Un question....

"creates at least the appearance of division within that forum"

And heaven forbid that anyone should wander into TPM and *gasp, shock, horror* see that there are people who liked the film and people who didn't. After reading a few threads, you get the exact same impression. I doubt anyone who spends any time in that forum could mistakenly believe there is total harmony and agreement about the movie. Big whoop if it takes them 2 seconds rather than 20 seconds to figure it out.

They are so worried that those threads are creating a division within the TPM forum. There is division in every forum. There are both people who like and hate AOTC in that forum. There are people who like and hate the the SE's in that forum. Hell, there are people who like and hate individual films from the OT in that forum. Thats a lot of divisions within one board, but no one seems concerned. The only difference in TPM is that there are threads for them. Since division exists in those boards without Sanctuaries, those threads are hardly creating it in TPM.

And since so many people have argued that one-sided discussions are not good discussions, then I suppose a lack of division in a forum would hurt it, wouldn't it?


I also want to point out that SW Community has fan clubs. EU Community is practically nothing but Fan Clubs and has a Haters Community. Yet no one is complaining that those threads are hurting other forums or the JC as a whole. No one is complaining that it gives the appearance of division within those forums, or that they are encouraging people to misbehave. So why are some people choosing to focus on removing them from TPM?

And since so many seem to be only focusing on the behavior in the Sanc, it definitely looks to me like that is the real target here.

 

For me, it is about putting an end to the negative basher/gusher mentality so we can move on to more healthy discussion accross the board.

While I have more of a problem with a thread that strives to be as negative as they possibly can rather than positive, the real issue is the inability for differing opinions to co exist.

The B/G threads were good at the time because things were just way too out of hand back then. That said, they are merely keeping the underlying issues that separate us as fans in a perpetual holding pattern, rather than actually getting us past these differences.

Now, with proper moderation, and anticipation that has waned since 1999, I think it's time to take the training wheels off the TPM forum.

The AOTC forum seems to be doing fine without them.

 

Go-Mer I think you jsut missed Gay-LenKenobi whole point. If you end both DF threads and the BS thread you will then have to close the ESB fan club, Luke fan club, the A/P Defenders thread, Heck you will have to end the thread about the Handmaidens and so on.

What is wrong with any of those threads. What is so wrong with a group of people going in to a thread to talk about just Luke? Or a group of people going into a thread to talk about why they like the Love Story form AOTC? Or a thread where someone can go to talk with other about the things they like about AOTC? And so on the answer is nothing is wrong with that. At times that what I want to do. At times I want to talk with people who jsut like the Love Story in AOTC so I go to the Defenders of the A&P Love Story

And so on. I can't do that in a thread were both people who liked it and did not like it post. But when I do want to there is a thread for it in the AOTC thread called the Love Story thread. I can go there and talk with people who did like the Love story and with those who did not.

Same thing with the DF threads and BS thread.

Here's another where people who like jsut the Handmaidns can come and take about them:
The Royal Handmaiden Society

Yup The Royal Handmaiden Society. What should we close this thread down to? They only want to talk about the handmaidens. Once you get ready of the DF threads and the BS thread what will stop those who want those three threads closed form going after the others that I just posted links to? Not much.

 

There is nothing wrong with those other threads you mention. They are threads relating to a specific topic, not the affiliation of "fans". We can close just the gusher and basher threads without closing those others.

To me the difference is those other threads aren't contributing to a Basher/Gusher "war" that should have been over years ago.

 

It seems to me that the sanctuaries have done more to bring the Gushers and Bashers together then split them apart. There aren't very many other places where the two groups can meet together and discuss the movie peacefully. If these two threads were taken away, I have a feeling that it would only worsen the relations between the two groups.

 

The DF threads and BS thread aren't ether. They are places someone can go when they want to just talk with others who liked the PT or who did not like the PT. There is nothing wrong with that.

A thread with the name The Jedi(put name here because I can not come up with one)will have people who like and do not like the PT coming in it. Here's were the problem comes in. I want to talk with some of those people who seem to like AOTC well I can't really do it in that thread because it would be off topic.

So we would go to the DF AOTC thread. Then we can talk about all the things we liked about it. But with out that thread were can I go to do that?

What do I have to go off site to do that. I don't want to go off site to do that. The two people I would want to talk with do not post at that other site.

 

I do not deny that both of these threads have helped the overwhelming strife in the TPM forum when they first came about. But they were only a band aide. It didn't fix the real problem.

If dissent is allowed in the Basher's sanctuary and the TPM defence force threads, then there isn't really a need for either of them is there?

If this is about having a "social" thread, then it should be in community.

I think that threads in the film forums should be about the topics, not the affiliations of "fans".

It's high time we grew as an online community.

 

So then, what's the "real problem"?

 

Good point, ani...I have enjoyed some time in the Defenders thread myself. But those threads are in the SW Community forum, not a movie forum.

 

It's high time we grew as an online community.

That's what I think these threads are doing. The gushers and bashers obviously make a lot of good friends with each other with those threads, and because of the debates that are allowed to happen between the groups, they also make friends with the other group. Creating all of these bonds definitely helps the forum grow as a community and reduces flaming and trolling.

If the threads were taken away, there would still be gushers and bashers, but without the bonds between them, they wouldn't have any reason not to flame the other side.

 

They should learn to not flame other people for having different opinions.

That's the real problem.

 

If there's a way to keep people from disliking those with different opinions, then I'm all for doing it. But's it's impossible to do. You can only try to limit the amount of people that will hate others for their opinions.

Look in the JC's senate. There's no Iraq appreciation club, yet there are people who hate and flame those who are for our war with Iraq. And vice versa. And I can show the same thing for about any other opinion in the world.

 

Who's "they"? Any one who frequents one or the other of those threads? All of them?

 

Those who flame people they disagree with. The TOS has provisions for them, that's how they will learn.

 

And the flamers have the book thrown at then whenever they do pop up. On both sides. Plus I've never seen any one in either place encourage that behavior.

 

That's why I say those threads are no longer needed.

 

When people hold no opinion of the PT at all, up or down, that's when they won't be needed.

 

Are you telling me that we cannot discuss the political machinations of Palpatine (for example), without being divided into two separate threads one pro and one con?

What purpose do the basher and gusher threads serve if not to perpetuate these overgeneralizing labels? If they exist as a fan community, then perhaps they should be in community.

The AOTC forum seems to be doing fine without partisan camp threads, why should the TPM forum be any different?

 

Here's a simple question I'd like answered.


Why shouldn't the Basher/Defense Force social threads be taken out of the TPM forum and put with all the other social threads in Star Wars Community?

 

Because they aren't social threads like the ones in SWC. Not much chatting of a social nature goes on in there. Sometimes the discussion might stray into other subjects (the last off-topic discussion in the BS was about time paradoxes, for example), but it does get back to the purpose of the thread. They may seem purely social threads because people feel comfortable in that atmosphere, whichever it is.

 

The purpose of the thread being... to perpetuate the gusher/basher mentality?

I don't think TFN should support the concept of "gushers" and "bashers". We should all be seen as unique individuals as a matter of principal.

There shouldn't be exclusive affilliation camps, at least not in the film forums.

 

Two threads can't perpetuate a mentality that's already in place in a person's mind when they show up in one of them. You make it sound as if as soon as somone lays their cursor on a link to one or the other that they're suddenly seized by a bashing or gushing compulsion they've never had before.

 

What Daughter said. It doesn't matter whether the threads are there or not, there will always be bashers and gushers. The only thing we can do is try to create peace between the two and I think that the sanctuaries are doing a good job of that.

 

The last two posts hit it on the nail. They have helped out mroe then anything. And if and when someone did or does flame Quix and Steve are there to take care of it. They are there to take care of it on both sides.

But both threads are bringing people together. They don't do much of what Go-Mer has said as far as I have seen.

Gushers and Basher will always be here. To think that they will just up and go away if these threads go is kind of silly. They won't go. We had gushers and basher before both threads. We will have them long after. You can not stop people form having any opinion.

 

That's why I think basher, gusher, and sanctuary threads should be disallowed across the board in all movie forums. I don't care if your opinion is 'strongly disliked' or 'strongly liked', just post about it in a responsible manner that is within the TOS and doesn't exclude an opinion based on the title alone. All threads should be inviting in terms of opinion.