Amph Ultimate Deadpool

Does anyone else hate Brian Michael Bendis for this as much as I do?

 

Why? Because he acted more like his origin in the 616 universe than he does now in the 616 universe? Because they had the nerve to make him different in the different universe? Because they gave him a mutant hating agenda(initially)?

Me? I don't hate Bendis for this. It was a fun ride and I enjoyed Kitty v Peter throughout the arc. I'm not upset about Deadpool's different ULTIMATE behavior because I realize that he was meant to be smarter and a less schizo insane and more hate insanity.

Of course, he's regenerated once now, at the end of 94, this may mean that he's a mutant in the Ulti-verse and that now that he has the cyborg pieces gone he will have to come to terms with being the very thing he hates. Meaning in future appearances he may be a self-hating, suicidal, schizophrenic character.

Remember, 616 Deadpool wasn't made the awesome character he his today by his original writer(or artist for that matter). It was the writers that wrote him as time went on that made him awesome. So, no, I don't hate Bendis. If anything I'm glad that we now have an Ultimate Deadpool. Now we need an ultimate Death so Wadey can get his datin' on.

~*!~-~DOCTOR BEAR~-~!*~

 

Nerve? Oh yeah, I'd forgotten. "Nerve" is what the UU is all about, right? Just like the "nerve" it took to make Ultimate Cap a genetically-modified supersoldier, or the "nerve" they must have had to make Ultimate Spider-Brat a teenager, or Ultimate Tony Stark a billionaire industrialist.

In Marvel comics, that's as old as the hills and an order of magnitude more tiresome to look at.

"Smarter"? Give me a break.

Like approximately 90% of all Marvel characters nowadays. My, how fresh and original.

So what reason was there for them to throw it out and start with a re-hash of basically every last stock cliche X-Men villain ever?

What Bendis did to Deadpool is about equivalent to Millar writing Ultimate Captain America as a Vietnam-era draft-dodger, kidnapped by the eeeeeevil government and forced into the Super Soldier program ala Weapon X.

Actually, I'd say it tends to fluctuate depending on who's writing at the time, with the current author probably being one of the worst, (Deadpool as written by the majority of the others wouldn't have taken the kind of crap from Cable that he does now) though that's not saying much, as he's been written pretty well in general, especially compared to the usual Marvel fare, particulary the X-Men.

 

Ultimate Deadpool acts more like his Liefeld drawn origin than he does after they developed his character.

Oh yeah, because Merc who can't stop talking, who at one point used an image inducer and can regenerate his body.
Is soo far off base here. Face it, the only major differences was how he became scarred and that he was given a mutant hating agenda(which is a major issue in the Ultimate Universe, it appears, probably moreso than in the 616 at the moment).

But just to continue along your lines: Like the "nerve" they had to make Mr. Sinister a mutant killing psycopath with a gun who had visions of Apocalypse. Like the "nerve" they had to make Vision a female robot who warns planets of Gah Lak Tus. The "nerve" they had to make give Ultimate Silver Surfer wings and possibly be more than one being. The "nerve" they had to make Ultimate Green Goblin an actual Goblin and not just a man in a goblin suit. The "nerve" they had to make Ultimate Hobgoblin Harry Osborn and an actual goblin monster. The "nerve" they had to make Ultimate Venom a cure for cancer gone awry. The "nerve" they had to make Ultimate Carnage a hostless clone of Venom with Parker DNA that goes around absorbing life forces to survive. The "nerve" they had to make Electro a being composed of electricity. Need I go on?

This is the one area that I agree with you on. I don't like that he was given a mutant hating agenda but I think it could lead to some good development later.

Straight from Bendis' mouth. They wanted to make him more like Vince Vaughn or some such and less like Jim Carrey. They wanted to give him a smarter voice.

And it would also go more with the "smarter" sense of humor they're wanting to give him.

Um, because this isn't supposed to be "let's take 616 Deadpool and transplant him to the Ultiverse." No. It was a new origin story for a new universe. The Ultimate Universe, while having several similarities in the major names, isn't supposed to be the 616 Universe verbatim.

Of course it fluctuates, tis the hazard of reading comics. The point is that he has developed into the character he is now from an origin that wasn't very close to what he is now. Shoot, he didn't even talk in yellow bubbles in his first appearance.

~*!~-~DOCTOR BEAR~-~!*~

 

Okay, I'll give you that for the moment. I wasn't quite sure what you were getting at to begin with.

I'm a bit confused as to which Deadpool you're referencing here; the Ultimate one, or the real one.

Oh, I don't think so. We'll see how and why a little further down.

And with very good reason.

Please do. Maybe you'll realize something

Ultimate Norman and Harry Osborn mutate into actual goblin-creatures. Big deal. Their personalities and motives still fall almost directly in line with the originals, and ditto for Electro. Being a cure for cancer merged with a college student doesn't radically change Venom's powers, purposes or personality, nor does it really cause his interactions with Spider-Man to be that much different from his 616 counterpart (at least initially), and I could care less about Carnage, but for Bendis' blink-and-you-miss-them plots and use of Carnage to kill off Gwen Stacy (keeping Gwen alive, now that would have been nerve!). I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

So far as I've seen, these characters still go about fulfilling pretty much the same roles or purposes that the originals had, with the same personalities and only minor cosmetic changes or differences in dates and origins for most, but someone seems to have confused Wade Wilson's role with Donald Pierce's, or maybe Trevor Fitzroy's.

Character are difficult to think up. Characters with some depth are even harder, and truly unique characters are truly rare. I'm not going to assume that everyone is going to think of Deadpool as being really unique, but superheroes and super-powered mercenaries are a dime a dozen, and can tend to blend together. What makes Deadpool stick out, essentially, has been discarded, and without his uniquely maniacal humour, internal torture and blatant disregard for the fourth wall, in short, his humanity, there's nothing left but a generic hired baddy in a tight-fitting bodystocking.

We'll see, I guess.

I know, but that doesn't necessarily make it true, nor does Bendis' concept of "smart" really seem to jive with the way most people would understand it, in either of the two most common definitions. From what I've seen, 616 Deadpool is a heck of a lot smarter than Bendis' stand-in with regards to fighting mutants.

 

I'm a bit confused as to which Deadpool you're referencing here; the Ultimate one, or the real one.

That was the point. Structurally, he's his 616 character at origin only with cybernetics and a mutant hate agenda. That's the only major difference between his Ultimate Universe origin and his 616 origin.


Please do. Maybe you'll realize something

Ultimate Norman and Harry Osborn mutate into actual goblin-creatures. Big deal. Their personalities and motives still fall almost directly in line with the originals, and ditto for Electro. Being a cure for cancer merged with a college student doesn't radically change Venom's powers, purposes or personality, nor does it really cause his interactions with Spider-Man to be that much different from his 616 counterpart (at least initially), and I could care less about Carnage, but for Bendis' blink-and-you-miss-them plots and use of Carnage to kill off Gwen Stacy (keeping Gwen alive, now that would have been nerve!). I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

So far as I've seen, these characters still go about fulfilling pretty much the same roles or purposes that the originals had, with the same personalities and only minor cosmetic changes or differences in dates and origins for most, but someone seems to have confused Wade Wilson's role with Donald Pierce's, or maybe Trevor Fitzroy's.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking all the characters I mentioned. Tell me what in 616 Vision makes him a candidate to basically be a Herald for Ultimate Galactus(Gah-Lak-Tus)? Tell me when Mr. Sinister was just a thug with a gun foretelling Apocalypse? When was Harry the Hobgoblin. I don't care if the character Harry is still essentially the same, I was talking about the Hobgoblin who is one of my favorite Spidey villains in the 616 universe. To have his own uniqueness of character completely disregarded in the Ultiverse does not sit well with me. Electro, meh. He's always been a weak character. And to totally disregard Carnage because you could care less isn't really helping your argument. Kraven is completely different. They turned him into a joke. A validly fearsome character turned into a joke.

Character are difficult to think up. Characters with some depth are even harder, and truly unique characters are truly rare. I'm not going to assume that everyone is going to think of Deadpool as being really unique, but superheroes and super-powered mercenaries are a dime a dozen, and can tend to blend together. What makes Deadpool stick out, essentially, has been discarded, and without his uniquely maniacal humour, internal torture and blatant disregard for the fourth wall, in short, his humanity, there's nothing left but a generic hired baddy in a tight-fitting bodystocking.

Deadpool and unique do not belong in the same sentance initially. Deadpool the design is a poorly disguised rip-off of DC's Deathstroke the Terminator. Similar costume, similar name, similar style of fighting(initially). But he was made unique by future development.

Thing is, taking the Deadpool and dropping him in the Ultimates' world would have been perfect (and fitted in just dandily with the bizarre nature of most of his adventures). The Ultimate big guns, mutant or not (but mostly mutant) seriously need him, just to point out the absurdities of their own over-inflated sense of victimhood and self-importance, if for no other reason.

Instead, we get generic-mutant-hater-of-the-week, and in a Spider-Man/X-Men crossover, no less.

See, the Ultiverse has this thing about not crossing over with the 616 universe, ever. They are still high up on that notion. So just dropping Deadpool into the universe was a no-no from higher levels than Bendis.


What it all really boils down to, it seems, is you don't want to wait for a character to develop. You expect that Deadpool will just pop in from no where and be the exact same Deadpool that he was in the 616 universe. You want yellow speech bubbles right off the get go. Jeez, let Ultimate Loki at him for a bit. Let him talk

 

Nothing, really. That's just another of those things in the UU that doesn't really make a heck of a lot of sense. I mean, we've already got Silver Surfer/s, so why does Galactus need another herald? Why is the Vision female in configuration? Is she meant to seem less threatening to the denizens of the Earth that way? Is being "non-threatening" going to help the Earthlings realize the seriousness of the threat in the slightest, considering how "non-threatening" Galactus is?

I get the feeling that the reason for Ultimate Vision's appearance is either artist eye-candy, or the pursuit of change for its own sake, divorced from point or purpose, just like Ultimate Galactus's name, which is just Lu-Di-Crous.

Red eyes? Check. Red thingy on forehead? Check. Connection to Apocalypse? Check. Obsessive relationship with the X-Men? Check.

He wasn't, of course, but he was the Green Goblin for a time, so there's some precedent there.

Well, I've never really had strong feelings for the character one way or the other, but I can sympathize with you, considering that I feel they similarly ripped off Deadpool, although not quite to the same extent.

I'm totally disregarding Carnage because his Ultimate incarnation doesn't seem a heck of a lot different. He's still a mindless red killing machine that looks like "a hemophilliac's attempt at a scab", and the absence of Cletus Cassidy is something that I think most wouldn't notice, as unlike Eddie Brock, he's always been more of an accessory to the symbiote than vice-versa.

I agree.

Which is why I keep referring to the current Kelly/Simone/Niciesza Deadpool.

"High-Up" sounds about right.

Not quite, but it ought to be fairly plain what the Deadpool archetype is now, no matter what his first appearance was like.

But does Ultimate Loki realize that he's a character in a (oftentimes overwrought) comic-book? I doubt it, considering that Millar's sense of self is probably a little too fragile to go with something like that.

 

The way I see it, they don?t want to make the Ultimate universe 100% exactly the same as 616. They?re going to try different things ? sometimes, even things that work in 616. Sometimes the changes work, sometimes they don?t. In the 616 universe, a romance between Peter and Kitty would be unthinkable, but in the Ultimate universe it makes perfect sense ? and Mary Jane has a valid rival for Peter?s affections, one who isn?t going anywhere any time soon. Doom as being fully metal, with Satanic goat legs is another working idea, and Mark Millar?s take on the Fantastic Four and their villains lately has blown away the 616 versions in my opinion.

Did Bendis make a mistake with Deadpool? Maybe. I prefer 616 Deadpool; I don?t care much for Ultimate Deadpool. It?s disappointing for me. But neither am I going to flame the man for trying something a little different. He tried something and it didn?t work. Maybe it was laziness on his part; maybe he had editors telling him to tone down the smart-mouth, I don?t know.

Now, if Morbius turns out to be a smiling, wise-cracking Vampire?

 

I don't understand why everyone is chalking Deadpool up as a loss, it was only his first appearance in the Ultimate Universe so maybe just maybe the writter plans on developing him further.

Give it time people, maybe Bendis has plans of showing how Deadpool became the insane and crazy killer that we all love in 616, and to be honest I would personally rather see him gradually progress into that rather than just have him appear like that already.