U.S. booed and heckled at Earth Summit!

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by obhavekenobi78, Sep 4, 2002.

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  1. MASTER_OBI-DAN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    When you break it all down things really are comparable.

    No, try again. Carbon sinks and total pollution output per annum illustrate how absurb your point is.

    And again, if the US doesn't do it, someone else will fill the void, and quite possibly with lower standards.

    Well, when if that day comes, the world community will be sure to criticize them, when they take your place as the world's largest single polluter. But for now, let's stick to REALITY shall we. ;)

    I'm not saying it's perfect but to try and force restrictions that hurt an already weak economy, you must be joking.

    Surely you must be joking, my friend. If nothing is done now to halt The Greenhouse Effect/Global Warming, cyclical economic difficulties now will seem like nothing in comparison to those 25 years from now, when drought, acid rain, sea level changes/flooding, UV radiation, etc. really come into their own. The signs that we're seeing now with the environment are just a taste of what is to come if the emission of greenhouse gases are not curbed immediately by all nations. ;)

    The carbon sinks is just an excuse and isn't a valid point. If pollution is the worlds problem then how can pollution filters belong to a single country?

    Carbon sinks are HUGE. Together with cutting pollution, they are the keys to reversing the effects of The Greenhouse Effect/Global Warming. And contrary to what you say, carbon sinks can and do belong to a single nation (in some cases). Case in point, Canada and its vast forests; our respective governments (federal and provincial) have decided to protect some Old Growth Forests, chosen sustainable forestry practices (there is room for debate here - but it should be in another thread), and actively engaged in silverculture (replanting); in contrast to cutting everything tree down which is our option as a sovereign nation (the last I heard, the Philippines was 95% deforested). THIS WAS OUR CHOICE; thus, all the acclaim and criticism (some say we should being doing more - fair enough) belongs to our nation. Similar practices exist in the US, but the sheer size of Canadian forests FAR OVERSHADOW those found in the US. Thus, it would be wise to give the appropriate credit where credit is due; instead of making illogical and absurd comments like "carbon sinks is just an excuse and isn't a valid point." [face_laugh]

    Edits: additions.
  2. Maveric Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    Surely you must be joking, my friend. If nothing is done now to halt The Greenhouse Effect/Global Warming, cyclical economic difficulties now will seem like nothing in comparison to those 25 years from now, when drought, acid rain, sea level changes/flooding, UV radiation, etc. really come into their own. The signs that we're seeing now with the environment are just a taste of what is to come if the emission of greenhouse gases are not curbed immediately by all nations.


    Scientists said twelve years ago that if we did not stop global warning in 10 years that by the year 2000, the earth would be uninhabitable.


    For every scientific report that confirms the existence of global warming, there is a response that what we are seeing is a natural trend in the world's atmospheric cycle.
  3. StarFire Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    Finally! Somebody who doesn't run and hide when an actual debate about Global Warming occurs :p
  4. Kuna_Tiori Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2002
    star 4
    To all you big industrialists: I respect your concern for your business and all that, but screw it! It doesn't really matter how much your business will be hurt, cuz when the day of reckoning comes it'll be more than just the factories that suffer. The environment is not worth sacrificing for the economy, it's that simple. Why? Because without the environment, you wouldn't have any business, you'd be dead!

    Ok, that's my rant.

    P.S. Even if the theories of global warming are disproved, it still doesn't give us the right to destroy the environment, kill trees and wildlife, etc. etc. etc.
  5. Red-Seven Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 5
    Who says that religion is dead? The new spiritualism and faith and belief system capable of overriding any logic seems to be Environmentalism.



    Is everyone being obtuse, and ignoring my post on the previous page, about Mugabe and rude NGO disruption?
  6. MASTER_OBI-DAN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    Scientists said twelve years ago that if we did not stop global warning in 10 years that by the year 2000, the earth would be uninhabitable.

    Mav, I don't deny that mistakes have been made on both sides of the Global Warming\Greenhouse Effect debate (that's the very nature of scientific research); but, in recent years, evidence that both these commensurate problems are currently occurring has become undeniable. Here some excerpts from the American-based Sierra Club Website on Global Warming:


    1. Global Warming: Overview.

    "The world's leading scientists project that during our children's lifetimes, global warming will raise the average temperature of the planet by 2.7 to 11 degrees Fahrenheit.

    The Earth is only 5 to 9 degrees warmer today than it was 10,000 years ago during the last ice age. Throughout history, major shifts in temperature occurred at a rate of a few degrees over thousands of years. They were accompanied by radical ecological changes, including the extinction of many species. Manmade global warming is occurring much faster ? faster, in fact, than at any time in the past 10,000 years. Unless we slow and ultimately reverse the buildup of greenhouse gases, we will have decades, not millennia, to try to adapt to radical changes in weather patterns, sea levels and serious threats to human health. Increased flooding, storms and agricultural losses could devastate our economy. Plants and animals that cannot adapt to new conditions will be come extinct. The world's leading scientists project that during our children's lifetimes, global warming will raise the average temperature of the planet by 2.7 to 11 degrees Fahrenheit.

    But How Much of a Difference Can a Few Degrees Make?
    P L E N T Y.

    The human race is engaged in the largest and most dangerous experiment in history ? an experiment to see what will happen to our health and the health of our planet when we change our atmosphere and our climate. This is not some deliberate scientific inquiry. It is an uncontrolled experiment on the environment of the Earth, and we?re gambling our children?s future on its outcome. The results of this pollution are already significant. We have increased levels of carbon dioxide (CO2), the primary global warming gas, in our atmosphere by 30 percent in the past 100 years. Some regions of the world have already warmed by as much as 5 degrees Fahrenheit. Physicians at Harvard University and Johns Hopkins medical schools and other medical institutions have issued grim assessments that global warming may already be causing the spread of infectious diseases and increasing heat-wave deaths. Extreme weather events have become more common. Plants and animals around the world are shifting their ranges in an effort to escape a changing climate.

    The rapid buildup of greenhouse gases in our atmosphere is the source of the problem. By burning ever-increasing quantities of coal, oil and gas, we are choking our planet in a cloud of this pollution. If we don?t begin to act now to curb global warming, our children will live in a world where the climate will be far less hospitable than it is today."

    2. Global Warming: Evidence Mounts.

    For years, powerful computers have been used to project the results of global warming. Grim predictions of sea level rise and the spread of infectious disease raised the issue of global warming in the minds of many Americans. Scientists now are becoming increasingly alarmed as more and more of these predictions come true.

    Some events that scientists point to as evidence that global Warming has begun:

    -Major shifts in temperature and precipitation. Some parts of the world have warmed by as much as 4.5 degrees Fahrenheit or more in the last 100 years. The average temperature of the planet has risen about 1 degree Fahrenheit.

    -Shifting ranges of infectious disease, and increasing cases of infection around the world. Since 1995, dengue fever has infected
  7. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Red-Seven,

    I indeed saw your post and, of course, you are right. It pretty much shows how eager people are to criticize the United States.

    As far as all of you poster making statements in regard to how great your country is as compared to the United States, I would be curious to have an insider look into your daily lives. Do you drive a fuel efficient car? Do you stay away from Styrofoam and plastics? Do you do anything in anyway to contribute to the environmental cause? You don't need to answer these questions. I know the answer.
  8. StarFire Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    In contrast, MASTER_OBI-DAN, the evidence/opinions in this entire one-sided thread that never got off the ground: Global Warming
  9. MASTER_OBI-DAN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    Thanks for the link, StarFire. ;)
  10. StarFire Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    It's pure coincidence that I started that thread ... pure coincidence! I swear!!

    :p
  11. MASTER_OBI-DAN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    It's pure coincidence that I started that thread ... pure coincidence! I swear!!

    [face_laugh] LOL @ StarFire! [face_laugh]
  12. Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    MASTER_OBI-DAN those scientist said everything in Fahrenheit, an imperial system unit.

    Last time I checked scientist are not allowed to use the imperial system, only the metric system :p
  13. MASTER_OBI-DAN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    MASTER_OBI-DAN those scientist said everything in Fahrenheit, an imperial system unit.

    Last time I checked scientist are not allowed to use the imperial system, only the metric system


    Okay....

    Alright, I'll try to explain it for you, Darth_Omega. The Sierra Club is an organzation that was founded in the US. The passage was taken from their American website; thus, it is attempting to reach an American audience. Hence, the use of the Imperial System, which is still used in the US.
  14. Maveric Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    That is why I hate the US!!! Conform darn you!!! CONFORM!!!!

    Stupid Americans. Don't they know they will adopt the metric system or die?
  15. Wylding Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Conformity is the sincerest form of brain death.
  16. Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    [face_plain]

    I made a little comment, which was not intended to be taken seriously, because I used a silly face: :p

    However, MASTER_OBI-DAN took me seriously and answered seriously. (although no matter where the scientist comes from it must always use the metric system)

    Then Maveric with no apperent reason made a nice sarcastic respond (although he forgot to add British, you know Stupid Americans & British :p )

    And as last Wylding said a nice remark which is IMO not true because conformity always means change, adept. If you adept that would mean you must use your brains.
  17. Maveric Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    Since when do I need a reason to be sarcastic?
  18. Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Since when do I need a reason to be sarcastic?

    *shrugs*

    Dunno, but you're sarcastic, that is for certain :p
  19. Rikalonius Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    The world's leading scientists project that during our children's lifetimes, global warming will raise the average temperature of the planet by 2.7 to 11 degrees Fahrenheit.

    The bolded statement should be changed to; "The worlds scientist who depend on government grants to coninue their research say...."

    I have provided a great argument to Obi-Dan and the completely unbiased Sierra Club's :D very generous warming data. It is from the Greening Earth Society. It is lengthy, so only those concerned with scientific discussion need read

    No Warming Here




  20. Red-Seven Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 5
    and with that, this stream of conciousness has reached its zenith of off-topic discussion.
  21. MASTER_OBI-DAN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    The Sierra Club Website: ?The world's leading scientists project that during our children's lifetimes, global warming will raise the average temperature of the planet by 2.7 to 11 degrees Fahrenheit.?

    Rikalonius: ?The bolded statement should be changed to; "The worlds scientist who depend on government grants to coninue their research say...."

    What are you trying to say here? :confused: You know what, I?m not going to even attempt to decipher what you were trying to say here or meant (for that matter). It?s a little too incoherent for my tastes. ;)

    Rikalonius: I have provided a great argument to Obi-Dan and the completely unbiased Sierra Club's very generous warming data. It is from the Greening Earth Society. It is lengthy, so only those concerned with scientific discussion need read.

    Actually, I don?t really know what you?re talking about here either. First off, in case you didn?t know, the Sierra Club is easily one of the most moderate and the most highly respected environmental NGO in the United States today. ;)

    In addition, here are some other highly respected environmental NGOs on the international scene that corroborate virtually everything stated on the Sierra Club Website on Global Warming:

    1) WWF: Climate Change Campaign

    2) David Suzuki Foundation

    Secondly, are you joking when you say that you (through your Greening Earth Society Source) are providing ?a great argument to? my provided sources and I? :confused: Do you have any idea what the Greening Earth Society is? Who founded it? Who pays for its expenses and spurious articles? :confused:

    Well, here are some websites and enlightening passages (from them) that answer those all important questions about the Greening Earth Society:

    1. Union of Concerned Scientists in the United States of America: Responding to Global Warming Skeptics-Prominent Skeptics Organizations

    Greening Earth Society:

    "The Greening Earth Society (GES) was founded on Earth Day 1998 by the Western Fuels Association to promote the view that increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 are good for humanity. GES and Western Fuels are essentially the same organization. Both used to be located at the same office suite in Arlington, VA. Until December 2000, Fred Palmer chaired both institutions. The GES is now chaired by Bob Norrgard, another long-term Western Fuels associate. The Western Fuels Assocation (WFA) is a cooperative of coal-dependent utilities in the western states that works in part to discredit climate change science and to prevent regulations that might damage coal-related industries.

    Spin: CO2 emissions are good for the planet; coal is the best energy source we have."

    2. Colorado Engineer Magazine: The Greening Earth Society vs. The State of the World

    ?As it turns out, the Greening Earth Society was created and is run by Western Fuels Association. Yes, that's right; one of those multi-million dollar corporations hoping to run the world some day. And what does the Greening Earth Society tell us? "Using fossil fuels to enable our economic activity is as natural as breathing." In other words, as long as we keep on burning coal, oil and gas, we'll be fine. "[Palmer's] answer comes in handy because it allows him to conclude that we should continue to burn fuels to our heart's desire, or perhaps more accurately, to the desire of the coal interests that support his organization," says Tans. Fredrick Palmer just wants to assure Americans that it is still al
  22. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    There IS NO reason to use so many markup codes and smilies. ;) :) :D [face_mischief] :p [face_devil]
    We all know you can look at this page:
    See, even I can post a link!

  23. I am trying to stop doing this
  24. But I just can't



  25. There, I think I used them all.
  26. Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Darth_Omega, you have my sincerest apologies. I was not sure if your post was intended as a joke or a serious query; thus, I thought I better be safe and answer it seriously.

    No problem :) :p

    There, I think I used them all

    you forgot:

    1. headers
    2. list with numbers
    3. image link thingie :p
  27. Rikalonius Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    Obi-Ben

    Wow, I really touched off a nerve. Ok, then. To reading your articles I go... but, before i do,

    Yes I know who is behind the greeningearthsociety, that in itself doesn't make the information incorrect.

    Is the earth cooling, or is it warming. I'm in NO way a scientist, but I grow tired of hearing from the same people who have been wrong over and over again.

    The area around Mt Saint Helens was suppose to be uninhabitable for 50 years. 10 years later I climbed the Mountain and looked out and couldn't see the hint of a volcanic eruption, save the smoke coming from the inner crater.

    You have always been fair minded in your posts so I will read through your data and do some research for myself.

  28. celera Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 2
    Has anyone got the latest issue of National Geographic? It's the best issue yet. It talks about water shortages from around the world and has an environmental report card from a bunch of scientests. It also has an article about the Great Lakes which are drying up because they didn't freeze during the winter. I think that's a sign of bad things to come.

    The United States is a country of gluttony. Don't get me wrong, I'm an American who loves her country but I'm tired of how some people use patriotism as an excuse to drive SUV's that waste gas and to rationalize other stuff I can't think of right now. I heard Dunkin Donuts throws the food off their shelves every 4 hours. This is from someone whose friend works there. When I eat at buffets, some people have no etiquette and load up crab legs and lobsters on their plates. Gluttonny can have its own thread though. The point is that patriotism blinds Americans to global problems. Actually most do know about global warming but can't even sacrifice their car size. Come on, no one's asking you to give up driving. If you only have two kids or you're just single, you don't need an SUV and most will never drive on road conditions that call for it.
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