Under age drinking.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Captain-Communist, Jun 16, 2002.

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  1. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    2) On the other hand, since drugs are illegal, including marijuana, which I believe to be a lot less harmful than alcohol (when is the last time you heard of a guy beating up his wife and kids because he was high on pot?), I think alcohol should be illegal too--for everyone, not just those under 21. But again, that's a topic for another thread.

    I completely agree.
  2. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    I also agree that it should be for another thread.
  3. AmadeusExMachina Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    Darth Fierce said-

    "I can say with certainty that it is a false assumption that all or even many youths will do these things. You claim to be experienced, but if you believe the old "all the kids are doing it" mantra, I believe you're mistaken. Most youths have the good judgement to avoid these types of things before they're ready for them. Which also means that the ones most likely to do them are the ones most likely to have problems because of them."



    This is flat out incorrect, in every way. You seem to be saying that only the minority of say, high school age children indulge in drinking and sex......I'm just over a year out of high school, and mine must have been in some immoral alternate dimension, because at LEAST 3 out of 4 kids were sexually active in my senior class, and a higher ratio had been involved in underage drinking.

    Now, most of those kids weren't ready for either activity, frankly, but some were.

    It's the sort of thing that's entirely dependant on the individual, which is why underage drinking isn't something I would say is "always wrong." It's no less wrong for a kid who's 20 and 11 months old to drink a beer than it is for his friend who is a month older, if it's wrong at all.

    Beer is harmless, stupidity is the dangerous element. The two mix rather horribly.
  4. That_Flashing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
    You claim to be experienced, but if you believe the old "all the kids are doing it" mantra, I believe you're mistaken. Most youths have the good judgement to avoid these types of things before they're ready for them.

    I believe you are the mistaken one, my friend. I live in Southern California and the ratio of people doing it to people not doing it is about 5:1.

    The good judgement doesn't lie in the decision to do it, it lies in the actions while doing it. I have never heard about or seen people doing dangerous acts or getting in a car crash after a party. News travels fast in High School and I've never heard of someone causing an accident with their car while intoxicated after a party. That shows the level of responsibility. And, trust me, we have enough parties in So Cal as it is.

    I guess you could say that because it is so common place for people to drink underage, that the underage people who do drink are responsible enough. They understand that drinking is cool, but doing stupid things isnt.
  5. alent1234 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 1
    In many european countries kids start drinking from age 10 or close to that. And there is a smaller incidence of alcoholism and many alcohol related problems that we have here in the USA. Unlike here, alcohol is just another beverage in europe. Over here people try to say that it's bad and try to control some people's access to it. So people do the opposite and abuse it.
  6. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    truer words could not be spoken alent.
    Take away the stigma and you have less problems.

    I drank in high school, most of my friends drank in high school and it really hasnt caused problems as i and my friends all have pretty good jobs and no one is an alcoholic(that i know of)
  7. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I'm 17 years old, and I've never had a drink in my whole life. Nor do I have any wish to. Nonetheless, I don't see why drinking is such a horrible crime for teenagers. Yes, it's illegal, yes, there are reasons for it, but I don't think kids should be put in jail for it. Maybe probation, but not jail. The only person the teen is hurting is possibly themself. Now, if they drink and drive, I definitley support throwing them in jail. (I'm in driver's ed. Some of the true drunk driving stories are so sickening. :()
  8. EMPRESS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2000
    star 3
    There's a difference between drinking and being drunk. They are not always the same thing. Two summers ago, I was in Rome. At dinner most nights, I had a glass of wine with my meal. I was fine. It's not like I was getting smashed everynight and stumbling around the streets of a foreign country. I think it's important to know the difference.

    And there are kids that will drink regardless of consequences. Half my grade drinks, and I'm only 15. Do I think they're stupid? Yeah, I do. But I can't do anything to stop them.They think that they are mature enough to handle it. There are people, howebver, who are somewhat responsible when they drink. before they start, the select a designated driver, and he's the only one who gets keys that night. He also makes sure no one drinks themselves into alcohol poisoning. I think there is nothing inherently wrong with drinking as long as you take precautions.
  9. Neon_Ninja Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2002
    star 1
    I'm not even sure why this is an issue.

    If it's against the law, you simply don't get to do it. Personal feelings concerning the validity of the law are irrelevant, as are arguments on how other countries regulate drinking. This is the country we live in. If we respect the country, we respect it's laws.

    Is there anything wrong with responsible drinking? No. Is there anything wrong with responsible drinking if you are underage? Yes. It's illegal. Since when did we start deciding it was okay to partake in illegal activity?

    Like I said, I'm not even sure why this is an issue.
  10. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    One out of every ten people who ever takes a drink becomes an alcoholic. If you saw ten pistols lined up and knew one of them contained a bullet, would you pick up a random pistol, point it at your head, and pull the trigger? Neither would I.
  11. That_Flashing Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2000
    star 5
    Since when did we start deciding it was okay to partake in illegal activity?

    When the law that forbids us to do it is unreasonable.
  12. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Personal feelings concerning the validity of the law are irrelevant

    They are?

    I certainly disagree. How did the laws come into existence in the first place?

    Perhaps what is illegal should not be illegal at all. Not saying that's how it should be, but saying that because it's illegal now and because of that, all discussion on the matter is wrong isn't right.
  13. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
    The underage drinking laws are a joke, at the moment. Federal US law (or is it most of the states--please correct me if I'm wrong) prevents anyone from drinking under the age of 21. That's a ridiculous age, and I'd be surprised if even 20% of people haven't consumed alcohol by the time they have reached 21. Even 18, in the UK and most of Europe, is unrealistic as a blanket prohibition. Rather than having a situation where the law sets a very high age limit, but everyone knows and accepts underage drinking anyway, we should have a system of gradations that people can enforce and respect. It would begin at 13-15 and continue up to 21, the rules relaxing as the person gets older. Enforcability would be a problem, but it would at least be an improvement on the current system where the law is unenforced and unrealistic.
  14. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    D_S- I have never met a person in the US who hasnt had a drink before age 21. It is a rarity to find someone who has.

    And to Neon Ninja who said that it is wrong to drink when you are underage simply b/c that is the law, that is one of the more ridiculous statements i have ever heard. I'm sure you have never broken the law, never jay walked, forgotten to clean up after a pet, or any of the other laws that people break every day. For god's sake oral sex is illegal in many states. So yes it is an issue

    And once again just because someone you know became an alcoholic does not mean every one will. Most People enjoy alcohol responsibly and it does not negatively affect them. Like everything else alcohol should be used in moderation. i do feel sorry for the people who cant control themselves and cant enjoy a fine wine with a meal, or a nice dry Sake with sushi or a good beer with mexican food, or a good scotch after a good meal, etc...
    These are the little things that make life wonderful.
  15. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    You forgot to add speeding. My goodness, there are alot of naughty, law breaking people out there, isn't there!

    Latre! :D
  16. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah...since the law says we can't do it, we'd better not! Do you have any mp3's? Drank wine in church? Ever taped a CD that a friend had? What about jay-walking? Ever known someone who smoked a cigarette before they were 18 and failed to tell the cops about it? These things are all breaking the law. Before you just blindly trust the laws, it's a very good idea to think about them. Our country was founded by law-breakers. They wouldn't want you to just blindly accept these things.
    And now onto the actual topic...I just wanted to share that when I was 15 years old, I got alcohol poisoning and was in the hospital for two days. It was disgusting, embarassing, and I got into soooo much trouble for it. At the time I knew very very little about alcohol. I had never drank before in my life. No one had told me that there was any difference between drinking and being drunk. Since it was so completely taboo to me, I had no clue so I just drank until I passed out.
    Now I'm not saying that things like this would never happen if alcohol weren't illegal for minors, I'm just saying that once you open up the doors for parents to say to their children, "Look, I know you are going to drink so I'm going to tell you about my experiences and give you some guidelines about drinking," then drinking becomes a much safer thing. I have friends whose parents didn't really care about their kids drinking, as long as it was in their house. That way they knew that they didn't have to drive home, they knew that they weren't going to do anything stupid, and they knew that no one was going to take advantage of them.
    I believe that if we take the horrible sinful aspect out of drinking, it makes it less of a taboo. Look at Japan. (I'm sorry if this isn't actually what it's like in Japan if anyone is from there...I just read about it in my Japanese Culture class) In Japan alcohol is sold in vending machines on the side of the street. Anyone who wants can drink to their heart's content. But they don't because people who do that are looked down on in their culture. The US should be more like that.
  17. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    The US should be like that, it is too bad that it isnt. You are defiantely right, if kids were taught about alcohol, instead of saying that it is evil and they shouldnt drink it, than they might make more informed descisions. I am lucky my parents let me drink and didnt consider it taboo.
  18. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I don't think anybody should drink, esspecially young kids.
  19. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Not all believe in the Word of Wisdom, although no one can criticize its health/spiritual values.

    I think it is fine if done responsibly.
  20. Mad_Ewok Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 3
    I'm almost 19 and have never had a drink. In high school I was shocked at how widespread underage drinking is. There was a huge presentation by the police department at my school with a phony car accident complete with ambulance and fake blood. The message from the police was not to refrain from drinking; the message was to not drink and drive. Since underage drinking is illegal, no matter what your views on that law are, I can't believe the police wouldn't tell young people not to drink at all.

    I don't understand why young people want to get smashed, act like fools, throw up on the carpet, and then wake up with a horrible hangover. Because so many other kids do it?
    There was a recent poll where I believe 60% of high school students asked had had a drink within the past month. This is an epidemic. I bet 98% of people have drank alcohol before being the legal age. Many of them are already raging alcoholics.

    Government programs crack down hard on smoking (even legal smoking) and drugs. But I hear almost nothing against underage drinking in school or on television. It's almost as if it's encouraged. Why? Because the alcohol companies don't want to lose profits? Cigarette advertizements in magazines are always put down for trying to make smokers look "cool." But the beer commercials on TV are worse! And now they've started advertizing hard liquor like vodka on TV. This can't be helping the problem.

    On another note, does anybody find it strange that Budweiser, Coors, and other companies sponsor NASCAR?
  21. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    -- There was a recent poll where I believe 60% of high school students asked had had a drink within the past month. This is an epidemic.

    Like someone said earlier. There's a difference between drinking and getting drunk. This survey could have included having a glass of champagne at a wedding, or drinking wine in a religious ceremony. It's not all bad.
  22. Mad_Ewok Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 3
    There's nothing wrong with it if it involves a religious ceremony IMO. The majority of underage drinking is at parties, and much of that drinking leads to getting drunk.
  23. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    First off saying it is ok if it is in a religous ceremony is a little bit ridiculous. Come on now. Alcohol in moderation is fine whether it is in chuirch or in ones living room after dinner. Moderation is the key. When kids are just told not to do something, that really will not stop them. By telling them just not to do it, you are also failing to tell kids the truth about alcohol, which leads to problems. I remember hearing how bad drinking was in DARE or whatever that program was and thinking it was ridiculous. Those teachers lost all crediblity to me b/c i saw all of my relatives drinking and having no problems with it. Instead of just extolling the evils of alcohol, our society should have a more european outlook on it. This would help our kids much more so than preching abstinece which clearly will never work.

    "I don't understand why young people want to get smashed, act like fools, throw up on the carpet, and then wake up with a horrible hangover. Because so many other kids do it?
    There was a recent poll where I believe 60% of high school students asked had had a drink within the past month. This is an epidemic. I bet 98% of people have drank alcohol before being the legal age. Many of them are already raging alcoholics. "

    First off, having a drink in the past month does not an make an epidemic. And you are right most people have drank before the legal age, and you know what most of them are not alcoholics. People drink before the legal age in many cases b/c their parents let them and think the law is ridiculous. You are blowing this way out of proportion.

    Kids dont necessarily drink b/c other kids do it, they do it to have a good time. Face it a party without alcohol is a lot less fun then a party with alcohol. Drinking loosens people up and creates some fun times. Maybe you dont like wild parties. that is not everyone's bag, but you should be able to see why other people do.


    Oh and kids dont get hangovers as bad as adults, their youthful metabolism can handle the alcohol better :p
  24. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    This is a major problem in the US.

    Instead of teaching young people how to handle potentially dangerous things, they make everything taboo and refuse to talk about it.

    The two major areas I see this happening are underage drinking and sexual education.
  25. Dacks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2001
    star 2
    Oh yeah, Neon Ninja:

    Did you know that not so long there were laws that put down the rights of women and blacks?

    Well, guess what, because people questionned them, and debated them, the world became a better place.

    Laws are not absolute, they are designed to represent the moral opinions of the majority of the population.
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