Two totally different takes on Hayden

Hayden is a phenonemal actor.

Anyone who cannot see that is just BRAINDEAD, literally.

The dude can seriously act and if I could post pictures of my bootleg, during the confession scene AND his mothers death, OMG you'd be shocked at how awesome he is (like you already aren't )

dude you bashers never ever give ACTUAL reasons for your opinions, you just DANCE AROUND THE QUESTION just like Punisher is doing right now with his "I don't make star wars so I can't comment" BS.

I am so sick of ignorant and stupid people, sorry if that makes me arrogant or whatever, but so be it! I am sick of it!!!

 

I'm not saying everyone has to like Star Wars. I'm just saying that if you can't find anything good about Star Wars, then you don't like it.

And if you don't like it, then why are you on these boards?

Again, don't hurt me, don't take it too literally.

EDIT: I totally agree with you dArTh_SoLo! I can't stand people who come in here with the intent to bash Hayden. Go find a Hayden basher thread, and take it there. If you don't like Hayden, don't post in here. This is an appreciation thread.


~*^SARA^*~

 

where did the bashers go???

I guess they really can't back up their so called "opinions".

 

Okay, Anidanami124 sent me a PM. So I'll give the answer I was going to give to him, to those of you following this "drama".

I will explain what I had issues with... read what I say.. I'll even give *Warnings* to those that are overly sensitive.

It has been a while since I have seen AOTC. I saw it opening night, I saw it 3 days later and I saw it the next day in DIGITAL.. I haven't seen AOTC since then. (I don't have bootleg versions, nor do I want one.)

Honestly, I didn't have as much of a problem with Hayden as I did with Natalie Portman...
BUT...

*Negative comment*

I said in a ealier post that I didn't agree with the choice that the Anakin Skywalker actors needed to speak in a monotone voice, acting is more than line delivery, I said earlier what my reason's for that was...

I disagree with Hayden's (and Jake Lloyd's) monotone delivery in some scenes, why?

Vader is the dispassionate entity, Anakin was a human being, he had feelings, it's these feelings that ultimately destroy him.

Vader was also behind a mask and his voice was manipulated by the electronics.. true, James Earl Jones did add emphasis and provide some emotion in certain scenes, but in order to show a greater "change" in Anakin & Vader, I would think it would be better to provide more "natural" deliveries, and to provide the hint of Vader in body language...

After all actions speak louder than words.. I would see the transition to Vader by Anakin clasping hands behind his back or resting his hands on his belt.

As always, that's my opinion.

*Positive comment*

The confession scene "I killed them all" is a great scene, it worked well in the trailer and even after that was run into the ground by fans, it worked well in the film.
Very good, what more can I add.

*Negative comment*

I don't get chills from the actual slaughter scene... he looks at the camera with a peeved off look, SO.. I saw that in the first Terminator 2 : Judgment Day trailer.
(Arnie flexs his mucsle, pan up, mad Arnie with a glowing eyes.)
That isn't enough for me. The "I'm gonna get revenge look" is a staple of 80s action films, I understand the place in the story... but it, at least for me, isn't spine tingling. The same thing applies to his angry face when he brings Shmi's biody back, maybe if they had let him get "puffy, cried" eyes, I would have felt more with the look of anger.

*Positive comment*

The meadow scene is the best one between Anakin/Padme in the film. That scene does come off as too young people talking and hinting at feelings.
There is a definite change between that scene and the "first kiss" scene, so much so that I wished that the "first kiss" deliveries were much more playful, like in the meadow scene.

*Negative comment*

I don't like the "fireplace confession", if it was me, I would have liked a little more anger there... Padme rebuffs him.. he's acting like a stalker, he should have a tinge of anger, even as he relents to her wishes.
The "love anger" in contrast to the "hate anger" in the Lars' Garage.
Sorry, but I never liked the fireplace confession scene, I would need to watch it again (GULP!) in order to critique the performance... it seems "put on", for lack of a better word... he's saying things, but he doesn't mean them, IF that was the intent (I think so), he did great! (If NOT) he should have tried harder so it WOULDN'T seem that way.


---------------------------------------------

I have my view on Anakin Skywalker and I will say that it wasn't the same "vision" as George Lucas.
I can't fault Hayden for the dialogue or his choice of material.
I have explained that in earlier posts...

I would need to review the DVD for more when it comes out, but by then this will be a dead thread... and really who will care?!

Needless to say, most of the problems I have is due to dialogue and writing... but I have tried to illustrate my opinions using many scenes that people tend to complement/bash Hayden over, eve

 

Why hasn't this thread been renamed "The ONE & ONLY TAKE on Hayden?"
The comments posted here seem to support that is what most of you want!


Because I named it that to point out how utterly ridiculous the contrary opinion was.

 

Punisher,

Good post!

Now, here is my opinion. The statements below are solely the opinion of this poster, they are not the opinion of anyone else at TFn.

I saw Hayden in LAAH and I think he is an excellent actor! I think he has tremendous potential. I just hope that his career is not damaged by SW like Carrie Fisher's or Mark Hamill's.

His acting in AoTC, now that I have seen LAAH, which several people on the Love Story thread urged me to do, is what Anakin is supposed to be. A stalker. A what Punisher said, for the most part.

EDIT: An obsessive lover, who is obsessed with the object of his desires.

Lady Sami

P. S. The opinion given above is solely the opinion of this poster.

 

ok you kind of danced around most of the stuff but whatever

I'm so sick of defending hayden AND george it's not even funny...I think George has done an AWESOME job with the Prequels so far, even TPM wasn't that bad. Sure, it had some bad parts, but it also had it's bright points as well.

GL's vision is all that matters, he is the divine answer to everything in SW. I hope future generations appreciate these first three movies more than the present does.

Oh yeah, these movies aren't necessarily "prequels", they are the beggining of the story. Your focus determines your reality...

EDIT: Anakin is supposed to come off kind of stalkerish, he's possesive over everything. He needs to stay in controle of the situation; it's all key to his downfall.

 

I'm not talking about you, Solo. I understand the title and the concept of the thread, but I thnk some posters thought that my made up one was more apt, based on their comments.

By the way, this "Basher" gave reasons for his opinion.. so I guess I can go out of the stupid pile, huh?

If not, I don't care what you think of me...
as I said, read the signature.

If that isn't enough for you, I don't care... I did what I was asked for... I didn't have to share it, but I felt I needed to bring my feelings into this discussion.

You may not like my opinions, comments, sarcasm, or the way I type, but you should respect my right to give them.
I never said "Hayden sux" or that anyone that liked or disliked his work was stupid or ignorant..

There is another one for you to use.

I danced around... okay. [face-plain]

I answered much of what was directed at me, I only wanted to say at the beginning, that JenX said her part, and she made comments that people took offense to, she said Hayden's work was "patchy"...
The biggest out of line comment was about the critics... but from what I have seen posted on the JC, she is right.. you have a selective POV when it comes to critical comments.

Most of the other stuff is the same B/G garbage... I don't care about discussing the same things concerning THAT over & over.

 

I hope my comments make sense because it's 2:38am California time. I just read this whole thread. There so many comments I'd like to make.

JenX/Punisher: I don't argue against your right to think poorly of Hayden Christensen and/or George Lucas, and to disagree with most posters in this thread. It's not what opinions you have which are objectionable (at least to me), it's *how* you express your opinions -- with sarcasm, antagonism, and hostility. I can infer from your postings that you think your opinion is superior to other posters. Sarcasm, antagonism, and hostility don't make for *civil* discussions.

Anybody can say anything about Hayden's acting that they want to, even if they've never seen him perform. It's your right. But I'll give more weight to people's criticisms of Hayden's acting if they have seen at least one other major work of his -- Life As A House, Higher Ground, This Is Our Youth, etc. Until then, we'll just simply disagree.

As AnakinGirl pointed out, heavy hitters in his craft of acting have poured praise on Hayden for his work and maturity, including James Earl Jones and Ewan McGregor. For his performance in LAAH, Hayden *WON* the National Board of Review's Breakthrough Performance award, and was nominated for both the Golden Globes (often considered the predictor of Oscars), and most importantly ***BY HIS PEERS*** in the Screen Actors Guild. Hayden had zero chanc of winning the Golden Globe for best supporting actor because: 1) he was new on the scene and it was only his first nomination, and 2) the caliber of fellow nominees Jim Broadbent (who won the award for Iris), Ben Kingsley,and and a couple more heavyweights. That's good company in which to be.

The part of AOTC which I considered Oscar-worthy for Hayden was from the time he discovered Shmi through to the confession scene. I got chills down my spine, thinking "this is it, his first turn to the Dark Side, I'm seeing the start of the transformation from Anakin to Darth Vader." I had that feeling of dread and anticipation. I was also *amazed* at Hayden's performance, and I was thinking "I'm seeing a star, a supernova, being born." But Oscars are awarded for entire movies, not just parts of it (oftentimes they're awarded for a body of work -- the Oscar Denzel Washington won was for more than Training Day). Sir Alec Guiness, one the best actors ever. But he didn't give an Oscar-worthy performance in SW, because his role wasn't substantial enough. I think he should have gotten Oscars for Lawrence of Arabia, Bridge on the River Kwai, Man in the White Suit and other films -- and I think he did win at least one Oscar.

James Franco and Hayden are both wonderful actors, and take the same approach to their craft. I haven't seen Franco's work so I can't really make a comparison. It's not like there can only be one great actor at a time. Besides James and Hayden, for example, there are Jake Gylenhall, Tobey McGuire, Leonard Di Caprio. There are Al, Pacino, Robert Di Niro, Tom Hanks, Denzel Washington; James Stewart, Henry Fonda, Fred Astaire,Robert Taylor, Gregory Peck, Spencer Tracy, Humphrey Bogart, etc.; Laurence Olivier, John Gielgud, Alec Guiness; Peter O'Toole, Richard Burton -- anyway, you get my drift.

DIALOGUE: All StarWars are patterned after the old serials. They spoke in declarations, comic speak, and not in regular conversation. The OT was zippy because the boy was going on a journey to become a man, the Empire had to be defeated, etc. Han and Leia's relationship was set from the start and patterned after old 1930s and 1940s screwball comedies. She was the feisty heroine, he was the charming rogue and scalawag. They were always trading barbs and fighting, and because of that we knew they were going to get together in the end.

The PT is entirely different. This is a journey into the heart of darkness. Fear, Angst, Anger and Hate are the prevailing themes. We know that Anakin and Padme have a doomed relationship -- just like Romeo and Juliet, another pair of star-crossed lovers. Very few

 

anakin_girl

She [JenX] said Hayden couldn't act. She also did so in a very sarcastic and degrading way.

NO. I. DID. NOT. Here are the comments that I made about Hayden:

"I thought that Hayden acting was patchy, at best, and he wasn't helped by the terrible dialogue he was given, but if his high schoool teachers reckon he is "the next James Dean" then who am I to disagree?"

And I posted three laughing faces to show that this was intended as a light hearted joke.


and:

" I think the majority of the dialogue Hayden was given was pretty bad, and being saddled with bad dialogue didn't do him any favours. I don't think Hayden is a great actor, and I don't think he did a particularly good job in AOTC. You disagree. Good for you!"

In which I clear state that I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with me.

I DID NOT say that Hayden couldn't act.


Again, she said he couldn't act--she essentially said he sucked.

NO. I. DID. NOT. I'm sorry, but I'm offended that you seek to criticise me for words that you put in my mouth. I would never say that Hayden's acting "sucked" because I find such language to be childish and counter-productive to polite discussion.

And I once again take issue with the idea that some one who tells others to "bite" them if they don't agree with them is in any position to lecture me on childish posts.

Seriously, though, Jen X, and you, have jumped into a thread full of people who want to praise Hayden's talent. You bash him and then whine when the rest of the people in the thread jump on you.

I have not "whined" at any point in this discussion. I did not "jump" into this thread. I read one and a half pages of comments, made my comment, and then watched with increasing surprise as a number of people decided they would rather talk about my posts then Hayden's acting. This thread is titled "Two totally different takes on Hayden" therefore I don't think that I am out of line by giving an opinion different to the majority of people on this thread.


Padme2825

JenX/Punisher: I don't argue against your right to think poorly of Hayden Christensen and/or George Lucas, and to disagree with most posters in this thread. It's not what opinions you have which are objectionable (at least to me), it's *how* you express your opinions -- with sarcasm, antagonism, and hostility. I can infer from your postings that you think your opinion is superior to other posters. Sarcasm, antagonism, and hostility don't make for *civil* discussions.

I agree that sarcasm, antagonism and hostility don't help matters, which is why I object to the number of hostile, sarcastic and antagonistic posts being directed at me.

Furthermore I object to the totally inaccurate "inferences" that other posters are getting from my posts. I DO NOT believe that my opinion is in any way superior to anyone elses. I made this point in my second post on this thread.


Let me restate my position clearly, in the hope that I don't come back to this thread to read another 3 pages of posters giving their opinions on inaccurate readings of my beliefs:

I don't believe that Hayden is a great actor, and I certainly don't believe that he is "the next James Dean". HOWEVER I also believe that views on an actors ability are entirely subjective, thus I DO NOT believe that those how think Hayden is a good/brilliant actor are wrong. If you think Hayden gave a great performance in AOTC then good for you.

From the interviews I have seen Hayden appears to be a very nice guy, and I do not think poorly of him, and I most certainly DO NOT think poorly of George Lucas, who I believe to be a great writer and director, and a pretty good human being.

 

He has a point about Keanu Reeves though. That guy is "wood" personified.

 

Ok ever one can we stop bashing each other. Punisher gave his opinion in a very good way.
He did a ever good job.

That is really all I'm asking to see. I want to what you liked about the the moive what you did not like.

Because really you don't hate AOTC because there are things in the moive that you like. other things you did not like.

But at least give us more info as to why do don't like it.

It is like giving a speech. I would not stand up in front of people and just say. "I don't like war."

"Then they ask why don't you like war."

"I just don't like it."

You have to give us more to go by. We want to really be able talk about the things we liked or did not like.

But we can't when a lot of you just give one words answers.

Punisher told me what he like what he did not. Do I agree with ever thing he siad no. But do I respect him for coming right out and telling me yes. He liked the meadow scene. So did I.

He did not like the fireplace scene. I did.

In the end we just sae it in a different way.
I liek to hear what people like or did not like. But when it is one word answers. It makes it hard to know where you stand in liking the moive. For all I know you hate AOTC all together.

 

When youa re not punishing you write very good posts punisher

 

Whoa. I log off and go to bed last night and the **** hits the fan. It's good to know that I'm not the only one causing a war here.

padme2852: Thank you so much for coming in here, and bringing up some points that I had forgotten, including Hayden's SAG Award and his National Board of Review award. Let's also not forget the award he got in Cannes.

And, JenX, I somehow don't think that was for "patchy" acting.

It's not what opinions you have which are objectionable (at least to me), it's *how* you express your opinions -- with sarcasm, antagonism, and hostility. I can infer from your postings that you think your opinion is superior to other posters. Sarcasm, antagonism, and hostility don't make for *civil* discussions.

What she said. And BTW, JenX, I'll get to your post in a minute, but I'll throw this out right now--do not yell at me. I already have a mod watching this thread.

But I'll give more weight to people's criticisms of Hayden's acting if they have seen at least one other major work of his -- Life As A House, Higher Ground, This Is Our Youth, etc.

Exactly what I was trying to say. The only one of these I haven't seen is TIOY, and only because I couldn't afford a plane ticket to London. I own the LAAH DVD and all 22 episodes of HG, and I have seen all of them numerous times. I may not be a professional in the movie-making field, but at least I have seen plenty of Hayden's work to back up my opinions, as well as having my opinions backed up by those who are in the field who have either praised his work or nominated him for awards.

Punisher: In your current post, except for the insults you flung in my direction, you did what I asked you to do--you posted your opinions with evidence. And, surprisingly, I agree with a lot of it. I never said AOTC was Hayden's best work (if I had to choose, I'd probably say LAAH)--however, he did the best job anyone possibly could do with what he was given. I still think the confession scene and Shmi's death scene were Oscar-worthy. However, we can agree to disagree on this one.

BTW, if you really want a PPOR on the comments made by his teachers, I'll be happy to look it up--it will take me awhile though. I have an expansive collection of Hayden-related articles.

I disagree with you and Sami_J on one point: Anakin is not supposed to be a stalker. I've read the novelization--nowhere in it does it say that Anakin has stalker-tendencies. (And I had an unfortunate, very frightening experience with a stalker 13 years ago, which I won't go into here, so I know what I'm talking about.) Anakin is supposed to be a young man deeply in love. There is nothing wrong with his trying to convince Padme to admit her feelings. It's not like he was unkind to her or violent, twisting her arm or shoving her on the couch. I didn't think the fireplace scene was the best scene in the movie, but I still thought it was well-done, especially considering the corny lines Hayden was given.

dArTh_SoLo:

Because I named it that to point out how utterly ridiculous the contrary opinion was.

Thank you for clearing that up--I understood that from your first post, but evidently some others didn't.

GL's vision is all that matters, he is the divine answer to everything in SW. I hope future generations appreciate these first three movies more than the present does.

Amen. I'm pretty sick of defending him, too.

Now, JenX:

How is calling Hayden's acting "patchy at best" different from saying he can't act? I'm glad I've never had to deal with anyone calling my teaching "patchy at best" on a messageboard.

And I once again take issue with the idea that some one who tells others to "bite" them if they don't agree with them is in any position to lecture me on childish posts.

No one lectured you on childish posts, dear.

And I posted three laughing faces to show that this was intended as a light hearted joke.

I interpreted the

 

Hayden was outstanding as Anakin. I really couldn't see what was the problem people had with him. I don't care either, as I'm looking forward to see him and Natalie in Episode 3.

 

You are right again anakins_girl, it is the point of starwars, hayden is hot but he is also good. The point is that he is embarrassed by who he is so he must wear a mask, because of how silly he is he gets embarrassed, poor sweet boy, all sad and crying, just like you said, then he gets in the suite and voila! no more sadness now he can be happy.

I find Hayden to be even more yummy then NAtalie though they are both hot stuff. But he is the btter because he understands his character.

Like Anakin guirl said, the point is that they are suppose to act cold and boring, this is how George R Lucas wants it to be. Can't you see that it is star wars? Luke and leis are suppose to be fun and nice because they are good, but padme and anakin are bad so we are suppose to think they are bad people with good looks, this is what George R Lucas wants. I would say it was amazingif my opinion was of good, but since it is not I will refrain, we can only comment on other peoples posts, but not judge the movie because we did not make star wars but we do make posts. Do u see. Anakin_girl knows what I mean.

 

Well I'm new to this thread, but I since I have a definite opinion on Hayden's acting I'll share it.

I did see Hayden in LAAH, he was very good and deserved all the awards he received on it just as a Natalie was very very good in "The Professionals". However, neither one did very good in AOTC IMO.

Hayden was much better than Natalie, who I felt was just there collecting a paycheck. Hayden's biggest flaw IMO was he over-acted where Natalie under-acted. I bring Natalie up in this because I think she negatively effected his performance. He didn't have much to react to so had to make up for it by being overly dramatic.

For example, his leers. This is why I think many of us feel that his behavior is stalkerish. Now, not having read the novel I can't say if this was George's intention or not, but since it wasn't explained in the film I'll just have to wonder. If it was George's intention to present Anakin as an obsessed admirer then Hayden's performance was perfect. He got that point across to the audience and I for one was uncomfortable with him throughout the rest of the love scenes because of it.

I thought Shmi's death wasn't intense enough. I for one wanted more tears, but again it was very well acted.

So I suppose my biggest holdup in determining if I think Hayden did a good job or a below avg job acting in AOTC is if George intended Anakin to be an obsessive admirer, on the cusp of being a stalker or just an inexperienced admirer. If it's the latter then he definitely over acted and I can't for the life of me understand the leers and over aggressiveness.

Where I think the acting fell flat is in the love scenes (especially the queen's audience scene and the fire place scene which were very rough and forced). Again I put this down to Natalie's lack of acting, she showed no passion through out these scenes and I think Hayden was forced to bring in enough for both of them.

As many have said I thought the love scene dialogue was bad and didn't fit the style of the rest of the movie. Now I think I read somewhere that George was trying to match the style of the 30's romances, but I thought his little artsy endeavor really hurt the love story. I also think that Hayden and Natalie seemed uncomfortable saying these lines. It would take very experienced actors to bring those lines off.

My only other observation is his speaking style is odd, his words seemed to be stilted as if he's forcing them out. Is this how he really speaks or is this an attempt at bringing in DV?

 

Exactly.

 

But his is the point. George F Lucas wants us to be unhappy, the PT is about dissappointment and sadness. Youa re suppose to walk out and say "huh?" not say "wow"

 

Anakin isn't supposed to be stalkerish, but he is a bit obsessive over her. There is a MAJOR difference in these two things that people don't necessarily notice.

Anakin genuinely cares about Padme`. He may not truely love her, but he cares about her ALOT.

I know that I can definately identify with Anakin, and the reason I love SW so much is that I see so much of myself in Anakin. It's freeky lol

 

darth solo is right. see anakin is suppsoe to be like a mosnter to scare little girls, but also to look pretty so we do not suspect. Just listen to him, he knows.

Forget about opinions, opinion can't change anything only accepting can.

 

Obi-Can: I disagree with you on some of your points for the simple reason that I didn't see Anakin as "leering," or his behavior as stalkerish. As I've said before when you and I have discussed this on other threads, I've been on the receiving end of stalkerish behavior, and it's a hell of a lot scarier than anything Anakin pretended to do on-screen. I consider any woman lucky who has experienced nothing worse than what Anakin was doing to Padme, because I didn't see it as any more than complete admiration by a very passionate person, and that type of admiration is harmless.

I thought Shmi's death wasn't intense enough. I for one wanted more tears, but again it was very well acted.

I agree with you completely here, and Hayden probably did too. George doesn't like tears, for some reason. In TPM, Pernilla August wanted to cry when Anakin left, but George wouldn't let her. In the confession scene, George didn't want Hayden to cry at all until the very end. It was only by arguing with George to the point of compromise that Hayden was allowed to cry from the beginning of that scene. (This, BTW, is the first time I've ever heard of George giving his actors an inch.)

My only other observation is his speaking style is odd, his words seemed to be stilted as if he's forcing them out. Is this how he really speaks or is this an attempt at bringing in DV?

It isn't how he really speaks. He watched the OT every weekend just before and during the time he was filming AOTC so he could get a feel for how people talked in the SW universe--that's where this style of speaking came from. It's not my favorite style of speaking, but I don't consider it bad acting.

As far as him over-acting--he puts everything he has into his characters. He is passionate. I don't consider it over-acting necessarily, because Anakin is supposed to be a very passionate person.

Palo:

see anakin is suppsoe to be like a mosnter to scare little girls, but also to look pretty so we do not suspect.

You and I have pretty much been in agreement on stuff here, but I have to ask--where the hell did this come from? There's nothing wrong with Anakin in AOTC except that he's got a short temper and some anger issues leftover from a rough childhood. He's not a "monster". He doesn't become Vader until Episode III.

 

DarthSolo,

Well, that's a major switch, from 'stalkerish' to just 'slightly obsessive.'

You're entitled to change your mind, of course. Where you see "slightly obsessive," I see 'stalkerish.' Difference of opinion is what makes a horse race.

IMO, GL wants us to see how possessive Anakin is. GL has repeatedly stated, in several interviews, that Anakin's problem is 'he can't let go, he can't let go of his mother, he can't let go of his girlfriend.' That is the definition of stalkerish behavior, someone who can't let go, even tho the relationship is over.

But, just my opinion.

I still think Hayden's acting rocked, tho.

Lady Sami

 

NO I didn't mean to say stalkerish seriously....because he's not. He might come off as such to some people, but he isn't stalkerish that's my bad I should have cleared that up in my other post

 

Big difference here: Stalkers are dangerous. They often, if not always, resort to violence, either violence towards the person they're stalking or violence towards that person's current lover. (At least this was my experience.) The person being stalked lives in constant fear. I've been there, I know.

This wasn't Anakin. He may have been madly, passionately in love, but he was perfectly harmless. Padme told him to back off, both on Coruscant and on Naboo after their first kiss, and he does and says, "I'm sorry." He tries a little bit harder during the fireplace scene, but even so, after she says no, he backs off, and doesn't say another word about what happened until on Geonosis until Padme tells him she loves him.

If Anakin were stalking Padme, believe me, she would have gone to the Council and requested alternate protection. Even if she didn't do so at first, she would have done so after she got to Naboo--had the Queen call the Council, tell them that Anakin was acting nuts and that she feared for her life, and requested that they send another Jedi. Believe me, I know--as someone who was stalked, I know how we react. However, Padme did not do this.