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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Two Lines that always really bothered me...

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith' started by _Sublime_Skywalker_, Nov 4, 2005.

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  1. Circle_Is_Complete

    Circle_Is_Complete Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2005
    The irony is that without Anakins turn. His visions never come true. So It wasn't destiny. I know characters mention destiny in SW but I don't think it fits in the SW universe because It is so much based on people and choices they make creating there own destiny. I think the two most tragic characters aren't as much Padme' and Anakin but Padme' and Obi-Wan because they never asked for the pain, I guess no one really does but some set themselves set themselves up more then others for it and Padme' and Obi-Wan were trying to do what was truly right and just and Anakin's selfishness brought pain upon them. His actions inflicted this on them. That is the thing about characters like Obi-Wan and Padme' is that no matter how chaotic things get around them it is their beliefs deep down that keep them grounded. If you see the deleted scene where the Senators go talk to Palpatine it is Padme that confronts him on the things he is doing. So yes I feel she was still for the most part the same women from TPM and AOTC.
     
  2. Get_in_Gear

    Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Hmm.. not necessarily.
    I know there are people who claim to practice "black magic" and people who claim to be "witches" but they would not describe themsleves as "evil" and take themselves quite seriously and legitimately.

    The "Dark Side" is just that forbidden fruit - it's not evil to Ani, it is just shrouded in mystery... it is a pathway to powers some (not all) consider to be... unnatural.
    And that makes it all the more appealing - to paraphrase Cheif Wiggum from the Simpsons: "I just don't understand your fascination with my forbidden closet of mystery."
     
  3. Leias_love_slave

    Leias_love_slave Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2003
    On the subject of Anakin and destiny:

    I remember as a kid, hearing a story about a man who was haunted by nightmares of being eaten by a shark. He came to loathe sharks so much that he went out of his way to kill them. Other the years, he went on many 'fishing' trips, where he killed as many sharks as he possibly could. Then one day, there was a mishap, and he fell into the water and was promptly killed in a shark attack.

    The point of all this was that if he hadn't given in to his fear and hatred of sharks, he would never have been out there at sea where he would come into contact with them. It was a self-fullfilling prophecy.

    So this idea that Anakin causes his fears to become reality is a very interesting one that I think applies in the real world.
     
  4. Circle_Is_Complete

    Circle_Is_Complete Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 20, 2005
    I agree I think dark doesn't HAVE to mean evil but dark as in unseen. Things that just aren't practiced by most who have Force powers. Such as prolonging life.
     
  5. sonofskywalker86

    sonofskywalker86 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2003

    The irony is that without Anakins turn. His visions never come true. So It wasn't destiny. I know characters mention destiny in SW but I don't think it fits in the SW universe because It is so much based on people and choices they make creating there own destiny. I think the two most tragic characters aren't as much Padme' and Anakin but Padme' and Obi-Wan because they never asked for the pain, I guess no one really does but some set themselves set themselves up more then others for it and Padme' and Obi-Wan were trying to do what was truly right and just and Anakin's selfishness brought pain upon them. His actions inflicted this on them. That is the thing about characters like Obi-Wan and Padme' is that no matter how chaotic things get around them it is their beliefs deep down that keep them grounded. If you see the deleted scene where the Senators go talk to Palpatine it is Padme that confronts him on the things he is doing. So yes I feel she was still for the most part the same women from TPM and AOTC.[hr][/blockquote]

    Do you think that's maybe why Yoda was so careful to tell Luke that "always in motion the future is..."? I suspect that in the 20 years between Anakin's fall and Luke's training, Yoda and Obi-Wan were careful to try to figure out what they needed to change in the way they conducted their Jedi training (their curriculum if you will). I really don't think Yoda was just trying to weasle his way out of Luke's question but rather telling Luke that there were many hundreds of possible threads which the future could follow.

    In Anakin's case, he tried to avoid a certain future he had seen without any knowledge of which path led to that horrible future. Ironically the path he chooses to take (to prevent Padme's death) ultimately leads to it.

    sonofskywalker86 [face_cool]
     
  6. Circle_Is_Complete

    Circle_Is_Complete Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 20, 2005
    I definatly agree SOS. Yoda and Qui-Gon both mention to keep your mind on the here and now. I think Yoda learned from the faith they all seemed to have in a prophecy. It took until ROTS before Yoda even brings up the fact that prophecy can be cloudy and they possibly might have misread it.
     
  7. Gobi-1

    Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Remember from the deleted scenes in AotC especially the one in Padme's bedroom. The story point of the scene was those who can't adapt, die. The alien kids couldn't adapt to their new planet and they died.

    In RotS we have the sam siuation. Padme couldn't adapt to the Republic becoming an Empire and to Anakin becoming a Sith. Her life's work was to preserve the Republic. When it died she had nothing to live for including even her children. I like how someone brought up the symbiotic circle between Anakin and Padme. I would suggest that Padme shares another symbiotic circle with the Republic. When the Republic was destoyed so was she.

    "You are going down a path I cannot follow." - Padme.



     
  8. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Actually, it was me wo made the point about the symbitoic relationship, and I agree with you comments about Padme also having a symbiotic relationship with the Republic. :*
     
  9. SmASh0r09

    SmASh0r09 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2005
    I agree with this. I think that Padme was dying FOR her children. Had Padme survived along with her 2 children the Empire would have found out about them and take them away from her. I am pretty sure that if she was alive she would not have allowed Bail and Obi-Wan to hide them away, which of course would had stopped future events.
     
  10. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    She only realized that because she knew that Obi-wan ruined any hope she had of convincing Anakin to stop his madness. Once he showed himself, Obi-wan caused Anakin to assume that Padme wanted him dead by bringing Obi-wan to kill him which led to the Force choke.
     
  11. Obi_Frans

    Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jul 31, 2003
    She was walking away from him before Obi ever showed his face, he threatened her, got angry with her and flat-out rejected her love alltogether - Obi-Wan had nothing to do with her heartbreak

    "I don't want to hear anymore about Obi-Wan!"
    "The Jedi turned against me, don't you turn against me!"
    "Anakin, you're breaking my heart! I don't know you anymore. I'll always love but i can't follow you"
    "Love won't save you Padme"

    He broke her heart before Obi-Wan showed up, that's blatantly obvious.

    - O_F
     
  12. Circle_Is_Complete

    Circle_Is_Complete Jedi Youngling star 3

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    May 20, 2005
    This whole thing about the symbotic relationship might sound lofty and romatisized but it totally removes choice from Padme. People who say her fate was tied to Anakin makes her not only weak but removes the chance for her to make her own choices. It is like saying that Anakin is allowed to make choices that lead him in the path he chooses good or bad and Padme does not. If it was so symbiotic why did Padme's correct choices not bring him out of death as Anakin, also if it were symbiotic Anakin would have had to physically die and she says she still feels good in him as does Luke this is saying that Anakin is still physically alive no matter how "dead" to himself he is. So then Padme wouldn't physically die either if their fates were tied.
     
  13. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Anakin did die, from a certain point of view.

    "He (Vader) betrayed and murdered your father."

    Anakin allowed his very essence, his humanity and compassion to die and all that remained was an empty, evil half human/half machine. Its not a matter of Padme being "weak" But rather she and Anakin have entwined their fates together and as one dies so does the other.
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Uh, his vision did come true. She did die after all. Anakin's fears and selfishness brought about his vision. It was a warning that he will lose everything if he continues down this path. But because he didn't listen, he lost everything.
     
  15. D_Lowe

    D_Lowe Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    How does Sidious know that Padme is dead? I've never quite understood this.

    You don't think that new travels? Especially a well known Senator dies and nobody is going to hear about it?

    Apply this logic to ROTJ. News traveled fast when the Death Star blew up and the Emperor died.
     
  16. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 23, 2000
    But Obi-wan still caused her death to happen by showing himself to Anakin. Just because Anakin got angry with her, made idol threats, and forced Padme to leave him doesn't mean that she's given up on him completely since her last words to Obi-wan were, "There's still good in him". Padme knows that PalpSidious is the reason for Anakin's murderous rampage but if she had brought up to Anakin that Palps was the one trying to kill her for years, then Anakin would've realise that his whole purpose in using the Dark Side was for nothing.
     
  17. Dezdmona

    Dezdmona Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2005
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