentioned that fact that Cassian was supposed to assassinate Galen Erso is buried, and the cover story is that the extraction went wrong, a coverup Mothma would've had to cooperate with to work.

    Got it.

    Hey, no prob. Glad you liked the tidbits.
     
    oncafar likes this.
  15. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015

    Beautiful artwork. It was tragic. They both had been damaged throughout their lives, and they respected one another for their strength and other commonalities. People like that tend to be drawn to one another and find each other soothing.
     
    mirrorbright likes this.
  16. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
  17. hana_solo

    hana_solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2016
    SateleNovelist11 Beautifully said.

    thejeditraitor Each to its own. For example, I find the Shrine of Friendzone Kiss uproariously LOL but I never go to that thread to point out how laughable I think it is. It's their place of worship so I respect that. But when they bring that nonsense to other threads, than I point out that it's [face_rofl].
     
    SateleNovelist11 likes this.
  18. mirrorbright

    mirrorbright Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2016
    hana_solo Lovely fanart :)

    This is also one of my favorites:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    (credit)

    I am actually okay with the elevator scene as it was in the movie (them not kissing), but this is wonderful and I really love it. [face_love]
     
    Porkins2099 and SateleNovelist11 like this.
  19. hana_solo

    hana_solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2016
    mirrorbright OMG, love it! [face_love] Thank you for posting! Jyn and Cassian break my heart.
     
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  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Indeed. There is an ongoing insinuation here that there is something wrong with the idea of Jyn and Cassian NOT being romantic, as if a friendship is somehow inferior.
     
  21. Obi-John Kenobi

    Obi-John Kenobi Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2012
    I'm kinda of two minds about "shipping" Jyn/Cassian. The first time I saw it it, I was like "Aw, g'wan and kiss. You're about to die and you know it." After my second viewing, I wasn't so sure there wasn't unfinished words between them.

    I mean the conversation between them was basically "You almost killed my father, you monster!/ I don't have to answer to you, spoiled brat!" Would've seemed forced to just spring this big romantic smooch.

    I viewed their last moments as one of forgiveness. Both did "ignoble" things, but came together over a common good. I liked the bittersweetness of it. Had it been another time, another place, things may have turned out different between them.....:_|
     
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  22. Dr_Cthulhu

    Dr_Cthulhu Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    There's a lovely tribute to Jyn Erso in the novelization of the movie by Alexander Freed:

    "It’s become fashionable in some quarters to claim Jyn Erso went to Scarif intending to die a martyr— that she realized she had lost everything and chose her path by its inevitable end. I will dispute this claim until my own dying days.

    I think Jyn fully recognized who she was and sought a way to channel her best and worst impulses, her darkest moments and her brightest, toward a cause worthy of her true incandescence. In a kinder universe, she would have walked away from Scarif.

    I cannot imagine who she would have become, but I think she would have been extraordinary."
    -- Mon Mothma
     
  23. Jmacq1

    Jmacq1 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    Does the novelization say what happened to Draven? Or did he just go on to be one of those "hiding just off screen" folks for the rest of the OT Trilogy? It felt like that character was being set up for...something. A degree of comeuppance? A subplot character arc? A heroic death? It seemed odd that he disappeared from the narrative pretty much entirely after the creation of "Rogue One."

    I find myself wondering if in the alternate takes he shows up on one of the relief U-Wings and dies a semi-heroic death on Scarif.

    As to Jyn and Cassian, I said most of my piece earlier, but one thing I did like about their post-Eadu argument was that neither of them were really "wrong" in that argument.
     
  24. Dr_Cthulhu

    Dr_Cthulhu Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    No, the novel doesn't offer much more of Draven than the movie did, so we will have to wait for a future novel/comic book or Rebels episode to reveal his ultimate fate. I was expecting to see him cashiered for countermanding Mothma's order.

    Regarding Cassian and Jyn's arguement, the novel reveals that Jyn had once been dispatched by Saw Gerrera on a similar morally dubious mission, so she actually understood what Cassian was talking about.
     
  25. datatapes

    datatapes Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2016
    The last thing Draven is reported as doing in the novel is warning Mon Mothma not to go to Scarif, no matter how inspirational she might think she could be there - but it says she knows her limitations and wasn't planning to go anyway. It doesn't say whether he went himself.