CT Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, pretty laid back after seeing the droids, again.

I'm not trying to prove anything except that it can't be explained without supposition or supplement (ugh!). Or perhaps that it's better off left as a mystery rather than pretending it's intuitively obvious and therefore consistent and beyond reproach.

 

There's nothing that contradicts Threepio's statement. Hence, it's consistent.

 

Lack of an overt contradiction is not the definition of consistency. Credulously taking someone's word, when it's supposedly vital to the plot like this, is not the same as observing consistency.

The truth is the 3PO's dialogue was written for an obsequious patter merchant like a used car salesman who is giving Lars a line of talk in order to clinch a sale, rather than being genuine. But the change of 3PO's characterisation to Daniel's prim and fussy butler took that dialogue with it. The prequels then consolidated the adroit characterization where the "my first job.." BS just doesn't fit in.

 

Because a prissy butler couldn't possibly have programmed load lifters unless we are explicitly shown that it happened?

 

I'm not trying to prove that he couldn't have. I'm just saying that it's something that you can pretend is intentional and unambiguous or you can accept that it's the by product of the evolution of the story and the style of star wars, like about 50% of what ended up on screen post 1977.

 

Those two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

No they are not. In the sense that you can definitely enjoy both. Just not simultaneously (not authentically anyway).

One of them is the reality of the movies' production and falls into the category of acceptable consequence of the artifice. The other one is when you tell yourself that it's not a movie and that it's real but still requires supposition to support the reality.

There is a clear demarcation of two different attitudes that one must adopt separately, and severally. Not jointly.

 

"must"?

From your point of view, maybe, but not from mine.

 

Will then doing so falls into the same category as when people who recognise things like ancient history, particularly religious history, as apocryphal and/or rationally accept has been debunked as myth, yet credulously elect to assume that it's real in order to justify continuity of the philosophy/lifestyle that is dependent on it being so. As opposed to an inconsequential, leisurely exercise.

 

Why, because you say so? Droids are programmed to do whatever they're programmed to do. Well before the PT, Threepio says that while he is programmed for etiquette and protocol, he was also programmed to operate binary load lifters. In ROTJ, Artoo is given the task of being a waiter droid, even though his function is ship's repair and maintenance. We know from the EU that there's been more than one Protocol droid that's programmed to be an assassin droid. Droids carry multiple functions based on programming usage.

There is no inconsistency, regardless of the cartoons. You're just looking for something to bitch about.

What makes you think it was a demotion? That's just an assumption on your part. It can be easily assumed that Antilles choose to give him a job that would be useful, in addition to being a Protocol droid. Seems reasonable and logical. We've seen via the films that droids have multiple functions based on what programming is given by the owners.

The fact is that a lot happens between films, always has been that way. Antilles could have programmed him to be a sex bot, for all we know. It isn't important to see what happened between ROTS and ANH, we know based on his own dialogue. The same way we know that Luke spent additional months training to be a Jedi, before rescuing Han. Or that the Jedi fought in a huge war for three years. Or that the Empire came to a truce with the New Republic.

 

I'm not bitching about anything.

And we don't know that Luke trained himself at all.

We know the GCW ended with a truce because that's how wars end.

Have an open mind about the unknown. But not so open that your brain leaps out.

 

Really? Your point of view seems to be, "If we don't see it, it didn't happen." You refuse to accept that Threepio was programmed to operate binary load lifters by Captain Antilles. So instead of listening to what he said, you have to concoct a theory that doesn't jibe with the facts of the film.

Yes, we do, because he didn't go back to Dagobah until afterwards. Luke promises to come back after rescuing his friends, which is what he was doing in ROTJ. Lucas didn't want Luke to train with Yoda anymore in the film, nor between the films. And since it wasn't Kanan, Ezra or Ahsoka, that leaves only self training.

What scene was that in ROTJ? I've watched it multiple times since it first came out.

The unknown is known. Threepio is left with Captain Antilles to be memory wiped and according to Threepio, his first job was operating binary load lifters.

 

In ROTJ its pretty clear the war did not end in a truce, but a huge victory for the rebels and a death blow to the Empire, especially with the SE.

 

darth-sinister Not accepting other people's suppositions isn't bitching. 3-PO says that was his first job. That's all. He might be mistaken. Who said the end of the war happened in ROTJ?

Slicer87 Wars either end with a truce or total victory on one side and surrender on the other. We know for a fact there was no total victory due to the co-existence of the new Republic and the FO.

 

Threepio is a droid and droids don't easily make mistakes, since their brains are computerized and not organic.

All wars end in a peace treaty being signed, unless the victors decide to commit mass genocide. Even Lucas would agree to that.

 

Or the losers committing mass suicide rather than surrender or face defeat. Also the losers can escape and go into hiding. Some losers just fight to the death, they will not be captured alive by any means. Some lose contact and remain isolated for some time, even for decades. Lastly, some just drop their weapons and peacefully return home. The Axis powers in WW2 did all of these.

I would think many of the high ranking imperials would be tried for crimes of various kinds. Some might plea deal. Others may flee and hide in some back corner of the GFFA, etc. The clone troops would likely have to be rounded up and exiled if they could even be taken alive.

As for TFA, it paints a very different picture than what ROTJ did. The problem for TFA is that ROTJ neatly wrapped up everything in a happy ever after ending, so the only thing TFA can do is rip up ROTJ to give itself an excuse to exist. ROTJ shows the collapse of the Empire in the climax of the original saga.

 

By mistaken I meant the memory wipe wasn't 100% successful. He's remembering working on the Lars farm from before or even earlier, when he wasn't used for protocol.

The audience presumed, naturally, a happy ever after scenario. It has been joked about for years that the end of ROTJ is no different than ANH except the head of state dies too, so why would the Empire necessarily just surrender totally in that instant.

TFA rips nothing up except presumptions.

 

The collapse of the Empire as a government. Not that the entire Imperial fleet, her Generals & Admirals & all personnel vanished into thin air. What TFA (& the Zahn books before it) establishes makes perfect sense. That Imperial forces fled to distant systems & slowly rebuilt & regrouped.

 

Sometimes the most likely solution is the solution. That he had other jobs than protocol and etiquette.

 

I must have missed the meeting when that scenario was confirmed as the most likely.

 

This isn't about confirmation bias. This is about the most likely and logical scenario that Lucas was intending in 1976 and again in 2003. Why is it an issue that Threepio was programmed to do something other than his default programming?

 

Who said anything about confirmation bias?

You just stated that the scenario you've described is the most likely as if it were an established fact.

I never said it was an issue. I already mentioned that 3PO's first actual jobs were anything but protocol and etiquette. He first helped Shmi and then worked on the Lars's farm.

What's an issue for me are these fan fiction detours invented to explain inconsistency rather than there considering an honest inconsistency in what is said and what happened. eg "Have the protocol droid's memory wiped" may not mean total memory loss, either by error or by design.

 

And what Lucas intended in 1976 was for 3PO to be a double talking used car salesman. In 2004 we got a supposed solution to the problem that 3PO knows stuff about Luke's father, and nothing more.

 

To be fair, Threepio is built from parts of a Protocol droid that was in Watto's shop. We see a few laying around in there. Said droid would have already been programmed with protocol and etiquette. He wasn't built completely from scratch.

A memory wipe doesn't remove all functions. The same way that wiping your hard drive doesn't render it inoperable. The protocol, etiquette and language programs would still be within his memory. What is wiped was his memories of being on Tatooine, serving the Lars, serving Padme and his adventures in the war. When he wakes up, he only knows what he is told by Artoo and what he is ordered to do. Additional programming would be added.

There is no fan fiction here. Follow what is in the films, which is that he is wiped and given new programming. What you're trying to say, that the wipe wasn't 100%, that's fan fiction.

 

When the government collapsed, its fleets and armies lose their supply line, which puts any unsurrendered forces on borrowed time until their supplies to fight or even live run out. Added to this the wide spread celebrations of the Empire's defeat indicates widespread unpopularity of the Empire and few civilized planets willing to give Imperials aid. It is possible some Imperials may turn to bushwacking for survival.

While ROTJ is unclear with what happened to the Imperial navy after the battle of Endor. However, the film implies the Imperial forces suffered major losses and its navy was badly weakened, probably no longer to fight effectively.