Uncanny Valley Theory and the Complaints of the SE and PT Effects

I came across a theory that I feel explains the reasoning behind many of our petty gripes concerning the SE and PT effects on these boards. Granted another reason is to have something to discuss but here is the theory.


The Uncanny Valley is a principle of robotics concerning the emotional response of humans to robots and other non-human entities. It was theorized by Japanese roboticist Masahiro Mori in 1970. The principle states that as a robot is made more humanlike in its appearance and motion, the emotional response from a human being to robot will become increasingly positive and empathic, until a point is reached at which the response suddenly becomes strongly repulsive; as the appearance and motion are made to be indistinguishable to that of human being, the emotional response becomes positive once more and approaches human-human empathy levels

This gap of repulsive response aroused by a robot with appearance and motion between a "barely-human" and "fully human" entity is called the Uncanny Valley. The name harkens to the notion that a robot which is "almost human" will seem overly "strange" to a human being and thus will fail to evoke the requisite empathetic response required for productive human-robot interaction.

The phenomenon can be explained by the notion that if an entity is sufficiently non-humanlike, then the humanlike characteristics will tend to stand out and be noticed easily, generating empathy. On the other hand, if the entity is "almost human", then the non-human characteristics will be the ones that stand out, leading to a feeling of "strangeness" in the human viewer.

I feel this is one of the reasons we complain about the CG effects. The plain features of the bland 3PO allows his personality to stand out while at the same time when you see Obi-Wan hurled and throw by Dooku the human movements and likeness allows us to see the minute difference. It opens or eyes briefly to the fact it is not human. I know some complain about the SE because of the fact the originality of the episodes of thier youth is gone. This is just one factor I thought explained it.

 

I read about this on a general-fandom discussion board awhile back - not specifically related to Star Wars but to all fan fiction and to some extent fan films and the like. It was extended past robotics there to pretty much everything - when an entity is as it should be or is expected to be, then all is fine; if it's different enough to be clearly different but have some similar characteristics, those characteristics stand out; and then when it's close but not-quite-there, it turns people off.

An example given was that zombies are scary (well, kinda) while less humanlike monsters with the same threat level are less frightening.

This is why many robots and robotic components aren't meant to look exactly human; they can't get it close enough to avoid the feeling of wrongness, so by making them recognizably different, this is avoided (I guess until technology advances past the valley?) I didn't have a problem with most of the CGI effects in the prequel trilogy, but there were a few things in TPM that could have been better, and an attempt to do the films 5 years earlier would have been disaster.

 

Yeah it was explaining why movies like Final Fantasy and Polar Express might have failed at the box office. Fans thought the likeness was almost eerie. I think it's shows our spoiled nature, The closer we get to perfection the more we want. In the theory as a whole and NOT just related to movies I think it could relate to our self loathing natures but that is a WHOLE other subject. I saw a few XBox commercials and I'm curious to see how people react to some of these games.

 

i don't think it's us wanting to get closer to perfection... it seems we still have to recognize that it's artificial.

it's a nice theory you brought up, i have heard of it, too.

I feel this is one of the reasons we complain about the CG effects. The plain features of the bland 3PO allows his personality to stand out while at the same time when you see Obi-Wan hurled and throw by Dooku the human movements and likeness allows us to see the minute difference. It opens or eyes briefly to the fact it is not human. I know some complain about the SE because of the fact the originality of the episodes of thier youth is gone. This is just one factor I thought explained it.

maybe yes, maybe not. i think there's always this sense that it's not possible, that you are watching a movie about light sabres and planets that host whole cities and you're gonna have to suspend a certain amount of disbelief anyway.
and some effects just look not very good. but then even if the obi-wan hurling would looked good, more natural you'd still have to think that it's not possible.

 

Perhaps some of the difference, then, is in levels of special effects. There are those that look realistic, those that are slightly off, and those that are nowhere close. As long as we get the level that we're expecting, then it's easy to suspend disbelief, but when one level is expected and a lower one given, it tosses one out of the fantasy universe and makes one go "Hey, that looked fake."

 

Fascinating theory! Of course, one must remember that it is only a THEORY - but it IS fascinating nonetheless!

I think this theory actually forms the basis of Steven Spielberg's A.I.'s exploration of the various concepts of love and our responsibilites to Artificial Intelligence as we probe ever-increasing depths.

Does it also apply to the PT? Well, people's contentions are far more numerous than what this theory actually covers, but it could certainly explain a particular aspect, I suppose. I think ultimately, however, what many craved from the PT in this area and many others was tangibility - the use of real film instead of CCDs, the use of rubber puppets perhaps subtly enhanced by CG instead of all-digital characters, real flesh and blood human characters that they could relate to and desire the company of, etc - and not the more aloof and abstract ideas and approaches that Lucas ultimately used. I think the prequels are just too unfixable in the eyes of many and replete with more sins than a single theory can happily explain away. So be it.

 

Great Thread!

I haven't heard this theory before but it just shed a lot of light concerning the CGI revolution.

Really though I think this is just a distraction issue. CGI effects overall look great and I think people deep down recognise that. But I think what people fail to recognise is the amount of time and effort that goes into creating these images. Many of the 'old school' moviegoers really appreciated the effort it takes to create a model by hand then manipulate it with camera tricks and strings. Although this requires a skilled effects creator and people who understand the aspects of creating an illusion, I think the general audience can relate to it because it's something made with one's hands. That gives it kind of a 'blue collar' personality. And in the subconscious people tend to think of work in terms of 'blue collar'. Wheras 'white collar' or CGI effects, might be identified as part of the 'pencil pusher' genre.

Another aspect; particularly with Star Wars; is the lack of continuity in the visual medium. In some of the films the effects are all digital and in others there are an excessive amount of rubber masks, fur suits and clunky stormtrooper armor. In some instances characters are digital and then in others they are expressed with the use of a puppet. Some space and land battle choreography is complex and filled with a vast array of color and detail, while in others it consists of a a couple models on strings or a few dozen costumed extras trying to behave naturally.

Now this isn't to dismiss or belittle any of the efforts made by any of the cast and crew for any of the Star Wars films; but lets face it; if Return of the Jedi had been made with today's visual standard at the helm, the Ewoks would likely have been entirely digital as well as sleek, fast and cunning ....... worthy adversaries of war hardened Stormtroopers. That's just one example and perhaps the most glaring. And like I said, it was a fun ride back in 1983 but today; and especially with the prequels as a foundation; it just doesn't hold the same level of astonishment. This ultimately hurts the series. And while many would prefer that the OT remain unaltered, the new films in their visual craftsmanship simply reveal how dated the OT really is. In the end I think audiences simply want it one way or the other, just keep it the same. That's what suspends belief; when there's no visual distraction by something out of place.

To theorize an example, consider the film 'The Dark Crystal'. This is a beloved film in many circles and there are no outlandish effects or CGI since it hadn't been invented yet, but it still retains a lot of wonderment. Now if lets say someone was to create the same film today using artwork like that seen in 'Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within' I doubt anyone would question it's quality except that it's a sequel/remake to a classic puppet film. That reason alone would be the most likely source of criticism. Or if 'The Dark Crystal' was suddenly upgraded to have digital effects, many would be bitter because the hand crafted excellence would be dimminished by images alien to the film's personality.

This basic concept of personality is why so many criticised the Star Wars Special Editions. And I think if that personality was re-imagined to better complliment the prequel personality, then these hard nosed critics would be more inclined to accept the evolution of Lucas' space opera.

I think rather than accept that some are different than others or try and have a possitive hope for the future that all six films may be upgraded to have the same visual consistancy, folks bitter about the current state of things choose to bash the CGI effects in favor of the classic visual imagery.

What I find interesting, is that stand alone films that are made using mostly CGI effects are often well recieved, most likely because it sets it's own standard by being all by itself. But then consider how sequels sometimes get snubbed even though from a story perspective it has more than lived up to it's pred

 

Yeah, I heard some bashers over at starwars.com complain that they liked The Empire Strikes Back Yoda more than the Attack Of The Clones Yoda.

 

Very good point indeed! Maybe when they perfect CGI to become consistant.

I agree the gripes are numerous It is just that after doing reading on this theory I thought It applied to the GGI. I think you have an excellent point with AI. I was discussing this with someone yesterday and they brought up I,RobotThey were saying that they remember the more the robots starting acting on thier own actions and became more human they became less comfortable watching the character.

 

I think that is a good obsevation that CGI effects people are labeled. Also watching PT documenteries has given me a TON of respect for the effects people and it HAS caused me to critisize less

 

Interesting theory and responses--though I don't think this applies to me.

I can very easily tell what's real and what's CGI, and yet it doesn't stop me from finding it to be tangible and convincing. For example, the thing I love about the clonetroopers is that they neither feel like hideous digital blobs or random guys in tacky suits, but as if GL actually contracted genuine warriors many lightyears away.

Somebody mentioned the Xbox 360. I went to Electronics Boutique a few weeks ago and got the chance to preview a playable HDTV booth of it, specifically Call of Duty and some other game(It had you fighting a dinosaur in a ruins area). Needless to say, CoD completely blew me away--and yet, it still isn't the lifelike wonder or even the Pixar-like graphics that Sony promised for the Playstation 2, which after looking at Playstation 3 screens still hasn't been achieved.

(And I hate to go off-topic, but The Polar Express didn't bomb. In fact, it had some of the greatest legs witnessed of any wide-released film in the last few years, aka it didn't scare people away like Final Fantasy with the creepy character models. And despite that, I thought it was a very wonderful film.)

 

I looked it up and it did gross over 150 million. I guess it refers to critics.