CT Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, pretty laid back after seeing the droids, again.

The droids are in the films because they are based off of Tahei and Matashichi from "The Hidden Fortress". Two peasants who get caught up in Rokurota Makabe's journey to deliver Yuki Akizuki and her family fortune to a secret location. They were the narrative focus and the viewer's guide through this story. When Lucas expanded the story, he needed a way to keep the duo in their function and that is why they're in the PT and the ST. He's oblivious to them because he doesn't treat them as equals like the Skywalker men do. The same way Han treats them as tools and nothing more. Same with Rey and Poe treating BB-8 as an equal, while Finn and Han treat him as a droid.

You're assuming it's from when she was born. It could be glimpses of her at different points in Padme's life. And yes, Leia is strong in the Force. Same as Luke. Same as their father. All three were equally strong in the Force. The twins had to be as strong as their father, in order for the Jedi and the Sith to covet them and think that they can destroy the Sith.

He still took it upon himself regardless of it being a promise, because he was going to do it against the Council's wishes.

OBI-WAN: "Master Yoda, I gave Qui-gon my word. I will train Anakin. Without the approval of the Council if I must."

Leia's a captive of Vader and may or may not die, so that rules her out. Also, if you follow the full dialogue from the revelation scene, he did know.

OBI-WAN: "When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan."

Lucas even said as much in the story meetings with Kasdan, Marquand and Kazanjian.

Uh, once again, no. Vader doesn't know which is why he stomps on Obi-wan's cloak, thinking it is a trick of some sort. If he knew, he suddenly developed amnesia. When you watch ROTJ, you see Obi-wan and Yoda first and then Anakin fades in. This hints that they taught him, just as ROTS hints that Qui-gon has training for the both of them while in solitude.

YODA: "Master Kenobi, wait a moment. In your solitude on Tatooine, training I have for you."

OBI-WAN: "Training?"

YODA: "An old friend has learned the path to immortality. One who has returned from the netherworld of the Force, your old Master..."

OBI-WAN: "Qui-gon?"

YODA: "How to commune with him. I will teach you."

Artoo is also shown in AOTC climbing stairs without needing his booster rockets, like someone using crutches. As to the boosters themselves, he's knocked into the muck on Dagobah. Perhaps that ruined them. Perhaps he did use them to get in and out of the X-Wing.

Except that isn't a conflict. Remember, the Sith ruled the galaxy once before according to both Mace Windu and Darth Sidious.

MACE: "The oppression of the Sith will never return."

PALPATINE: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy, and we shall have peace."

The Republic did exist for a thousand generations until the Sith came along and took over. The Jedi took control back and had believed that the Sith were extinct.

 

So, Lucas introduced the inconsistency during the development of ROTJ, even though it did not appear in the film, as such it didn't affect the continuity and consistency of the OT in this regard. Either way it doesn't change the fact, that Lucas had little regard for such details, which was the point of my earlier post. The fact that Leia is a captive is a straw man argument, since Yoda clearly mentions the other in the context of TESB, which implies that at that point Lucas had not decided who the other would become. So, the dialogue clearly has only one interpretation, namely that Obi-Wan doesn't know who Yoda is talking about.

The latter argument is also unconvincing, as Obi-Wan specifically states the 1,000 generation period precedes the dark times, and existed during the rule of the Old Republic, and would not include another period of Sith rule. The fact that the EU has attempted make sense of this glaring inconsistency, by making it seem Obi-Wan was speaking of more ancient times, doesn't change the fact that in the movies there's just the Republic, which existed a 1,000 years according to AOTC, and a 1,000 generations according to ANH. No explanation for this is given in the films, which makes it either an inconsistency, or a plot hole. Take your pick.

 

Actually, it still wouldn't be an inconsistency. The line exists because Lucas needed a "Don't go, Luke!" reaction from the audience. In the second draft, the line was changed to, "Now, we must find another" and Obi-wan says that he is the last hope after this. In the third draft it is changed to, "No, we must search for another" after Obi-wan declares Luke to be the last hope. Finally, it is changed to what we now know it to be. Because he did this, he had to figure out how to address this in the next film.

Only if you're going by the original intention and not what it is now.

This has nothing to do with the EU. A generation can be as short as fifteen years or as long as five hundred. The EU is only going by Lucas who said this.


The Sith are the natural enemy of the Jedi. As George Lucas describes it, the Sith were once in control of the galaxy 1000 years in the past. Unfortunately, the Sith's hunger for conquest got the better of them-so many Sith Lords were vying for ultimate control that it led to infighting among their ranks. Such internecine struggles were exploited by the Jedi Knights of the era, and they were able to turn the tide and defeat the Sith.

As Ki-Adi-Mundi states in Episode I, the Sith have been extinct for a millenium; however, not all were wiped out. A surviving Sith Lord sought to rebuild the order, to retake the galaxy, and to take revenge. This Sith Lord realized the dangers of having too many in the order, so he kept his existence a secret. It would be a long time coming, but he carefully plotted revenge. There would be only two Sith Lords at a time, a master and an apprentice, working in secret, planting the seeds for their eventual rise.

By Episode III, the Sith are ready to reveal themselves. There's no more need for subterfuge, no more need for skulking in the shadows. Darth Sidious, the Sith mastermind, will make good on a 1000-year plot to finally avenge the fallen order, destroy the Jedi Knights, and retake command of the galaxy.

--Star Wars Insider, issue 78; page 60.

"The Sith are the archenemies of the Jedi and for a long time, they ruled the universe until the Jedi came along and got rid of them."

--George Lucas, Star Wars Insider, issue 78; page 80.


And we do not know that the Republic was completely destroyed during the war with the Sith. It could have easily been a galaxy largely controlled by the Sith, but the Republic still existed, only in a smaller corner of the universe. This the opposite of the Republic becoming the Empire and thus necessitating the creation of an Alliance to restore the Republic. In fact, it seems to be similar to his first draft of ANH, where the Empire took over.

Until the recent GREAT REBELLION, the JEDI BENDU were the most feared warriors in the universe. For one hundred thousand years, generations of JEDI perfected their art as the personal bodyguards of the emperor. They were the chief architects of the invincible IMPERIAL SPACE FORCE which expanded the EMPIRE across the galaxy, from the celestial equator to the farthest reaches of the GREAT RIFT. Now these legendary warriors are all but extinct. One by one they have been hunted down and destroyed as enemies of the NEW EMPIRE by a ferocious and sinister rival warrior sect, THE KNIGHTS OF SITH.

 

I appreciate the points you make but as others point out they all work very easily together. The one that does not work as "easily" is still hardly something all that difficult to get over with various statements in the movies.

In this case it's most likely it's not about Lucas not paying attention to details but to our knowledge of Lucas' timeline.

Lucas was quite specific in the PT that the current Republic was around for a thousand years.He is also aware of his one thousand generations from ANH.

AOTC Sio Bibble: It's unthinkable! There hasn't been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic!

So the full-scale war presumably was against the Sith a thousand years earlier. The Sith did "Rule the galaxy" .

Obviously as in the usual Lucas fashion and not unlike TCW in the OT he gives details without a full point by point breakdown.

The Jedi were obviously around before the formation of the then current version of the Republic which had been around a thousand years. There is no reason to believe that Lucas is saying the Jedi had only been around a thousand years. Yoda himself is almost 900 and the Sith had been gone for a thousand years as well.

IIRC in the EU there was the Old Republic then a reformation of the Republic. In the ST there is yet another version of the Republic.

The trick Lucas uses is that when characters talk in-universe they can know the full context of the lines that are being said that we as observers don't. So when someone says something to someone else they understand the actual meaning that we can't and that Lucas takes advantage of.

So obviously for whatever reason Obi-Wan (who knows about Leia) thinks of Luke as the last hope. Yoda disagrees and says there is another. Not that Obi-Wan does not know of her but for whatever reason doesn't believe that she would be able to do what Luke has done.

Maybe in Lucas' mind the explanation given in Rebels through his student Dave Filoni is the one whereby he believed Luke to be the Chosen One. If there is only one then it can't be Leia. Now we as observers know that Obi-Wan is wrong about Luke and that it's still Anakin.

Now the reality is that Leia only became the sister after TESB and Lucas inserted the line to create jeopardy for Luke. The sister was another character entirely who could have been the protagonist for a third trilogy etc etc.

The point being that Lucas gives himself a lot of room and leeway to change things. Sometimes we get enough details to link things more easily than others.

As I said though look at ANH and Obi-Wan talking about the Republic, Empire, Clone Wars etc.

Luke obviously knows some basic history. Obi-Wan isn't explaining every detail to tell we in the audience who don't know any of it. He's telling Luke a lot of what is already known generally so he doesn't have to tell him that. Luke knows about the Jedi, Clones, droids, Separatists etc

 

In TCW, which was of course overseen by Lucas, there are a couple references to an "Old Republic" that fell. Pre Viszla mentions it once, and I believe Kit Fisto does as well.

Remember that according to Lucas, the Sith were formed 2,000 years before the events of the films as a splinter faction of the Jedi. There was then a war 1,000 years before the films--heavily implied by the films to have involved the Sith as the antagonists, and confirmed by TCW--at the conclusion of which the present Republic was formed. So according to Lucas's own conception of the timeline there were already Jedi running around long before the Republic we see in the films was formed, which is at least consistent with Ben's dialogue in ANH and the idea of multiple incarnations of the Republic.

Keep in mind all the First, Second, and Third Republics that have existed throughout history, and that Lucas is an avid reader of history, and I think it's fairly plausible that this is what Lucas had in mind. Perhaps it isn't, and he did simply misremember "generations" as "years", but I see no particular compelling reason not to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that he uses "thousand" for both could be simply because of a preference toward the aesthetic qualities of thousandfold quantities.

 

Owen probably didn't fraternize with 3PO back in the day, and he had like- one 10 second conversation with him at the auction. We see several near identical versions of 3PO's design throughout the saga. ( not the least of which were at the beginning of ANH) And given 3PO was a dingy grey when last they met, it's not the biggest stretch to think he wouldn't recognize him.

I'm willing to admit, it would've been great if Lucas had the foresight to try and make these things fit a bit easier. But, there really isn't any jaw dropping inconsistencies between trilogies.

 

As soon as Obi Wan's name came up, you might have expected there to be a realisation of the significance. "Oh great. First he dumps my step-brother's kid on my doorstep. Now his garbage is crawling back to this place. I'll bet those droids weren't even fully paid for by Anakin and I'll have repo guys coming for them next too. Why couldn't dad have bought a virgin slave like everyone else?"

 

Lucas came up with great answer, Threepio is in silver/metal casing when he served on Lars farm, but when he returns he is in Golden splendor, and there are numerious Threepio units (millions probably), so Lars probably just though C-3PO was just another "human and cyborg relations" droid. As for the voice, its been a long time. Owen and Beru Lars were barely in twenties in the Prequels, and when the Droids return they are in their fifties (estimation). It is normal to forget droid. After all Kenobi said, "I don't seem to remember the droid..," and yet Kenobi had fought along side R2D2 and known him for many years. Even Obi-Wan was not impervious to the ravages of time and distance from characters.

 

What's more confusing is that 3PO once worked on the Lars farm, but Owen later states that the farm has no need for a droid of 3PO's type.

 

I don't see the problem of the Lars living on the same farm. It is quite common for generations of a family to live on the same farm, hence the phase family farm. Boba's original backstory from TESB was that he was a son of a stormtrooper clone from the clone wars per Lucas. But he ended up tweeking it that he is the "son" (unaltered clone) of the clone template. Obi states he did not remember owning a droid as he was never R2's owner in the PT. Lucas agreed with you about young Greedo which is why he was changed to not Greedo. There were plenty of Greedo clones walking around in ANH and even in Jabba's palace in ROTJ.

What gets me is how TFA completely ignores the force powers Leia has which both TESB and ROTJ established. Not even a throwaway line that she could no longer sense her brother or something.

 

But Owen still buys 3PO to work on the farm. He says he doesn't need a droid for etiquette and protocol, but 3PO has uses that suit the farm. And the only reason the Lars' had him was because he was Shmi's.

 

She can sense that Luke is alive, but not where he is. He's not reaching out to her like he did on Bespin. She can sense Han die, which is why after it happens, we see a pained expression on her face as she sits down. Remember, Vader knew that Obi-wan was alive, but he couldn't sense where he was hidden at. Even when he was in orbit of Tatooine. Ahsoka and Vader didn't know that the other was alive, until they made a connection in the Force, when the former reached out into the Force and felt his distinct tremor and when he felt her's, he was surprised to find out that she was alive.

 

The point is that Lars himself recognises the type of droid and that it is no use on the farm. In spite of having worked with a droid of that type on that farm in the past.

 

But 3PO does have a use, or else Owen wouldn't have bought him in ANH. We don't know the extent of 3PO's work on the farm at the time of AOTC. He may have just been their butler, not very useful. That's why the Lars' aren't as annoyed as they otherwise might be when he leaves with Padme and Anakin.

 

Yeah I know he has a use. Lars once used him (and it didn't look like he was a butler either). Owen knows this. Why then does Owen make up his own mind, before 3PO convinces him otherwise, that a droid of this type is if no use to him on the farm?

Also. How does 3PO remember where and when he used to programme load lifters if his memory was erased before being pressed into protocol service by Bail Organa?

 

He's obviously not referring to what he did before the mind wipe. His first job after that was programming binary load lifters. This happened in a location that was not Tatooine (a planet that he does not recognize).

EDIT: Alternatively, he knows that what he was originally programmed for was programming binary load lifters. He just doesn't know the context.

 

But his first and only job since having his memory wiped at the end of ROTS has been serving as a protocol droid in the royal house of Organa.

Presumably a memory wipe incudes records of what 3PO has done up till then. Otherwise what's the point?

 

Threepio's first job after his memory wipe was operating binary load lifters, which are similar to moisture vaporators. That and his ability to speak Bocce is why he was purchased by Owen. Before then, Shmi kept Threepio because he was created for her and we do see him operating the vaporator out front, when Anakin and Padme arrived.

 

I'm sorry, but, which film is that in. He's a protocol droid in the service of Bail Organa at the end of ROTS. And he's still that at the beginning of ANH.

3PO says his first job was programming load lifters, but the movies show us something different. That's why there's a discussion about it.

 

THREEPIO: "He says he's the property of Obi-wan Kenobi, a resident of these parts. And it's a private message for him. Quite frankly, sir I don't know what he's talking about. Our last master was Captain Antilles, but with what we've been through, this little R2 unit has become a bit eccentric."

No, he was not in Bail's service. Not directly. He tells Captain Antilles to wipe Threepio's memories and he winds up serving under him, not Bail. That is where he learns to operate binary load lifters. Threepio and Artoo are later assigned to Amda Waboo at the request of Bail, but they are then brought back to Alderaan and once again are in the custodianship of Antilles.

 

Captain Antilles is a member of royal household of Organa and he is their "last" master. This proves nothing regarding 3POs supposed "first" job.

He's a protocol droid when he is inherited by Bail. Then his memory is wiped. He's a protocol droid at the beginning of ANH. This gap year as a labourer, band-aid type explanation for him stating his first job was something other than a protocol droid is beyond a joke.

I'm sorry but there's no Amda Waboo or not being part of the Alderannian royal household between III and IV in the films. I don't have any truck contrived, supplemental stories that need to be created in order to explain unintentional inconsistencies created by the movies.


I prefer it to be an acceptable anomaly and a mystery (such is life, such are memories) rather than something that supposedly makes perfect sense, as long as someone, decades later, goes to the trouble of creating further material to support it, and that the audience must watch or read in order to understand and accept it.

Maybe the memory wipe wasn't 100% successful and 3PO remembers his first job when activated on Tatooine. Doing that kind of manual/programming labour then would make sense. A lot more than being demoted fro protocol droid in between movies, then conveniently back to protocol droid when the story picks up again

 

I must've missed the scene where someone said that Threepio's first job under Captain Antilles was protocol service.
Very strange, since I've seen all the movies more times than I can count and pretty much know them by heart.

 

I must've missed the scene in ROTS where Bail told Antilles to put C-3PO, the protocol droid, to a different use than the one it's currently programmed for (protocol) after he wiped its memory. Or the scene in ANH where they talk about 3PO having been given a non protocol job, temporarily, since being in the service of Organa, via Antilles, but was now doing a job commensurate with his programming.

 

You're trying very hard to prove something that is clearly not true. Why not just take Threepio's word for it?

 

There's always the

"Threepio's memories are false, programmed in to replace all the memories of his time with Anakin and Padme, to ensure he doesn't have a "memory gap"

theory.