PT Two questions about Mace Windu

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Eggrert, Feb 24, 2013.

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  1. Eggrert Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 1
    1. If the prophecy involves the "chosen one" bringing balance to the Force by eradicating the Sith, why is Mace so insistent that the Sith have been extinct for a thousand years (or generations...it's been a while since I saw TPM)?

    2. When Anakin tells Mace about Palps in ROTS, Mace basically says, "Yeah, you might be right, but I still don't trust you." And then he goes to Palps' office to arrest him. I dunno; maybe it's different in the SW universe, but it seems a bit premature to arrest someone (especially the Supreme Chancellor) if you're not entirely sure (and if your source is a kid whom you've distrusted in the past). Mace's attitude towards Palps ("The Senate will decide your fate") is a bit forthright for someone who isn't sure of the Chancellor's guilt. So why'd he choose this course of action?


    Sorry if these questions have been asked before (actually, I'm sure they have), but I wasn't able to find a thread discussing them. If someone could point me to such threads, that'd be great. :)
  2. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    1. "a prophecy that misread could have been"

    anyway

    to me Mace was always a bit dismissive and imprudent

    "too sure of themselves they are even the older, more experianced ones"

    */mace nods*

    "talking about you I was"

    2. because they had suspected the Chancellor themselves earlier in the movie

    - not giving up office

    - "the dark side of the force surrounds the chancellor"
    Last edited by Sistros, Feb 24, 2013
  3. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I think the whole prophesy/chosen one story is a mess and a bad idea for the franchise

    That said, in fairness, in TMP I don't think the Council was convinced that Anakin fulfilled the prophesy at that point. I think it's not really until later in the trilogy that they start believing it.

    I also don't think that they were convinced the Sith were back until Maul and Qui-Gon were killed.

    The events of TMP are part of what convinces them of both Anakin's possible importance, and the return of the Sith
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Feb 24, 2013
  4. Eggrert Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 1
    I agree, even though TPM is (gasp) my second favorite SW movie.

    I guess that's what I'm really getting at here; if the prophecy says that the "chosen one" will destroy the Sith, then how the heck can the Sith be extinct if the "chosen one" hasn't yet been found?
  5. sg1A Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2013
    star 1
    Obi-Wan at the end of AOTC ,says that Dooku said something about a dark lord or sith that has control in the senate. And the response that they gave Kenobi was that Dooku full of lies and mistrust.

    And they said that the force was not as clear as it use to be. that it was clouded by the dark side. So mace and yoda prolly def suspected something was amiss.
  6. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    I guess that's what I'm really getting at here; if the prophecy says that the "chosen one" will destroy the Sith, then how the heck can the Sith be extinct if the "chosen one" hasn't yet been found?

    --

    perhaps he's not a believer in prophecies :p
  7. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    It's best not to think about it too much, Lucas clearly didn't :p
  8. P.Sam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2011
    star 1
    For the first question, I think that Mace Windu, as well as the Jedi Council realize after Maul's death that the Sith are back. The question was now wheter Darth Maul was the master or the apprentice. It becames clearer an clearer in the course of the war that something powerful in the dark side of the Force is still at work. According to the prophecy Anakin is the one who will bring balance to the Force. But how and when and why is up to many interpetations.

    As for the second question, I think it's untrue that Mace does not at all trust Anakin. He knows that Anakin was very close to the chancellor and that Anakin was manipulated and so didn't want him to come. But he believed Anakin's accusation of Palpatine being a Sith. I would not be surprised if Windu sensed that Anakin was very troubled by that. Suddenly it all make sens, Dooku's statement that a Sith runs the show, the engineering war, the full power given to the chancellor ect. Mace is convinced that Palpatine is a Sith. He goes to arrest him as quickly as he could. he did the right thing, it just did not turn out well...
    Last edited by P.Sam, Feb 24, 2013
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  9. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Of course he doesn't trust him, he clearly tells Anakin that if he's right about Palpatine he will have gained his trust. You don't have to gain the trust of someone who trusts you.
  10. P.Sam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2011
    star 1
    He clearly have his doubts concerning Anakin, especially as the later is very close to the Chancellor and receive special treatment from him but my understanding is that he still respect Anakin and don't think of him as a lier. Therefore I think he may not mistrutst him completely but have serious reserve towards him that is pretty clear to me.
    Last edited by P.Sam, Feb 24, 2013
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  11. KilroyMcFadden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 3
    This forum needs a sticky "Questions" thread.
    fett 4 likes this.
  12. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    It was Ki-Adi Mundi who said that. Not Mace.
  13. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    In the end a prophesy is just a prophesy - they don't always come true. Chances are some/most of the Jedi had disregarded that particular one once the Sith had apparently been defeated. The discovery of the 'Chosen One' co-incided with the revelation of the Sith's survival, so the prophesy suddenly became a lot more believable!

    As for Mace not trusting Anakin's word about Palpatine, it seems likely that Mace was more or less convinced that Palps was the Sith Lord (given all the previous suspicions about his motives etc). He didn't trust Anakin to do the right thing though.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  14. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4
    Mace, Yoda and the rest of the Jedi Council had dismissed Qui-Gon's theory that Anakin was the Chosen One in TPM. The entire Jedi Council. After Anakin had displayed a strong connection to the Force during the Battle of Naboo, they agreed to allow him to join the Order. Judging from what I had seen in the movie, only Yoda seemed against the idea. Nor did he liked the idea of Anakin becoming Obi-Wan's new padawan.

    In AOTC, Yoda never said anything about Anakin's future as the Chosen One. On the other hand, it was Obi-Wan who not only expressed doubt at the prophecy surrounding Anakin, he also complained about Anakin's arrogant. Yoda pointed out that a great deal of the Jedi seemed to be suffering from arrogance (not realizing that he was also speaking for himself). As for Mace, he seemed surprised at Obi-Wan's doubts regarding Anakin's role as the Chosen One, and suggested that the younger Jedi Knight learn to have a little more faith.

    Set between AOTC and ROTJ, the Jedi Council learned that a Sith Lord (other than Count Dooku) had close connections to either Palpatine or someone within the latter's inner circle. This is why the entire Jedi Council - save for Obi-Wan - not only harbored distrust toward Anakin, but also dismissed the idea of him being the Chosen One. Anakin's close friendship with Palpatine seemed to be the source of their distrust. However, I suspect that Yoda has never really let go of his distrust of Anakin.
    Last edited by DRush76, Feb 24, 2013
  15. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
    star 3
    Is this from an EU source? I haven't seen anything that says that the Council decided Anakin wasn't the Chosen One because of his closeness to Palpatine, so I was wondering where it comes from.
  16. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I think you hit the nail right on the head there. It does seem that way with Mace — at least in ROTS it does.

    That is what I think is one of the problems with the Jedi Order at this time. Yoda even states that some Jedi are not what they should be. Half the Jedi are not what you would call fully in touch with the Force (taking their natural given talents for granted) and probably dismiss the Propecy as something some fool had concocted long ago.
  17. sg1A Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2013
    star 1
    Or often prophecy's missread they are. Just saying?
  18. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    What ever the case, the point about the Sith's involvement in the Prophecy is unknown to some masters, which clearly states one of two things: either they don't know much about it, or in their arrogance don't believe in it and dismiss it as some fool's dream.
  19. sg1A Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2013
    star 1
    Even the Jedi can be arrogant sometimes, which was already mentioned with yoda saying to sure of themselves jedi are. not an exact quote of yoda. I also personally feel that the council didn't handle Anakin that well and Obi-Wan did a good job. I personally feel that Anakin could have been treated better then he was. Now ill get off my soapbox.
  20. Darkskar95 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 1
    How can one bring balance to the force if Anakin is supposed to destroy the Sith? That would only be destroying one side. In order to ''bring balance'' one must destroy the Jedi(light) and Sith(dark).
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  21. Darkskar95 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 1
    [IMG]

    Oh and he's dead now.
    TheDarkSyde likes this.
  22. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    This was established in the pre-ROTS novel, "Labyrinth of Evil". I guess you can dismiss it as a "EU source" if you want. But the novel did establish the Jedi Council's distrust of Palpatine and anyone close to him, along with the Chancellor's kidnapping. And both topics were continued in ROTS.
  23. Lord Chazza Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    I think the discrepancy between the prophecy and what Mace said has something to do with the difference between destroying the Sith Order permanently and merely destroying the dark side users. I think when Mace said that the Sith had been extinct for 1000 generations what he meant was that they hadn't come across any members of the Order of the Sith Lords for 1000 generations so the Sith are kind of like a dormant volcano; they're gone for now but they could come back. The problem with this theory of course is just how does one destroy Sith? I mean any force sensitive person could find some Sith teachings and convert but oh well. I can't really see any other way of reading into what Mace says. As to your other point, well, Mace is just a badass and Anakin is a whiny git. I would talk down to Anakin as well.
    Last edited by Lord Chazza, Feb 27, 2013
  24. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I was just about to say that.:p
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Balance of the Force, not balance of the Force-users. Force-users are not the Force. The sides of the Force are not groups of people.
    Teaviex Cue likes this.
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