Two totally different takes on Hayden

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by _dArTh_SoLo, Oct 17, 2002.

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  1. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I think you have missed the point. Even in the beginning of AOTC, Padme makes comments that SHE doesn't like the way Anakin looks at her!

    We don't know if Anakin turns violent against her in Ep. 3, as for what we have seen in AOTC, I wouldn't find it out of character in Anakin, since he is becoming Vader... I mean this is the same guy that cut his own son's hand off!

    It is Anakin's comments to Obi-Wan that add to the "stalker behavior" not as much as his interaction with her. He still doesn't come off as a "love-sick" teen IMO.
    If I talked like that to a girl,and acted like Anakin does, I don't expect her to marry me!
  2. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Padme only makes one comment, and when she does, Anakin backs off. If he were a stalker, he wouldn't back off.

    What happens in Episode III is irrelevant here. We're talking about AOTC. In this movie, Anakin is still a good guy with a short temper and some anger issues from his childhood. He's not Darth Vader--a lot of people tend to forget that. I don't know what happens in Episode III any more than you do. I personally don't think any of Anakin's violence will be directed towards Padme--I don't think he could hurt her any more than he could hurt his own mother (and chopping off Luke's hand, one, happened 20 years later when he was steeped in the Dark Side, and, two, was an accident--he could have killed Luke if he had wanted to. However, like I said, I think this is a topic for another board)--however, I don't know, and neither do you.

    What comments to Obi-Wan? "Just being around her again is...intoxicating..."? "I can't leave her!"? What's the matter with that?

    And as far as the cameras--if Anakin really was playing the peeping tom and watching her because he's a perv and a stalker, he would have gone into her room and insisted that she uncover the cameras, cleverly using her need for protection as an excuse. Stalkers would not shrug off what Padme did, as Anakin seems to--they are more persistent.

    If I talked like that to a girl,and acted like Anakin does, I don't expect her to marry me!

    You're ten years older than Anakin. I don't know anything about your life, but maybe you don't have as many issues as he has, and even if you have, you've had more time to overcome them. You also haven't been cooped up in a temple for ten years with a bunch of celibate Jedi and had to learn courting rules from the likes of Yoda and Ki-Adi-Mundi.
  3. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    Anakin just truly cares for her and is trying to express his feelings, something Jedi don not usually do....
  4. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    He gets the "Don't look at me like that line" on Coruscant, then he makes his move on Naboo and kisses her, then blames HER for it, then they do the "roll in the grass" and finally he "admits" his feelings and is rebuffed again... she "babys" Anakin after the Tusken slaughter, she finally says she loves him in the Arena because she thought she was going to DIE!
    As far as I'm concerned Anakin was going to pursue Padme until he got her, I think that if they hadn't of gotten married at the end of AOTC, Anakin would have probably still tried to pursue her, maybe even as going as far to get Palpatine to aid him in his "obsessive" actions.

    Anakin goes beyond a "love sick" teen and Padme only makes things worse! If she would have told the Jedi Council about the "vibe" Anakin gives her, it would have saved her a lot of trouble in the end.

    BTW, GL isn't going to goas far as to make Anakin seem like a real stalker, this is a PG movie after all, how much money do you think AOTC would have made then? Do you want to take your kids to see "Fatal Attraction" or any "stalker film" in a GFFA?
  5. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    You realize that stalking can develop after a relationship has started. Alot of the time it doesn't start out as "stalking", it turns into stalking, people who are stalked by ex-boyfriends or people who they had friendships/acquantances with. In fact sometimes it doesn't show up until quite some time afterwards. It isn't that he's "stalking" her now, but that he's showing signs of being obsessive and/or over-possessive in a way that can lead to it.

    I found Hayden's "looks" in the scenes discussed to be rather leering, not simply stares of admiration. But I think they were supposed to show the danger lurking just below the surface, barely concealed, so I'm not going to complain about it because then to me they did what they were supposed to do.

    When he apologized for making her uncomfortable, it wasn't a real apology--he smiled as she turned away, he was glad to be getting a reaction out of her. He did pull back after the fireplace scene, which is good, no problem with that, but you notice that it's only after that he decides to go after his mother, whom supposedly he had dreams about which also caused him to semi-talk in his sleep on the freighter to Naboo(according to the novel) as well(meaning that the Naboo scene wasn't the first dream of such severerity he'd had). Why then? He's suddenly very formal with Padme, as though if he can't have her the way he wants her, he'll totally distance himself even from friendship AND more importantly, he'll leave her without protection because she apparently can't fill his image of her anymore. Now its her turn to start with the dangerous behavior--because she starts giving him excuses, well she'll go with him, that way he won't really be reneging on his duty, as she does in the confession scene and as she does after Mace tells him to stay put.

    "Just being around her again is...intoxicating..."?

    And don't think Lucas didn't choose that word carefully--to be intoxicated is to be out of control, is to be unable to think clearly or in the best interests of yourself and people around you.

    Chopping off Luke's hand was not an accident, Vader knew exactly what he was doing--he saw the opportunity to chop off Luke's hand and he took it, he's trying to lead his son down the same dark path he went on.
  6. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    I didn't catch that... [face_laugh]

    You don't really believe that Vader's swordmanship in that sequence shows that Vader cut Luke's hand off by accident?
    [face_laugh]

    Have YOU ever seen a SW movie? ;)
  7. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    ...then he makes his move on Naboo and kisses her, then blames HER for it...

    He blames her for it? Where? She blamed herself for it, but I never saw him blaming her. If he thought it was her fault, he wouldn't have said, "I'm sorry," after she pulled away.

    ...she finally says she loves him in the Arena because she thought she was going to DIE!

    But she wouldn't have married him afterwards if she hadn't meant it. Padme isn't the type who would marry a man she didn't love.

    As far as I'm concerned Anakin was going to pursue Padme until he got her, I think that if they hadn't of gotten married at the end of AOTC, Anakin would have probably still tried to pursue her, maybe even as going as far to get Palpatine to aid him in his "obsessive" actions.

    What are you basing this on? I see no evidence of it. When Padme said they couldn't have a secret relationship because they'd be living a lie, and then Anakin says, "You're right--it would destroy us;" then he backs off until the arena scene, doesn't say another word to her about how much he loves her, even though we all know what his real feelings are.

    I personally think you're trying to turn Anakin into Darth Vader before his time. If you don't like Anakin, that's your business, but don't try to put your own viewpoint of a character into Lucas' vision. George Lucas and Hayden have both said that Anakin is still a good guy in this film, a good guy who has trouble controlling his feelings. There is nothing good about a stalker. They're scary.

    BTW, GL isn't going to goas far as to make Anakin seem like a real stalker, this is a PG movie after all, how much money do you think AOTC would have made then? Do you want to take your kids to see "Fatal Attraction" or any "stalker film" in a GFFA?

    No offense, but I think you're grasping at straws here. If Lucas had wanted Anakin to be a stalker, he would have made him into a stalker. Even if he had to tone down the movie to make it PG, he would have made him more stalker-ish than he actually was, and he would have made him a stalker in the novel and the screenplay, both of which I have. Anakin is no stalker. He's madly in love, and he has no idea what to do about it, but he's harmless.
  8. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    ^^^^^^^^^^

    what she said :)
  9. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Have YOU ever seen a SW movie?

    Excuse me? :mad:
  10. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
  11. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    how could u say that Punisher?

    Maybe she has a different interpretation than you, BIG DEAL...

    don't frieking ask dumb questions like "Have you EVER seen a SW movie?"

    that's just plain stupidity
  12. RidingMyCarousel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2002
    star 6
    Punisher - that comment was rather rude. I don't think comments such as those help discussion whatsoever, and they can be taken as insults. I don't recommend doing it again. I understand that you may have been meaning to say it as a joke, but some haven't taken it that way.
  13. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    You realize that stalking can develop after a relationship has started. Alot of the time it doesn't start out as "stalking", it turns into stalking, people who are stalked by ex-boyfriends or people who they had friendships/acquantances with. In fact sometimes it doesn't show up until quite some time afterwards. It isn't that he's "stalking" her now, but that he's showing signs of being obsessive and/or over-possessive in a way that can lead to it.

    naw ibo: Of course I know that--that's how it happened with me. However, like I told Punisher, what he does in Episode III has no relevance here. I don't think he'll hurt her, but that's not a topic for discussion here.

    He's suddenly very formal with Padme, as though if he can't have her the way he wants her, he'll totally distance himself even from friendship AND more importantly, he'll leave her without protection because she apparently can't fill his image of her anymore.

    I saw that as his recognition of the fact that he can't have her, and his respect for her feelings. If he were a stalker, he wouldn't have returned to formality. He also is, as always, putting his mother first. He isn't leaving Padme without protection as some sort of revenge.

    I think our viewpoints on Anakin here are clouding our POVs on particular scenes.

    Now its her turn to start with the dangerous behavior--because she starts giving him excuses, well she'll go with him, that way he won't really be reneging on his duty, as she does in the confession scene and as she does after Mace tells him to stay put.

    If she were afraid of him, as she would be if he were stalking her, none of this would have happened.

    And as far as Vader and Luke's hand--do you not think that Vader could have killed Luke if he had wanted to?
  14. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    ANAKIN IS NOT A STALKER

    He would NEVER HURT PADME`

    dude common, if you don't see that...well I'm not going to say but...
  15. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    He says in the fireplace seen that "I'm haunted by the kiss you should have never given me."
    He is BLAMING her for the kiss!

    Okay, then the marriage was just another way for Padme to "baby" him like on Tatooine.. "He lost a arm, I better marry him." ;)
    So you would commit to a life long relationship based on the Anakin/Padme relationship shown ONSCREEN so far?

    If you can't see that I'm basing my argument on what happened on the film, I'm sorry. Obviously, the rest I made up for the point I'm trying to illustrate.

    He has to back off, most of the rest of the story concerns his mother or the Geonosis action scenes?
    How logical would it be for Anakin to talk about his "feelings" whle he fighting Geonosian Drones of fighting a Reek in the Arena?

    Sorry, but Anakin is exhibiting Vader tendencies (tusken slaughter, blaming Oni-Wan)... I guess he doesn't when it deals with Padme & the love story? Huh? ;)

    GL is giving hints, I'm not the only person that feels that Anakin's obsessive tendencies are "harmless" or could lead to be a stalker.

    EDITIED DUE TO SOME PEOPLE'S SENITIVITIES!

    Nice link, Binary. ;)
  16. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    that was cruel

    quick edit I see...
  17. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah, count yourself lucky on that edit, because I'm on IM with a mod right now, and I don't appreciate being essentially told that I'm not smart enough to argue these points. :mad:

    I'll address the rest of your post in a minute.
  18. Punisher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Oh, a Mod has to come in here when I make a comment about Vader cutting off Luke's hand, but not about Darth Solo's comment that people are stupid or the comments that people that don't "like" Anakin suck?

    What a double standard!

    Don't bother commenting on my points... free thinking isn't appreciated here, nor pointing out your opinion or having any sense of sarcasm/humor unless you feel the need to be or call yourself a "gusher".

    You are getting what you want... I'm not going to respond to anything posted here.
    YOUR opinions are facts, no matter what.

    Feh.

    Hey if you want me banned, don't make up a lame reason, just say we don't want to hear what you have to say.

  19. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    I apologize if I am just so blunt in my opinion; deal with it.

    I'm sorry if it came across as flaming, but that isn't my intent. I just want meaningful reasons as to why you feel the way u do, which I don't feel you did.

    Again as I said....
  20. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    [image=http://www.geocities.com/celebhunks4/christensen/hayden11.jpg]

    Damn broken image. Click here.

    [face_love]
  21. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    If you consider sarcasm "humor", then it's no wonder we're not getting along. Sarcasm is my pet peeve, it grates on my nerves like fingernails on a chalkboard, and I've decided it's a male trait. I've spent the past twelve years working it out of my husband--quite successfully, I might add.

    Also, if you think I called a mod because you commented about Darth Vader cutting off Luke's hand, you're being incredibly insensitive and obtuse. You obviously think that telling me I have no credibility is OK and isn't against the rules.

    If you will notice, there are people who have disagreed with me, on this thread and others, and have done so in a nice way. I don't care if you disagree, but you're not going to insult me while you do it.
  22. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Quit the flaming on all sides. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
  23. naw ibo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    And as far as Vader and Luke's hand--do you not think that Vader could have killed Luke if he had wanted to?

    That's different from chopping off his hand being an accident. You said Vader chopping off his hand was an accident, whether he could have killed Luke or not doesn't matter in the sense of interpreting that comment. Vader chopped off Luke's hand because he meant to chop off Luke's hand, it was no accident. Maybe he could have killed Luke, maybe he couldn't, but that doesn't change that chopping off Luke's hand was not, oops, an accident.

    He blames her for it? Where?

    In the fireplace scene, "the kiss you should never have given me" leaving a scar and all that--sounds like placing the blame on her.

    If she were afraid of him, as she would be if he were stalking her, none of this would have happened.

    He isn't "stalking" her here, but that doesn't mean his behavior and attitude isn't showing signs of possibly leaning in that direction. That's why alot of women get unfairly blamed for such things happening to them, they don't necessarily recognize the warning signs and take them as dangerous until things have gone fairly far. Nor can they be blamed for it, in those early stages, especially when one is close to the situation, the perspective can be different. You said you went out with the person who in turn did that to you afterwards--did you think they were obsessive or stalkerish when you started going out with them? Of course not, no one would knowingly go out with someone who they thought would treat them like that. At least not normally, as in your case. There are cases of women who are afraid of the men they are going out with, who are possessive and obsessive, abusive, yet they still do it and sometimes they even marry them, knowing or feeling that they are dangerous.

    Sarcasm is humor or can be, depending on how it's meant, just like anything else, that's why there are comedians whose humor is sarcastic--and it certainly isn't just male trait. I know plenty of sarcastic women, but then maybe that's just a Mid-Atlantic area trait. :) In fact I'd say we tend to me more sarcastic then men if anything.
  24. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    GeoCities can go to hell.
  25. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    naw ibo:

    "I'm haunted by the kiss you should have never given me," is just reiterating what Padme said right after they had kissed--"I shouldn't have done that." It wasn't an angry, "If you don't love me, then why did you kiss me? Huh? Huh? Huh?"

    Again, I think our differing views on Anakin's character have colored our viewpoints of this situation.

    As far as the stalkers--yes, you're right. However, that doesn't mean Anakin is showing "stalker-like" tendencies in this movie. Case in point: my soon-to-be stalker acted fairly normal if a little intense, buying me expensive presents, etc.--until he found out that I wasn't going to change my mind about going to college far away from home just because we were in a relationship. Afterwards, he started calling ten times a day, often drunk, threatening suicide. Soon after he became violent.

    This isn't what Anakin does in AOTC. Padme says they can't have a relationship; Anakin backs off. My stalker didn't back off--he went from a normal boyfriend to a stalker when I said that we couldn't stay together. This is what I would expect Anakin to do if he were going to stalk Padme, either in AOTC or in Episode III.

    As far as sarcasm--I've never found it funny, maybe due to negative childhood experiences. That's why, for a long time, I absolutely cringed when I heard the "good job" line in AOTC and the "pathetic life-form" line in TPM. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
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