Un question....

Discussion in 'Communications' started by RidingMyCarousel, Apr 20, 2003.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well it's time to bridge the division Oakessteve.
  2. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    So why is it that only the TPM affiliation threads end up in the film forum?

    Can't they go in community with the rest of those "social" threads?
  3. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Well it's time to bridge the division Oakessteve.

    (a) Oakes isn't here, and
    (b) the division was being fixed quite nicely, except for every few months when someone would come along and try to tear it asunder by reopening old wounds and making mountains from molehills.

    EDIT:

    So why is it that only the TPM affiliation threads end up in the film forum?

    Because of the SWC drop-off. cbjedi pulled the TPMDF back from the abyss, and the forum improved as a result. The Basher's Sanctuary was never moved, since it was given the distinction of being the longest-running, on-topic discussion in the forum. Still is, too.

    Can't they go in community with the rest of those "social" threads?

    The AOTCDF, Handmaiden Society, and TESB Fan Club are in SWC. The Dark Lords, BYS, and Lightsiders are in JC Community. I would rather not stifle and condemn to death compelling discussions for the simple sake of conformity, especially since there is precedent for keeping them where they are. That's overreacting, much like the entire premise of this thread.
  4. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I meant to say Strilo. Sorry about that.

    The whole basher gusher mentality is not a mole hill.

    It has always been a nagetive division, and I don't think it should be encouraged. At least not in the film forums.

    Would you be opposed to relocating them to where all the other social threads are? If so, what is the reasoning?
  5. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    The whole "basher/gusher" mentality isn't an issue for the majority of the posters in the forum. The only folks who seem to care about the labels are the more extreme posters, who are typically the ones who tend to post these kinds of topics. Many of the folks in the TPM forum are quite content to call themselves fans, and then simply post in the thread that suits their opinion at the moment. I'd wager that most of the folks here are in the "mushy middle" of fandom, with parts they like and parts they don't, with an opinion that swings a little one way or the other, depending on their mood.

    In comparison to what the forum was like, it *is* a molehill.

    Regarding why I don't want to move the threads, I'll simply repost what I wrote above:

    My concern about moving them to SWC is the corresponding drop-off in traffic. I contrast the posting enjoyed by the DF threads from the CT forum and TPM forum when the threads were in with the movies they were discussing versus the posting habits when they were in different forums. The drop off was vertical - the TPMDF in particular was a ghost-town compared to when it was in the TPM forum, and wasn't revived until it came back to the TPM forum, as the regulars will tell you. The only CT "Defense Force" that is currently enjoying any traffic in SWC is the TESB Fan Club (which was once the TESBDF), the ROTJDF and ANHDF were merged into the OTDF under orders of Darth_Attorney, and they haven't seen the front page since. While the AOTCDF stays consistently on page 1 or 2, I believe it would enjoy more traffic if it were in the forum to which it is tied. That is simply my opinion, and I will defer to YodaJeff on how the AOTC forum is structured - just as I would hope he would defer to me on the TPM forum.

    There are thousands of posts in the TPMDF and Sanctuary - nearly 30,000 in their combined histories. They enjoyed their popularity by being part of the forum for which they were germane. They involved and revolved around TPM, which is why I wanted them to stay when I took over, and which is why I want them to stay there. There have been excellent discussions in both, and if history has any importance in this discussion, in relocating them we would likely be condemning these lively discussions to a dusty death.
  6. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Well it's time to bridge the division [Strilo]

    Well you keep dreaming big dreams and that's totally fine. But I will be more pragmatic and stay closer to the reality of the situation. Both approaches are necessary for our culture to keep going like it is. The division is caused by the fanbase. The fanbase is not changing. People's opinions are set. And new people form opinions on TPM all the time. As such, expecting the rift to disappear like magic when we close or move two threads is unreasonable. They are not the cause nor do they contribute to the divisive opinions of TPM. ONLY TPM does that. So we need to allow for that as best we can. Are the DF and Sanctuary the optimal solution? Probably not, but it's the best thing we've come up with. It is CERTAINLY better than removing them.

  7. TadjiStation Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2001
    star 4
    It has always been a nagetive division, and I don't think it should be encouraged. At least not in the film forums.

    Go-Mer, it's logical to say that the films created this division in the first place. Therefore it's logical to say that discussions of whatever nature concerning the films stays there.

    Would you be opposed to relocating them to where all the other social threads are? If so, what is the reasoning?

    Would someone care to clarify the difference between a "social" thread and any other type of thread for me, please? I'm at a bit of a loss. Many thanks! :)

    Tadji.
  8. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    So then why don't the other films need it? Are you telling me everyone agrees across the board about the other films in the saga?

    I don't expect people to change, I just don't think we need to keep this war going just because things have died down in the time since it was bad.

    I say that has more to do with people getting over it than having the two separate social threads.

    All they do is keep both sides of this division separated. If they don't need to be separated then there is no need for the threads anymore is there?

    I don't see why we can't talk about TPM in threads made for each topic like all the other film forums manage to do.

    Having threads about fan affiliations only perpetuates this "us and them" mentality.

    What ever happened to keeping threads about the topics, and not the posters?

    Also, for people like me who get excluded from such threads, how can we discuss the film?

    In the outsider threads that most people don't patronnize?
  9. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    The BS thread and DF threads are not the cuase for any of the wars. They are all not the reason G/B wars happen.
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    They are the reason they are kept alive.
  11. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    They are the reason they are kept alive.

    No that's not true. That not true at all. Those threads don't keep the G/B was alive. That's like saying The Matrix is the cuase for all shoting deaths.

    It's a small a very small group of people that keep the G/B war going.
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If it isn't keeping the basher/gusher war alive, then why is it named: "The Basher's Sanctuary"?

    If there are only a few people left who actually are keeping it alive, then getting rid of those two threads shouldn't be a problem right?
  13. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    If it isn't keeping the basher/gusher war alive, then why is it named: "The Basher's Sanctuary"?

    Well, technically it's the Sanctuary Strikes Back. It's called that because that's what it's been historically called, not because it's seeking to further a dwindling conflict. The name means something quite different than it did when the first Sanctuary started. In fact, most of the folks now simply call it "the Sanctuary."

    If there are only a few people left who actually are keeping it alive, then getting rid of those two threads shouldn't be a problem right?

    That's a rather large leap in logic - you're missing quite a few intermediary steps. One of which is acknowledging that they have very different, germane, and long-standing discussions, as has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread and others. There is no point to "getting rid of these two threads" unless your only purpose is "getting rid of these two threads", which does a disservice to the folks who have chosen to post in them and foster excellent discussion. But again, that's been stated before, too.
  14. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Why can't their "germane" discussion take place in threads about those topics?

    You know, where someone like myself could participate?
  15. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I also do not recall Go-Mer ever being asked not to post in the TPMDF thread. Once again I see generalizations being made about "basher/gusher" threads that really pertain pretty much to the Sanctuary. So is this again just an attempt to get rid of the Sanctuary because it is disagreed with by some and if that means taking the DF with it then so be it?

  16. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well, I was asked to leave.

    And, no this is not about "punishing" people I disagree with, it is about being able to discuss topics with them, and also to put an end to this ridiculous B/G war that should have been over years ago, once and for all.

    TFN film forums shouldn't be about cliques. Not in the film forums. The threads should be about the films, not fan affiliations.

    Those threads belong in community.
  17. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Why can't their "germane" discussion take place in threads about those topics?

    It does - this thread just happens to be popular, and tends to be rather free-form in its relevancy. A lot of issues are covered in the discussion; sometimes issues are tangentially explored and then conversation returns to the overarching issue. It would be unwieldy to try to start a new topic for each main and subtopic, and unrealistic to expect it to be coherent or comprehensible. The thread is more complex than you're making it out to be.

    You know, where someone like myself could participate?

    Oh, you mean like the rest of the forum?

    EDIT: Markup
  18. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Closeing those two threads will not end the G/B war Go-Mer I bet they were going on before them. Heck they will still go on even if they are closed.

  19. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Well a lot of issues are being talked about in that "popular" thread, that I am not allowed to paticipate in. The rest of the TPM film forum suffers because of it.

    The B/G war may continue without those threads, but at leats TFN will have stopped encouraging it.
  20. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    And, no this is not about "punishing" people I disagree with, it is about being able to discuss topics with them, and also to put an end to this ridiculous B/S war that should have been over years ago, once and for all.

    You are able to discuss topics with them. That's what the rest of the forum is for. The only one who is to blame for cutting you off from the conversation is yourself and the choices you made. You aren't the victim here, Go-Mer.

    TFN film forums shouldn't be about cliques. Not in the film forums. The threads should be about the films, not fan affiliations.

    And if you read the Sanctuary, you will see that the thread is about the film. In fact, the TPMDF thread is shockingly enough also about the film - there is a discussion of favorite scenes along with screen caps.

    Those threads belong in community.

    We've given several arguments as to why they are germane to the TPM forum and belong there. Care to offer an explanation why they don't, in light of them being germane, on-topic, and directly relevant? Exactly how are they "related to the SW saga, but not applicable to any particular film"? What exactly is Miscellaneous about them?
  21. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If I am such a bad seed, then why not just ban me from the entire forum?

    Bans end after a period of time, why is this thread any different?
  22. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Who asked you to leave the DF and when was it done? Because I've been involved with it for almost 2 years now and I've no knowledge of you ever being asked not to post there, Go-Mer.

  23. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It might have been when it was the gusher's sanctuary. It was about the same time I was banned from the BS.
  24. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    Well a lot of issues are being talked about in that "popular" thread, that I am not allowed to paticipate in.

    For which you have no one to blame but yourself.

    The rest of the TPM film forum suffers because of it.

    PPOR.

    The B/G war may continue without those threads, but at leats TFN will have stopped encouraging it.

    TF.N doesn't encourage this "war", which according to *many* folks stopped a while ago. What is going on is reparations. The only "war" we see are a few folks who didn't hear about the armistace and insist on starting new skirmishes.
  25. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    PPOR?

    If the topics that pertain to TPM are taking place inside these two exclusive threads, then they aren't happening in the rest of the forum where I can participate.

    By having an official Basher and Gusher thread, TFN is encouraging it.
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