Senate "Race" Relations (was "U.S. Society and Black Men")

Mr44 - you know oftentimes (if not always) it is just better to accept when you are mistaken and then quarantine that error from the other points you are making. I know in law enforcement in Australia there is a tendency for law enforcement officers to be coached into denying error at all costs or obfuscating error to avoid the larger testimony being tainted or a perception of taint. This is a practice which has been well criticized and I know for a fact that the Australian Federal Police have well and truly moved away from this approach (I know because my old man taught in the AFP College for 17 years). You should too.

 

you can say whatever you want, vezner

 

LOH, the problem is that there is no error. I realize that in my original post I used the phrase "pushed backward." But also in that same post, I prefaced it with "I don't want to get too technical here" plus "I'll admit that bullets have unpredictable effects" plus "it's not like in the movies where the person is sent backwards 15ft." Have you ever described something in general terms? It's like calling the old V-8 Mustang a "5.0 liter," or Mustang 5-0," because that's what it was popularly known as, but having some jackass come in an "clarify" that the engine displacement is actually 4.89 liters according to displacement ratio calculations, so that "proves" that the original statement is wrong. But there is nothing to be proven wrong about. The point was never to calculate engine displacement in the first place, so who cares? I wouldn't have guessed in a million years that KK would pull some random bullet table off the internet, for a bullet that we don't even know was used in the situation, and pretend like it refuted anything in my post. For whatever reason, KK is singularly focused on proving something wrong by using velocity tables, but I don't care about those. An entire body isn't pushed backwards like a lead weight, so it's pointless for him to attempt to disprove that it would. It's meaningless to the situation. The only thing KK's tables apply to is the hypothetical.

I deeply apologize to KK for using the 2 words "pushed backward." But why KK focused on those two words in isolation, out of a larger reply, is anyone's guess. I only used that term in the general sense, because to get any more in-depth would be stupid, as it indeed turned out to be. The one point was that it isn't the probable outcome that Brown would continue in the exact same motion he was in after being shot 4 times. There's literally nothing in KK's table that addresses this or applies to the situation. The funny thing is that the majority of the people here don't even know what those tables mean.

If you look back, I originally just let KK's table stand without comment, because it was just hypothetical and it didn't need any additional comment. I didn't give it another thought. It wasn't until Merk and KW randomly came in and indicated that since I didn't comment on it, KK's table must have proven me wrong...about something... they just didn't know what. I thought "are they talking about KK's velocity table? What do they want to know about it?" And as predicted, that meaningless table has become the center of attention.

 

lmao LOH now when i read 44's posts i read them in the cop voice from like TruTV interviews where they're like "i was able to uhhh ascertain at that point ummmm that the individual..."

 

I can see all the space he'd admitting for possible error, can't you guys?

 

if the kennedy assassination taught us anything, its that bullets do NOT necessarily obey the laws of physics

 

SERPICO

 

This is a must-read.

 

Despite his significant potential conflicts of interest and biases, I remain hopeful that the Ferguson DA is actually running in this Grand Jury investigation with a focus on the truth. With that in mind, I'm hoping this report from the DA's office that the leaks are false/misleading is true.

I found this bit encouraging, in particular:

 

There are so many variables in play that there is no single iron clad rule.

Just look at the JFK assassination as an example. Conspiracy nuts see his head jerk backwards and conclude he must have been shot from the front. Ballistics people who know how these things work see his head jerk backwards and find that it is completely consistent with being shot from behind because it is the exit wound exploding out the front of his face which causes the backwards jerking.

 

similar to my knowledge of new york city, everything i know about exit wounds i learned from teh film "Exit Wounds" starring DMX and steven seagal

 

I hate to admit that I liked that movie.

 

i cant remember if that's the one where dmx has the shotgun with like a cord aroudn the trigger and he throws it up and fires it that way from cover? or was that cradle 2 tha grave?

 

Crap. Gonna have to research that now

 

souderwan this is really bad. he dodges a point blank gunshot and then kicks the guy in the face. and all this during an "anger management is dumb" sub-plot

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/29/utah-police-shooting/18102775/

Well I sure am glad the cops have made society safe from samurai-sword wielding black youth.

This happened some time ago. I thought it seemed suspect at the time. Now we find out through his autopsy he was shot in front and in the back several times.

Some people just shouldn't be cops. They don't have the temperament nor the common sense to wear the badge.

I hope the mother of the kid sues the city into bankruptcy.

 

utah police said race wasnt a factor lol

 

Classic

 

That is encouraging. However, I very much dislike their handling of this issue overall. One issue that hasn't been raised often is that the grand jury is only meeting one day a week. That seems like an incredibly slow pace, especially given all the information they're trying to sort through. I cannot honestly believe they couldn't go faster. Part of the guarantee of justice in the US is that it is delivered expediently. By contrast, I can't help but think he's deliberately dragging his feet, hoping that people will simply get tired of the issue by the time a decision is actually reached.

An internal review has found them to be a white and delightful police force.

 

How often do grand juries usually convene? I have no clue.

 

RIP rumsmuggler.

Also:
'Darrien Hunt ran away and police fired four more times as they chased him, the report says.'

Is this for real? Oh he's running away, that's not what we wanted! Better TERMINATE WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE!

 

One day a week is typical, usually on a set day like Monday. It's also has a set total time- such as "either the maximum of one Monday a week for 3 months, or 12 total Mondays, whichever comes first."

For large single cases it's set up like that because Grand Juries are discovering the evidence, so if they want to talk to a witness, a subpoena is issued, and you need time to have it sent, served, etc... Actual trials don't need the break in between days because by the trial date, both sides already know what evidence is going to be presented and which witnesses are going to be called, so all that will be determined before the trial starts.

 

Average meeting time varies from locale to locale. The basal rate is about once per week, but the pace can be accelerated for major cases. The prosecutor has declined to do so. Similarly, there's no requirement of extensive discovery in a grand jury. The prosecutor is only obligated to present enough evidence to justify the charges he wants to bring. After all, the determination is not about whether the person is ultimately guilty or innocent. It's just saying that there is enough a case to deserve a full, formal hearing in court. This case is unusual in that the prosecutor has declined to recommend any charges and is asking the grand jury to help "investigate" the case. Given how deferential to prosecutors grand juries tend to be, I'd tend to read this as a lack of desire on his part to indict.

 

While I agree with your assessment about how deferential grand juries are to prosecutors, are you sure that the prosecutor's office in that jurisdiction has the authority to accelerate a grand jury schedule? (I have no idea if it does) Typically, the justice commission, or elected county board, etc..whichever body has authority over court procedures controls things like that. So, for example, if the county board only budgeted for 50 grand jury days total for the year, the prosecutor wouldn't be able to accelerate it more quickly without approval, because you would have to pay court security, stenographers, support personnel etc...

Also, grand juries potentially take longer because the prosecutor doesn't influence what the grand jury asks for, which is the reverse of how a trial operates. During a criminal trial, both lawyers completely control what is seen by the jury. During Grand Jury, the grand jury asks questions of the prosecutor until it either agrees that a crime has been committed, or doesn't think the prosecutor met the standard that a crime occurred. For or example, a prosecutor could choose to present 2 witnesses out of 10 to the grand jury in order to meet the basic standard to get approval to go to trial. The grand jury can certainly ask to talk to all 10 witnesses before making a decision and the prosecutor would have to comply.

 

There's a reason why it is said that you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.

Ken White (from Popehat) gives an interesting look at how grand juries operate, from his time as a prosecutor:

I strongly recommend the entire piece.