Two totally different takes on Hayden

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by _dArTh_SoLo, Oct 17, 2002.

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  1. hoth-nudist Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2000
    star 3
    I have mixed feelings towards haydens performance. And I feel its GL's fault. If there was better dialogue for the him in this movie, hayden could have done better. The talent is there but GL needs to come up with better drama/romance dialogue to compliment the performances. Hayden and anakin clashing was pretty good. I also liked haydens facial expression after padme states: "please dont look at me that way... it makes me uncomfortable." I think hayden needs to work on saber dueling a bit more.
  2. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    naw ibo:

    Anakin is training to be a Jedi knight, he shouldn't be "escaping" it with fantasies of Padme.

    Maybe not--but I don't think he can help it. You and I have two different POVs on his training--you look at what he "should do," I look at how he's feeling this whole time. He feels rejected because of the initial reaction of the Council to Qui-Gon's request that he be trained, and probably because of Obi-Wan's lack of praise (basing this on The Approaching Storm, in which it says that praise from Obi-Wan as as rare as snow on Tatooine); he misses his mother terribly, which if he didn't, something would be wrong with him--he was taken from her when he was nine, and before then, she was his only real companion; and Padme is the only other person, besides Qui-Gon, whom he feels has accepted him. What he should do doesn't have much bearing here when he has these feelings which aren't being dealt with. He can't expect to deal with them alone, when no one is teaching him how, or even trying to understand.

    Darth Solo: I also identify with Anakin, more than any other character in Star Wars--hence my screen name. And in spite of the cheesy dialogue, I liked the fireplace scene. :)
  3. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    When I first saw the fireplace scene, I felt very embarrassed while watching it, and it was on the second occasion I saw the film that I asked myself why. I think it's because it feels like a very private moment between the two characters, that we're witnessing something very intimate, which differs greatly from the usual epic tone of most scenes in the Saga so far. It's almost as if we're intruding on their privacy, so, I suppose, it's the first time in the Saga that we, the audience, takes on a voyeuristic role, so maybe that's why so many people disliked the scene. I have to say I rather like it, as it's lit very nicely, but what almost ruins it for me is Natalie Portman. She also very nearly ruins the confession scene, but thanks to Hayden's acting, he manages to rescue it from going straight down the toilet. I know that's going entirely off the subject, but I thought I'd post it anyway!
  4. AUNTIE_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    Hayden is no doubt a very promising character actor and he was amazing in EpII - portrayed Anakin very well despite of clumsy script. I think he could have even expressed Anakin's character deeper way but GL decided some other way. He can reach whatever he wants but he is still on the way and definitely not a perfect actor yet. In fact when I saw the film for the first time I thought only that he is a very pretty boy but after some viewings I realised the fine work he had made.

    Later I have seen some parts of Higher Ground and sorry to say, he is not very convincing. Maybe because the whole serie is so poor. I am waiting eagerly his newest "Shattered Glass" which will show him as an adult man and something else than a teenager in angst. Also I hope that GL will allow him to do more personal work in EpIII.
  5. Arriss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 4
    He feels rejected because of the initial reaction of the Council to Qui-Gon's request that he be trained, and probably because of Obi-Wan's lack of praise (basing this on The Approaching Storm, in which it says that praise from Obi-Wan as as rare as snow on Tatooine); he misses his mother terribly,

    How very true Anakin Girl I can't help but wonder how many people on this board actually have children & realize the bond between a mother & her child(ren). Yes, I know this on a personal level. If I had been in Shmi's situation (a slave) I too would have sent Anakin away when he had this golden opportunity before him. It's what mother's do for their children - help their lives become more enriched. Would it have torn me apart - of course! But I would rather have my son doing what was meant to and dreamed of all his life.

    Aside from that - judging by what we have seen in the film (as well as the book) Anakin hadn't yet learned to control his anger or emotions. The Council is as Yoda states "Arrogant" even though he was referring to individuals & not the council. You can't take a kid, a slave for that matter, and expect him to forget his entire life and start new - no past to recall. I'm sorry that's just insane!

    Therefore, when we see Anakin again for the first time he still has issues that haven't been fully addressed. I blame not only Anakin for this but Obi-Wan and the council as well for not teaching him but then again, they aren't used to dealing w/someone who hasn't got a clue on how to forgo his emotions.
  6. Jedilisa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    Auntie_Jedi:"Later I have seen some parts of Higher Ground and sorry to say, he is not very convincing. Maybe because the whole serie is so poor."

    If I may. I have watched Higher Ground and I have to say he is very convincing. He is supposed to act the way he's character is.The character he is portraying is a sexually molested teenager with a drug habit,doesn't see his mother very much after his parent's divorce,he lives with his dad,who is angry and can't control his emotions,sometimes.Example:Seductions,Close Encounters,Exposed...etc...I am very convinced by his performance.IMO, The series was written quite well,It felt real to me.I don't know how many episodes you watched,But, I ask if you could give it another try and then examine it again.I am also looking forward to his new movie "Shattered Glass", I am sure he is going to give a great performance.
  7. padme2852 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    Wow! I'm gone a couple of days and the pages doubled. I've scanned the messages to catch up. I have some questions I'll post later. But first, I couldn't resist responding to the post below.

    TokyoExtreme posted: "This thread is hilarious. What are you all going to say in Episode III, when young Darth Vader (before the mask), violently force slaps Padme across the face, then comes in an hour later with a bouquet of flowers? Well, I guess you'll all have to say you were wrong, huh?

    Sweet justice."

    Extreme: (me talking). Are you clairvoyant or something? Do you have a private line to George Lucas? Are you saying that you **know** for a fact that your prediction will come true?

    And when I'm wrong, I admit it. So let's wait for the 2005 release of Ep.III., before you start celebrating.
  8. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    naw ibo, thinking of his mother DID bring Anakin pain, that was established in TPM. Thinking of Padme was a way to escape; she was his CLOSEST friend, and they both cared alot about eachother. He can't help it; his mother was the only one there for him his entire life, he never had a father.

    When I moved, there was a girl that I cared for deeply. At times, when I was still adjusting (which took a long time), I thought about her a lot, as an escape from the current hell I was in (moved in the beggining of my freshman year in a school with 3000+). How much I cared for her and how much I missed her, it was natural because I never really kept in contact with her (which is what I must admit a horrible mistake).

    Maybe if the Jedi allowed Anakin to express his feelings, not kind of push them away, this would have never had happened. If he were in touch with his feelings, and had someone who he could have talked to during his training, to adjust correctly to the ways of the Jedi, maybe there wouldn't have been a Darth Vader.

    But in order to fulfill the prophecy, Anakin went to Hell (when he turned into Vader), and came back again. It's all very important and things turned out the way they were supposed to.

    nuff said
  9. I_am_Darth_NINE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2002
    hmm jake lloyd was alright, he wasn't as believable and sometimes his lines were very fake sounding, but i can also understand he's only ike 10 or something, so you can't expect him to be awesome, but he did the part decently
    hayden on the other hand is awesome...sigh...he's great, i thought he played his role very well. he played the hopeless romantic side that pines for padme in an awesome way, and then he turned it around and played off having a hint of the dark side show through him everynow and then...i thought he did an awesome job, i wouldn't have chosen any other young actor, because he fits the part perfectly in my opinion
  10. Jedilisa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    Extreme: (me talking). Are you clairvoyant or something? Do you have a private line to George Lucas? Are you saying that you **know** for a fact that your prediction will come true?

    LOL!!I agree with you Padme2852,Answer the question Extreme.
  11. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    can't wait till the DVD comes out!
  12. Palo_Bianco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 1
    up!

    This thread is too ridiculous to let it dissappear.
  13. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "I named this thread the way I did to show how ridiculous the contrary opinion is

    so lets just praise him here"




    LOL LOL LOL
  14. Palo_Bianco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 1
    "If all films are created equal, and everything comes down to opinion, then no film can ever be better than your least favorite. AOTC is no better than the SW Holiday Special. ANH is no better than Leprechaun in Space. Any filmmaker who cares about putting any effort into their work is wasting his or her time, since they can just ship it right away and it'll still be just as good as everything else anyone has ever done. In fact, the whole craft of filmmaking is a joke, since nothing we do will ever top Scary Movie 2 or Pluto Nash.

    Forget all that. All films are not created equal. Actors, directors, writers, cinematographers, editors and members of every other profession in the business vary widely in talent, dedication, experience and luck. The right crew at the right time can pool their skills to create the Wizard of Oz or The General--but for every masterpiece and crew behind it, there are a hundred indifferent hacks cranking out straight-to-video knockoffs; check your local Blockbuster for endless examples of what I'm talking about. Cookie-cutter slashers like Ax 'Em and Final Stab, lobotomized, cut-rate shoot-em-ups like The Last Siege and The Tunnel, and more identical sex thrillers than anyone could ever name.

    Palo, are you arguing that AOTC is just as good as any of these? Personally, I think that "eye of the beholder" goes only so far."



    Exactly.
  15. Palo_Bianco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 1
    "I'm gonna be super honest here; I have so much in common with Anakin it's not even funny--personality wise. It's amazing, and that is why I love SW so much. I can identify with it more than anything else, it's really cool."

    But Anakin is the villan, so perhap this is not such a good thing, SW being the brilliant personality study that it is, perhaps it would be wise to look at what happened to anakin long term, not to mention he slaughtered a village, and consider a change of pace, to make yourself more like say Luke, or R2 or Wedge.

    Just a thought :)
  16. aguywithabiggun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 1999
    star 4
    I'll just say that I watched ANH last night for the first time in a long while. I was seriously trying imagine Anakin under that mask. No way man. No way in hell.

    The Prequel Anakin, while you can say whatever about how old he is, ruins the idea of Vader. Ruins it. Well, thats strong to say it that way, but its hard to give Vader any credit at all in the OT after knowing this Anakin. I in no way buy at all, that they are even the same person! [face_laugh]

    Vaders just a spoiled punk kid-turned-adult who, after not getting his way, turned all 'evil' in what amounts to nothing more than a temper tantrum. :)

    $0.02
  17. JohnWilliams00 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2002
    star 4
    The portrayal of Anakin Skywalker was hardly what I had imagined it when I looked at Darth Vader. I imagined a strong-minded, confident, and even charismatic individual.

    What we got instead was a cliched "boy-has-teen-angst-and-complains" character. There is no "complexity" to that. It's simply "I've been burned, now I'm mad."

    What would've made Darth Vader's turn more chilling and ironic is if he kept his turmoil underneath the surface, flashing it only once in a while. That way, I would've believed that Anakin would grow up to be a powerful man who is in control of things. But little does he realize the angst he kept within was eating away his humanity.

  18. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "I was seriously trying imagine Anakin under that mask. No way man. No way in hell."

    I know the feeling. The same goes for Temurra morrison under the fett and stormtrooper mask.
  19. Miles Lodson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 1998
    star 3
    "What would've made Darth Vader's turn more chilling and ironic is if he kept his turmoil underneath the surface, flashing it only once in a while. That way, I would've believed that Anakin would grow up to be a powerful man who is in control of things. But little does he realize the angst he kept within was eating away his humanity. "

    I like George Lucas' version better.

    In any case, I think the confession scene is more a testament to GL than anyone else. Hayden nails it, but you have to give credit to GL for getting exactly what was needed.
  20. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    Anakins hould of been basically a clone of Luke (figuratively not literally) this is the entire point of the OT, they are essientially the same person on the same path. Starwars is about Lukes search for his father and an attempt to identify witht he man he never knew, first a mystery, then an idolozied hero, then villafied and finally redeemd when Luke relalizes he is niether a god nor a demon, just a man like himself.


    This is an age old sotry that nearlya nyone could identify with.

    But Anakin does not mirror Luke at all, nor do I think there is anything about him which is natural or applicable to the real world.
  21. Obi-Can Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    jonwilliams,

    The portrayal of Anakin Skywalker was hardly what I had imagined it when I looked at Darth Vader. I imagined a strong-minded, confident, and even charismatic individual.

    What we got instead was a cliched "boy-has-teen-angst-and-complains" character. There is no "complexity" to that. It's simply "I've been burned, now I'm mad."


    Boy, you've put into words what I felt was missing from Hayden's portrayal of Anakin, as well as the Prequels thus far. Characterization is weak. In the case of Anakin, I don't feel that Anakin is Darth Vader or ever could be. The hints or glimpses are contrived at best. He seems to be a light weight in intellect and power. Darth Vader was bigger than life, a force to be reckoned with. Thus far Anakin seems to be a weak self-important want-to-be. Now, I don't believe this should be put on the shoulders of Hayden alone, his performance had its moments. The love scenes were the worst, he seemed very uncomfortable and out of his depth. He didn't have the experience or presence to over-come corny lines. Though the scenes on Tatooine IMO were very strong.

    Getting back to the characterization issues; George seems to be over-compensating in order to make Anakin a sympathetic character and it's back firing on him. IMO Little Anakin was overly cute in PM(exagerated characature of a precocious child), Teenage Anakin is an overly angsty hormonal teenager in AOTC (again a characature of a rebellious teenager). George says he's trying to make his characters deep, but thus far Anakin seems to be a cartoon character built on stereotypes. Darth Vader in my imaginings would never have been a typical teenager, he would have been deep, brooding and mysterious, hiding his resentment and anger from those around him. We the audience would be the only ones given hints to his real feelings and rising turmoil. We should be wanting to warn Padme and Obi-Wan about the dangerous man they have in their midst. Instead I sit back and scratch my head and wonder what the heck was Padme thinking marrying a mass murderer and what was Obi-Wan thinking letting Anakin escort Padme home after his outburst on the transport about going back and saving Padme.
  22. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    You can play Anakin one of two ways, either make him the anti vader so his transformation is very dramatic and extreme, make him a good guy, noble and kind.

    Or basically make him vader without the suit, all the same mannerisims and what not.

    The problem is there is no development with Anakin, in TPM he is a perfect kid, then in ep2 he is like a completley different character, and 99% evil. GL took the character from 0 to 60 with no real inbetween, and it doesn't help that he switched actors mid trlogy which is the worst mistake of the PT. We have Anakin slaughtering a village and then 2 minutes later its like it never happened and if anything he seems like a nicer guy afterwards. Plus I hate all the Anakin sympathezing thats come out of this, I hate hearing people justify the tusken slaughter and Anakins stalkerish tendecies, its sickning, and it only proves how mispronounced the whole message of these films is if the hardcore fans are the ones having the hardest time grasping that killing people is wrong. It always blows me away that the supposed true fans are the ones with the most ridiculous halfcocked interpretations of things that are completely straight forward.

    Anyways, like I said we get no inbetween wtih Anakin, he goes from perfect Jake LLyod to evil Hayden in the blink of an eye, what was Ob1 doing to him between the movies? Physically abusing him? Subjecting himt o mind games? What turned Anakin bad because I feel like we missed it already.
  23. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Totally agree. He was great!! Confession scene was awesome.
  24. Obi-WanLeroy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 1
    The first time I saw Clones in the theater, I wasn't too sold on Hayden's performance. It wasn't until one of my best friends saw it for the 2nd time opening weekend and told me how much he loved his performance.

    So when I saw it the 2nd time I was hooked. I really felt for him during the Tusken raid scene, and his confession scene.

    My favorite scenes with him non-fighting are the confession scene, the scene were he and Obi-Wan are in debate about politicians, and were they're chasing Dooku and have the arguement about what would Padme do if she was in the same situation.

    My big probelm with everyone bashing his performance is. Everyone feels they know what the character of Anakin was supposed to be like as a teenager when they had no idea. Up to that point we knew of him only as a kid, we knew of what Darh Vader is like but not the man inside leading up to the monster.
  25. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    the gunship arguement is great, I wish the rest of the film could be as alive as that moment, for me its the only time I feel like Ob1 and Anakin ever equal the classic duo of Han and Luke.
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