Twice the pride, double the fall

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Karwen_Ereth, Nov 3, 2005.

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  1. Karwen_Ereth Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2005
    When Dooku says this in ROTS fight at begining when anakin says 'my powers have doubled since we last met count' Dooku doesn't realise he is talking about himself.
    Dooku expected to beat them easily, so therefore Dooku also had double the pride and got double the fall by the one he had expected to kill. Ironic.
  2. DARTH_MARK-22 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2003
    star 3
    How very true. If you've read the Episode III novelization by Matthew Stover, it goes into great detail about how deeply Obi-Wan and Anakin really have punked Dooku.
  3. Karwen_Ereth Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Yes i read that just after the film came out. In that I feel quite sorry for Dooku, Palpatine says about capturing anakin to use but poor Dooku has no idea that he has to die first and be replaced. Poor man. A pawn in the great plan of Palpatine.
  4. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah, in the ROTS Novel they totally duped Dooku into thinking they were no match for him.

    I guess they wanted to "Spring their own Trap" on Dooku.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
  6. Leias_love_slave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 5
    Irony?

    *goes to consult Alanis Morrisette on the definition of irony*:p
  7. BothofUs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2003
    star 4
    can someone explain how they "duped" Dooku?
  8. Kained-but-Able Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2004
    star 4
    Yes I am also interested in the nature of the duping?
  9. heels1785 Community & Prequel Trilogy Manager

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    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
    OK, I'd be glad to.

    Both Kenobi and Skywalker use different saber fighting styles in their opening exchange, to make themselves look weaker and more strained than they actually are, and also to lead Dooku into thinking that they are not very good fighting 2 on 1.

    Once Obi-Wan and Anakin get separated, Dooku realizes that he's been lured into a false sense of security, and has to struggle to catch up in the fight.

    The only time in the movie that it looked a bit clear was when Dooku really looked like he was struggling when Anakin began pouring it on after Obi-Wan got knocked out.
  10. BothofUs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2003
    star 4
    so why did they do this...Dooku wasn't going to run away, was he?
  11. Kained-but-Able Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2004
    star 4
    Amazing that they had advanced this much over 3 years. Anakin I'd accept, since he was still a kid really in AOTC but Obi-Wan was pretty much in his prime in AOTC and Dooku owned him.

    Personally I think it was just Anakin who was downplaying his strength to lure in Dooku, Obi-Wan got owned again anyway.
  12. Sith_Lightning Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2005
    The only problem I have with it is that if they have indeed improved that much over 3 years, then why does it seem like Dooku is still the same Dooku we saw in Episode II? He uses no new moves throughout the entire sequence which is not saying that he is bad because he obviously is well trained with a lightsaber as he defends himself with 1 lightsaber against both Obi-wan and Anakin quite easily. But it seems to me Dooku has improved virtually none over the course of 3 years.
  13. Leias_love_slave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 5
    Maybe Dooku peaked years ago.
  14. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    Dooku was overconfident and he thought Anakin would be the same lightweight padawan learner that he faced on Geonosis. Too bad he was wrong.
  15. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    Good catch. The comment also refers to him because he was a Count and a Jedi (twice the pride), and he fell from this to being a Sith (double the fall). And it isn't just about the fight either, he was secretly mocking Anakin about the very fact that Anakin would become a Sith.


    [face_laugh]

    Yeah, as Christopher Lee said "You must understand that Dooku is past his prime."
    But perhaps he was really referring to his own fitness :)
  16. quigondenn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 1
    No, I have to disagree here. Dooku was again on his way to an easy victory until he inadvertenly enticed Anakin to tap into his fear and anger. THAT is what caught Dooku off guard, and is why he was ultimately overpowered.
  17. ObiWanCon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2004
    star 4
    Obi-Wan is in his prime in ROTS not AOTC three years of war tend to sharpen your skills and Anakin is owned by Dooku as well it's only when he channels his anger that he wins.
  18. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    NO! DON'T ASK HER! SHE DOESN'T GET IT!
    *End of English teacher rant*

    :D
  19. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    Dooku wasn`t ready for Anakin,and Palpatine definatly was an influence Anakin was considering aresting him.

    Dooku had no idea he was being double crossed,this shows how great Palpatine is as a villian
  20. JohnWesleyDowney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2004
    star 5

    Personally I think it was just Anakin who was downplaying his strength to lure in Dooku, Obi-Wan got owned again anyway.


    I agree, in fact even the way Anakin carries himself is very confident. He has clearly become the superior warrior. And when Dooku makes the idiotic mistake of mentioning to Anakin he's not tapping into his anger, well, it's over. That's the last thing you want to say to someone as competitive and egotistical as Anakin, it's like "hey you got more fuel for the fire, why aren't you using it?" :oops:

    Watch the shot were Anakin catches Dooku's lightsaber. He's the very picture of confidence.
    He knows he's the Chosen One and and he knows his power has doubled. Old Dooku was no match for him.

    More proof of this is seen in the final duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin. For the most part, Anakin was kicking Obi-Wan's rear end. He's incredibly aggressive, strong and keeps kicking Obi-Wan right in the face. It's only at the end when Obi-Wan uses his awareness of Anakin's ego and overconfidence against him, a great psychological advantage, that Anakin loses. Like Dooku said, "twice the pride, double the fall."
  21. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6

    Hah hahh hahhh!!! Leave it to my buddy Heels to impart the knowledge. You are a wise Jedi, my friend. Spot on post.






    Star Wars
  22. JediPrettyBoy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2005
    star 4
    Obi-Wan gets lifted and choked because his concentration on Dooku was lost for just a moment due to having to go through two super battledroids to get to him. Anakin gets kicked easily because of losing his focus as he watches (probably in a little bit of shock) his best friend get picked up off of the ground in a force choke move.

    It only takes a slight moment of distraction in a fight with a more experienced fighter for him to b**** slap your tail; even if you are generally the better fighter.

    Obi and Anakin get beat in that moment for the same reason that Michael Jordan still had problems, on occasion, with more experienced players in the earlier years of his career.
  23. theBluePhoenix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2001
    star 3
    I love how the Anakin/Dooku/Obi-Wan fight was described in the book. We saw Dooku change from a confident and powerful Sith Lord to an exhausted and weak old man barely able to defend himself. I remember one particular part that described Dooku as becoming more and more fatigued while Anakin was getting stronger and stronger. For those of you who have not read the ROTS novel, what are you waiting for? I?m not shy about expressing my disappointment with the movie, but the novel was great!
  24. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

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    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    No, I have to disagree here. Dooku was again on his way to an easy victory until he inadvertenly enticed Anakin to tap into his fear and anger. THAT is what caught Dooku off guard, and is why he was ultimately overpowered.

    Yep, Dooku should have kept his mouth shut. That was one taunt too far.
  25. rbarcia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 2
    I think this is a major flaw in the Sith, they talk too much during battle at the wrong time. Palps did this in ROTJ.

    Luke was all angry on top of his father with an evil look. Palps comes in and starts talking "Your hate has made you powerful, now fulfill your destiny and take your father's place by my side." This gave Luke a moment to think and stop.

    Also, while frying Luke, Palps stops once or twice, tells Luke something "You have payed the price for you lack of vision" "Now young Skywalker, you will die". This gave Vader more time to think as well.
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