Two totally different takes on Hayden

Anakin is possesive over her, and a bit obsessive...but he is just trying to express his feelings.

He would NEVER HURT HER, TRUST ME

If you can't see that, well I don't know what could possibly be going through your head

 

Darth Solo, read all of my posts. If you don't feel I was addressing something then you should point it out... saying "You're dancing around the issue" or "Aren't giving meaningful answers" isn't discussing anything I'm doing wrong in my posts!
You are the only one saying that, I could see if there were 50 people saying what you are, but YOU are the only one.

Ani Girl, YOU questioned people's credibility when you were attacking JenX, Lady Sami and myself when you said that since we weren't Hayden's teachers or teachers that saw him in a play.
You look for a comment to use to get people into trouble... you pulled it on me before in other discussions. The end result is that we can't respond to each other.


As KnightWriter said, there is flaming on both sides.
I didn't START IT, but I took part as did many of the people that posted after JenX made her appearance. I surprised it wasn't LOCKED then!

BTW, Darth Solo, ANAKIN DID hurt Padme when he became Vader, he doesn't have to cut her hand off or anything... emotional pain can be MUCH, MUCH WORSE!
Leia said that Padme was hurt in ROTJ... "She was kind, beautiful, .. but SAD."
WHY DO YOU THINK SHE SAID THAT?

 

Anakin_Girl has it right.

Anakin is very much in love with Padme, and like any young teenage guy has problems dealing with his feelings towards her and expressing them. And most teenage guys (myself included) are very leering in their looks towards the female sex. We have no subtle tact wih these things. That doesn't mean I'm a stalker, just inexperienced and awkward at that kind of thing. The same goes with Anakin.

I actually like the love story more than ever now because we actually have a role reverse during it. Up to the Fireplace scene Anakin is very much chasing Padme and revealing his feelings for her, once she tells him to back off he does s and when he has his nightmare the role reversal begins. Suddenley with Anakin distracted by his mothers plight, Padme, during the time they leave Tatooine to their entrance to the arena, is ealing with her feeling towards Anakin and semingly is chasing him. And when she finally confesses her love for him, they both win because they both love each other. Its no longer a matter of chasing each other.

Sorry I know this isn't the thread for it but I just had to write it out.

 

AG, YOU questioned people's credibility when you were attacking JenX, Lady Sami and myself when you said that since we weren't Hayden's teachers or teachers that saw him in a play.

That's not exactly the same as telling me that I obviously don't know anything about Star Wars and I should stick with what I know.

I know just as much about Star Wars as you do. We're both lay people; neither of us are professionals. We're almost the same age; therefore, we saw the OT at almost the same age. There is no reason for you to think that I am any less knowledgable about SW than you are; therefore, the implication that I am is insulting.

However, since you have only seen Hayden act in AOTC, I have reason to believe that you are less knowledgable about his acting than, one, more experienced actors and critics who are in the film business, and, two, people who have been following Hayden's acting since he was just a high school kid in plays.

 

BTW, Darth Solo, ANAKIN DID hurt Padme when he became Vader, he doesn't have to cut her hand off or anything... emotional pain can be MUCH, MUCH WORSE!
Leia said that Padme was hurt in ROTJ... "She was kind, beautiful, .. but SAD."
WHY DO YOU THINK SHE SAID THAT?

well, what if she is dead by the time he is vader or he thinks she is dead? I do not believe Anakin can purposefully hurt Padme`, he cares about her too much to do that.

 

DID I say that Hayden SUCKED or anything like that as a actor in EVERYTHING HE DID?

NO, I DIDN'T.

I based my comments on his work on AOTC, as far as I'm concerned... that is what the thread was dealing with... Hayden's work in AOTC.

I said way back on page 2 or 3, that I like Sam Jackson's work, but I didn't think that the PT has shown his BEST work!
If I had cable and could watch Hayden's show or had a DVD of Life as a House (Why rent or buy a DVD because the actor that plays a SW character is in it, if you don't have any other interest in seeing it, is a WASTE of money to me.) and said the same thing, but used his work in other films were used in the example, you STILL wouldn't like my opinion, even if you felt it was "educated", because it wasn't 100% positive in Hayden's favor.
Don't deny that.

Darth Solo, I'm not even going to fall into that trap of a post.

 

you STILL wouldn't like my opinion, even if you felt it was "educated", because it wasn't 100% positive in Hayden's favor.
Don't deny that.

"You assume too much."

No, I might not like it or agree with it; however, as long as you gave substantial reasons to back up your points, I would have a hard time arguing with you.

If you'll notice, I have had several civil disagreements with other posters on other threads, but for some reason I can't do so with you. I can't even argue with you without you running to another thread to talk about me behind my back.

 

anakin_girl is so right

 

I agree with you lightbird....Actually,there problem is not with anakin but with George Lucas...Because as you said,there problem is with anakin,who is played by Hayden,who instructed Hayden?George did...He instructed Hayden on how to act in the scenes. So, basicly people who trash Hayden all the freaking time!!! You are basicly trashing/bashing George for his poor instructional skills!!! and in return you(bashers)are also complaining about his finished work(meaning the movie)!!! Oh, don't tell me you(the one's that are always and forever bashing Hayden)people did not know that director's instruct their actors on how they want a scene to be played out.So, next time think!!!(directed to all the bashers).

 

but It's george's vision

you cannot discredit that, you do not know what happens until episode III so don't judge it until then buddy

 

you STILL wouldn't like my opinion, even if you felt it was "educated", because it wasn't 100% positive in Hayden's favor.

Okay..You did not like Hayden's acting ability in AOTC. You are entitled to your own opinion..But, let me state mine. You are bashing Hayden and the way he portrayed Anakin. Okay..As I posted earlier..People who are bashing Hayden are basicly trashing George Lucas for his poor instructional/directorial skills. As we all know,well I think,we all know, a director directs/tells there actors how they want the scenes played out and Hayden did just that, he went along with how he was being told a scene should be played(except for certain scenes)out. Now,if you want to have a "civilized "discussion with people..you also have to "act" "civilized" and not go and speak about someone in another thread.You are the one that is being "UNCIVILIZED". Hayden may not be the "Best" actor in the world,But, he was chosen to play anakin..and he is Anakin Skywalker,He will always be Anakin Skywalker..So, learn to deal with it..if you don't like his acting don't watch his movies or shows,even if they are in Cable or not.So, just DEAL WITH IT!!!!

 

I agree with you Darth_Solo..It is George's vision and he should do what he thinks it's best for it..don't get me wrong,I like George Lucas and the way he directs his films.I am trying to make people(bashers) see that if you basicly trash Hayden you are trashing Lucas also,because he picked him,he has/had a vision of Anakin and Hayden fit right in it. I am just trying to make the bashers see that,so maybe, they can stop.I am not judging Lucas..I am just trying to get my point accross to the one's that bash.

 

No, I didn't bash Hayden, I first came here to stop a feeding frenzy, I gave reasons as to why I didn't agree with his portrayal of Anakin.
I had *positives* and *negative* comments when I discussed his work in AOTC. I'm not going to change my opinion because some of you don't agree with me...
You can't "bash" your point of view into my mind.
Any disparaging comment that has to do with Hayden is in response to the attitude that Ani Girl's view was beyond comment. (From MY POV)

Ani Girl, what I did was as childish as you running to a mod everytime you take things too personally.
Two wrongs don't make a right. I do think a few "bashers" and "gushers" can learn a thing or two with this thread. I didn't go running in there asking for help, like some people like to do around here when their opinion is being challenged.


Too bad there isn't a "Gusher Sanctuary", but I think it got locked because the AOTC/TPM boards made it irrelevant!

I leave you guys bring me back... why do you people like to get into arguments then "whine" that there is no dicussion later?

I can say I'm gone... but you will bait me... I guess I need to be the adult and say that this thread has gone way off topic. Should be locked or anything else.

We aren't arguing Hayden's acting anymore, we are arguing about ANAKIN, ME, PEOPLE'S OPINIONS,SARCASM, etc. and those ARE different things.

Darth Solo, I think you are a bit upset over Palo, that's okay.
The GL "vision" argument doesn't work anymore... people just ignore it. Don't waste your time using it. I'm giving you advice... take it.

 

I had *positives* and *negative* comments when I discussed his work in AOTC.

You're right--and that post of yours, at least the part that talked about Hayden, was very good. I believe I responded to that effect at the time.

Any disparaging comment that has to do with Hayden is in response to the attitude that Ani Girl's view was beyond comment.

1) That comment is beyond comment--my viewpoint is just as valid as anyone else's, thank you; and
2) So you think insulting Hayden will make me change my mind?

Ani Girl, what I did was as childish as you running to a mod everytime you take things too personally.

OK, conceded to a point here--since I am told quite often in RL that I am too sensitive and I take things too personally, I will apologize if I did so here. I'm not sure where I did, except possibly in your comment about teachers, but if you want to take the trouble to point my disgressions in this area out to me, I will listen with an open mind.

I do think a few "bashers" and "gushers" can learn a thing or two with this thread.

Agreed--but in order to do that we have to stick to debate rules and not resort to sarcasm or mud-slinging.

I can say I'm gone... but you will bait me... I guess I need to be the adult and say that this thread has gone way off topic. Should be locked or anything else.

I agree that it has gone off-topic, but what I hope will happen is that we can get it back on-topic. Darth-Solo obviously wanted to praise Hayden when he made the thread--that was evident in the first post. If someone wants to say his acting isn't stellar, and has evidence to back it up (and clarifies, as you did on this page, that if you're only talking about AOTC, then you're only talking about AOTC), then that's fine. But when someone just jumps in to a gushing thread and says "I don't think Hayden is a very good actor," someone is bound to get upset. I wasn't the only one. Like I said earlier, the war was going on after I went to sleep last night.

Now, off to get some exercise--at least I.D. does one thing for me--gets me riled up enough to go burn off some calories.

 

Fine, Anakin's Girl, let's call a truce.

We don't comment on each other's posts because we have "personality conflicts".

Continue on with the discussion... this "heated debate" wasn't meant to be a "THREAD KILLER".

Continue... please.

 

We don't comment on each other's posts because we have "personality conflicts".

I think that's a little extreme, and I'm not sure that's completely necessary--I think it would better if we could just agree to be civil. Just MHO.

And...truce. *offers olive branch*

Now, off to run and lift weights.

 

The work "tragedy" comes to my mind. In the long run, this saga ends in triumph, but the next episode is a tragedy, and part of that tragedy is what happens between Anakin and Padme. First of all, George wouldn't have called the relationship between Padme and a stalker a "romance"...and second of all, the tragedy that happens in Episode three includes whatever tears apart Anakin and Padme...not so much of a tragedy is he was this awful stalker that she really didn't love and was better off without.

Have any of you guys ever stared at a girl in a way that made her blush and you thought it was cute? Well, guess what? You made her "uncomfortable"...did that make you a stalker? No.

 

Do we have to use these labels of bashers and gushers? It shows a predisposition to discount each others opinions and means we aren't really listening to each other.

I am not a basher!!!! I love AOTC, it's my second favorite film of the Star Wars series.

However, I think the acting in this film was not on par with the rest of the series, which I realize has not been oscar level. The acting in these movies has never been an issue with me before. I accept that this is not "Sophie's choice" or "Beautiful Mind", it's meant to be fun.

Knowing this however, does not excuse painfully bad acting in some of the scenes. I do agree that George is ultimately responsible for the performances since its the directors job to instruct and demand the performance he wants from his actors.

To be honest, in some of Natalie's scenes it's an outrage that she got away with such bad acting in such a huge film. (However that's another subject).

Also as I've stated before, and some others have as well, the dialogue is almost comic book, but again the dialogue in Star Wars has never been much more. So I ask myself why did it bother me so much in this film.

I think it's because this film took a step closer to being a deeper more meaningful story and then fell short. The characters are no longer comic book: they have depth, you see the psychology behind their actions, you see their pain. You know this has the potential to be a great romantic tragedy, but instead falls flat on silly fixable mistakes, one of which is bad acting by actors you know have the talent.

Getting back on subject, as to Hayden his performance is eratic. Now what I mean by that is he's good in one scene then not so good in another. I put this down to him not really understanding where Anakin is coming from, what the motivation is behind his actions. This is very much a directorial error IMO. The director is the one that should explain the motivations, the goal of a scene etc...

The leers are in my view purposeful. I think for whatever reason George instructed Hayden to give those looks and be overly aggressive in his pursuit. I believe he does this to make the romance suspect. It is supposed to be sinister in nature, not quite right. So I really don't fault Hayden in this I think he set the right tone and made us feel that Anakin's love for Padme is tainted.

What I do fault Hayden for, are the love scenes. He doesn't get it right, the lines are delivered in an almost whiney and angry tone. I felt a more pleading and love sick demeanor was called for. Again, why George didn't stop to get it right, I don't know. The fireplace scene is one of the few scenes that I thought Natalie got it right and Anakin got it wrong. The I hate sand scene, was just bad!

I thought the best scene in the love story was the meadow scene. They were both relaxed and comfortable. I think the dialogue had a lot to do with this. I truly wish we got more of this, rather than the painful uncomfortable scenes like: the fireplace, the early morning balcony scene on Naboo and the I hate sand scene.

This is just my opinion, and instead of calling me a basher tell me what you think about these specific scenes and Hayden's acting. But, what I don't want to know is what you think of me and I'm sure no one else does either!!!

 

"The I hate sand scene, was just bad!"

I'm of the opinion that Hayden took that bad line, (BTW, it's "I don't like sand) and the lines that followed in that scene, and delivered them brilliantly. Not an easy thing to do.

 

Personally, I think Hayden did a fairly good acting job with what he was given. He wasn't really allowed to play much more than whiny and sullen... which he did well enough.

However, I personally DO think he is also dangerously obsessive with Padme, and I find it hard to fathom how some people view his intentions and actions as romantic, when every internal alarm I have went off the moment he started going on about how he had been thinking about he every moment for the last ten years and dreaming about her.

Anakin has shown that he is dangerous when thwarted, and I suspect that is going to lead to his ultimate break with Padme. His relationship with her is illicit in the eyes of the Jedi, and he is going to have to make a choice and his anger at doing so will probably spell their doom.

It will be interesting to see how this relationship develops, but in my opinion, the seeds of its destruction are already planted deep.

 

...I find it hard to fathom how some people view his intentions and actions as romantic, when every internal alarm I have went off the moment he started going on about how he had been thinking about he every moment for the last ten years and dreaming about her.

You took him literally. I'm sure at some given moment in the past 10 years, he was thinking about his mother, his training, or how much he'd like to give Yoda a wedgie. Those lines he was saying were just cheesy romance lines.

As I've said, I've had a stalker, and Anakin isn't a stalker.

 

I can't help but wonder if everyone saw the same movie...


It's disappointing to see what could have been a decent, civil thread has turned into a fist-shaking fest.

I've already stated my opinion on Hayden & Anakin but I'm willing to give it a go again.

I never saw him as the 'stalker type', inexperienced w/relationships - oh yea, but not a stalker. I think every woman has had a 'leer' directed at her from a admirer. It's a look, nothing more - unless it's consenting. Anakin doesn't 'blame' Padme for their kiss, he is simply remembering the moment & wishing he could have it again - not the same as a stalker IMO.

Remember folks - it takes 2 to tango. When Padme said no, Anakin backed off until she told him how she felt. And how was his look then? Surprise? Shock? Elation? A combination of the 3?

As far as the Tuskens, when you love someone & they commit an atrocious act do you abandon them or try to help & give comfort?

Compassion - such a wonderful word.


Edit: how much he'd like to give Yoda a wedgie

AG - LMAO. Thanks I needed that.

 

"I think every woman has had a 'leer' directed at her from a admirer. It's a look, nothing more ..."

It may be a "look" but it says a lot. It says, "I see you as a sexual object and at this moment that is all your are to me. I am envisioning you without clothing. I am imagining what I would like to do with you."

It is not a flattering or respectful sort of look. And it is not the same as admiring someone's beauty...but rather it is more a crude second cousin that violates the sense of self.

Maybe some women are flattered by such looks, but frankly I find them distasteful. I much prefer a smile.

 

"You took him literally."

Of course I did not take him literally! Certainly he has thought of other things, but the fact that he SAYS that suggests he is very focused upon her.

"Those lines he was saying were just cheesy romance lines."

Well, I agree with that...some of his lines were cheesier than Cheese Whiz! LOL!

"As I've said, I've had a stalker, and Anakin isn't a stalker."

I did not use the word stalker... I said dangerously obsessive. He does not need to stalk her...he is with her the whole time. And yes, he backs off when asked to, but he is still in her presence and thus hope remains. Especially since SHE keeps sending him such mixed messages....

The whole situation is unhealthy, and I suspect GL wishes us to see that.

 

I am wondering... if the obsessive/stalker & the inexperienced/harmless teen
viewpoint is based on sex? Or location?
I'm not going into personal details.

I mean both sides are pretty adamant about what they saw!

I'm a male and I think the "romance" storyline really stretches it, but I feel he's just undressing her with his looks. He's using his "cute" image to get away with a lot, the little smirks (just like PALPATINE! )... I've explained exactly "what" in earlier posts.

Maybe this is worth investigating... or continuing here. Wished there was a way to vote on it...

My vote obsessive stalker, not inexperienced kid.
I'm male, I was born in California, but I currently live in Tennessee.