Un question....

Discussion in 'Communications' started by RidingMyCarousel, Apr 20, 2003.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I am only against exclusive threads where certain members are not allowed to post.

    Again, the B/G threads kept things under control in TPM forum during the great backlash war of 1999, but now I think we can return to normal moderation of topic related threads, and no longer need prtisan camp threads.

    We can then put these over generalizing labels behind us.

    We should treat each other as fellow fans with different opinions, not as members of two warring factions.

    And again the AOTC forum seems to be doing just fine without them, so I don't see why they are important to have in TPM forum.

    If they function as social threads, they should be put in community with the other social threads, so that the TPM forum can be about the movie, not the "polarized" fanbase.
  2. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    If they function as social threads, they should be put in community with the other social threads, so that the TPM forum can be about the movie, not the "polarized" fanbase.

    By definition, EVERY thread is a social thread. When two or more people start discussing a particular topic, social discourse takes place. So really, we're talking semantics.

    In my opinion, these threads are fine where they are. That there is a division in the fan base regarding the films only points to one possible and logical source - the films themselves. Where better to have social discourse of the merits (or lack thereof) of said films than in the film forums?

    As to differing opinions, they are always going to be around. While we all may differ in our opinions as to the relative merits of the new trilogy, we are almost uninimously united by our love for the OT. Wherever you stand, these discussions are mainly focused on the films themselves, and the threads pertaining to our own likes and dislikes of those films should remain where they are.

    My $.02

    Best,

    Tadji
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    The threads in the film forums should be about topics relating to the films, not fan affiliations.

    I am actually very for differing opinions on a topic, in a thread about that topic.

    Not two separate discussions, one only positive and one only negative happening in two threads where differing opinions never meet.
  4. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    By definition, EVERY thread is a social thread.

    Not true in the movie forums. In 3SA, we have only one.
  5. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    Not true in the movie forums. In 3SA, we have only one.

    Darth,

    I wasn't speaking about definitions related to TFN. I was talking about a general "social" concept, as a means of stating why I think the discussions of the films and the likes and dislikes was all have should remain where they are.
  6. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I think they belong in threads for each topic, where people with any opinion about it can discuss the matter.
  7. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I understand totally what you meant. But when you use the word 'social' around here, it takes on a very specific meaning.
  8. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    I understand totally what you meant. But when you use the word 'social' around here, it takes on a very specific meaning.

    Fair enough. I just hope that the position I'm taking with my post is clear.
  9. obi_wan_kanathan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 4
    What's the big deal with having two threads instead of one? The only reason that you've given is because they don't allow people from the other side to talk about the movie, but that's not true. As long as you aren't going to troll the thread, you're allowed to post in there even if your opinion isn't the popular one.
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    In the Bahser's sanctuary, being positive is considered "trolling".

    If dissent is allowed in both the basher and gusher social threads, then what's the point of keeping them separate?

    I say that if we aren't going to move both of them to communications, they should be merged into one single non partisan social thread.
  11. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I think the "exclusionary" premise has been debunked sufficiently. Anyone who cares to read the threads will see what I and others have noted - only people with a history of trolling and flaming were barred from discussion. That's an issue of netizenry, not opinion.

    My concern about moving them to SWC is the corresponding drop-off in traffic. I contrast the posting enjoyed by the DF threads from the CT forum and TPM forum when the threads were in with the movies they were discussing versus the posting habits when they were in different forums. The drop off was vertical - the TPMDF in particular was a ghost-town compared to when it was in the TPM forum, and wasn't revived until it came back to the TPM forum, as the regulars will tell you. The only CT "Defense Force" that is currently enjoying any traffic in SWC is the TESB Fan Club (which was once the TESBDF), the ROTJDF and ANHDF were merged into the OTDF under orders of Darth_Attorney, and they haven't seen the front page since. While the AOTCDF stays consistently on page 1 or 2, I believe it would enjoy more traffic if it were in the forum to which it is tied. That is simply my opinion, and I will defer to YodaJeff on how the AOTC forum is structured - just as I would hope he would defer to me on the TPM forum.

    There are thousands of posts in the TPMDF and Sanctuary - nearly 30,000 in their combined histories. They enjoyed their popularity by being part of the forum for which they were germane. They involved and revolved around TPM, which is why I wanted them to stay when I took over, and which is why I want them to stay there. There have been excellent discussions in both, and if history has any importance in this discussion, in relocating them we would likely be condemning these lively discussions to a dusty death.

    EDIT:

    In the Bahser's sanctuary, being positive is considered "trolling".

    Nonsense. Being positive is not trolling. Telling people that they've killed their inner child or that they are intolerant of other people is trolling.
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well can I come into the thread if I don't do that?
  13. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Well can I come into the thread if I don't do that?

    No, Go-Mer. We tried that in the past on more than one occasion, and you fell back into your old posting habits of discussing the posters and not the films. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    EDIT: Added the line I was referencing.
  14. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    So now we are at a point where I can't post there even if it isn't "trolling"?

    So it is an exclusive club.

    I don't think either thread belongs in the film forums. They only serve to maintain the gusher basher mentality.

    If the AOTC forum doesn't need them, then the TPM forum doesn't either. If dissent is allowed in both threads, then it defeats the purpose of having two social threads.

    They should be moved to community or merged into one thread where everyone is allowed.
  15. Nebucchad Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 3
    Umm, banning from threads sounds silly.

    If one follows the TOS, he/she should be able to post anywhere, including these threads.
  16. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    That's my thought on it too obviously.
  17. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    So now we are at a point where I can't post there even if it isn't "trolling"?

    Your behavior made it necessary. Because of the things you posted about your fellow TF.N members, you were disinvited from that thread. Because of your persistence in posting in a particular manner with particular reference to qualities of your fellow TF.N members, you were banned.

    So it is an exclusive club.

    Much in the same manner that TF.N is an exclusive club for people who do not spam, flame, flame-bait, or troll. You and strilo both enjoy many aspects of the films; the difference is that he has demonstrated a history of sharing his opinion with respect for others' viewpoints.

    I don't think either thread belongs in the film forums.

    Opinion noted, but I respectfully disagree.

    EDIT:

    Umm, banning from threads sounds silly.


    I disagree - in my experience, I have met many posters who are perfectly fine, respectable people who simply lose all concept of netizenry when certain topics are discussed. It makes perfect sense to me to invite them to the conversations in which they can respect the TOS and disinvite them from those in which they cannot.
  18. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    How can I get a history like that if I am not allowed to participate?

    But my inclusion is only a side issue.

    The real issue is why do we need both a basher and gusher thread if they do not exclude dissent? Why not merge them into one single social thread?
  19. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    How can I get a history like that if I am not allowed to participate?

    But my inclusion is only a side issue.


    Your posting habits go back for four years. Your banishment from the Sanctuary goes back a few months. You demonstrated your behavior for a long, long time before the decision was made.

    The real issue is why do we need both a basher and gusher thread if they do not exclude dissent? Why not merge them into one single social thread.

    Because that's the purpose of the rest of the forum, and the dedicated social thread. Further, they serve very different purposes, Go-Mer, and ones which you are attempting to equivocate.

  20. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Can you find some examples of me trolling in the BS?

    If I have been able to keep from trolling in the rest of the forum since the last time I got in trouble, then isn't it possible I could learn to post in the BS without "trolling"?

    Can't a guy change?
  21. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Can you find some examples of me trolling in the BS?

    I would be happy to provide examples of your posts that trolled throughout the TPM forum. Every post that suggests that "the inner child of the basher is dead", the posts where you declare your fellow posters who are not quite so taken with the Jar Jar Binks character to be intolerant of those who are different from them, or when you suggest that they are simply afraid of their own natures, etc. Four successive moderators have told you that your posting presents a problem.

    If I have been able to keep from trolling in the rest of the forum since the last time I got in trouble, then isn't it possible I could learn to post in the BS without "trolling"?

    Can't a guy change?


    [South Park BLU Saddam]Hey! Look! I'm changing![/South Park BLU Saddam]

    You've been banned by four successive moderators in that forum over the course of the past two years, all for the same reasons. I see evidence elsewhere that while you may say you are changing, your opinions haven't. You been banned for increasingly long periods of time, only to fall back into the same behavior. You've attempted to start Comms drama on several occasions since I was promoted. While it is *possible* you could be sincere now, history has dictated otherwise.
  22. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Go-Mer this is coming form someone who is not a mod. I have not been here as long as you. But I have seen you in the time I have been here do what Quix said yo do in his last post.
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Okay, so we have debunked the idea that people can post there as long as they don't troll.

    So it's back to the real issue, why do we need both social threads if dissent is allowed in each one?

    Just as an aside, I don't see why it is considered trolling to say the people who hate Jar-Jar are intolerant of him, and I don't understand why discussing the possibility that some people have grown out of this saga is considered trolling. We are talking about a fanbase that largely grew up with the classic trilogy as kids, and who then took in the prequels so far as adults.

    Seems like a reasonable discussion to me.

    If I knew ahead of time that posting such opinions constituted "trolling" then I wouldn't have done it.
  24. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Because the fan base is much more divided on TPM than any other Star Wars film. The only other one that comes close is ROTJ but it does not have it's own forum, or it might see some pretty hardcore bashing as well. The fanbase is about equally split on TPM. Because of this and because of the history of the TPM forum, decisions made by the Mods there over the past four years, both threads were and are a part of the culture of the TPM forum. Remember, each forum here has it's own personality and as such, each forum has it's own unique challenges when moderating, am I right Quix and Steve? These two threads are the best solution I have seen to help keep things stable and amiable in the forum for the film the fanbase is MOST divided on.

  25. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    So it's back to the real issue, why do we need both social threads if dissent is allowed in each one?

    We don't *need* any thread here at TF.N. What we have are topics that interest people. What we've found is that human nature causes folks to bond with others of a like mentality, which is why we have the TPMDF, AOTCDF, Basher's Sanctuary, Dark Lords of the JCC, Lightsiders, Royal Handmaiden Society, Blue Yoda Society, etc. They post in those threads because of common background and common interest. When did that become a no-no?

    The discussions are germane to the film, they are constructive, and the follow the TOS. Where is the issue?

    EDIT: Clarity

    And yes, strilo, the forums are different, much in the same way that the only common theme of 3SA, 3NS, AOTC, TPM, and SWC is that all must adhere to the TOS. Aside from that, they are as different in tone, content, and style as Leonardo da Vinci and Stephen King.
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