Under age drinking.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Captain-Communist, Jun 16, 2002.

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  1. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Thank you, JediTre.

    And thank you, Lord Bane, for stepping in.

    Obi-Trice: If you really are sorry, you need to take back what you said. And before you insult alcoholics, maybe you should do some research. It is a disease. Would you call a diabetic a "retard" for not being able to tolerate sugar? Neither would most people with an ounce of humanity in them. If alcoholics could help their lack of ability to tolerate alcohol, believe me, they would. Being an alcoholic is not fun. It is not a life I would wish on anybody. No one chooses it, and someone who is unfortunate enough to be afflicted with it does not deserve to be called a "retard".
  2. crispytomato Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    I'm 15 and very responsible and wouldn't drink and drive or anything, but most of the people my age aren't that mature and would (and do) drink and drive. There should still be a drinking age limit (even though that doesn't stop most, but at least it prevents some from doing it) as long as teenagers are immature. While it's unfair to people like myself who are responsible, I really don't mind because drinking isn't important to me at all and I only drink a little at social things.
  3. Obi_TriceKenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    I take back what I said. I am truly sorry for thos I offended. I just wouldnt let a drug take control of me. But now I understand it is an disease so I hope you can forgive me.
  4. Vera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    Nor I neither my grandpa are addicted to alcohol my darling. Tell me, what's wrong on drinking one beer with your luch. We can conroll drinking beer very well. And the other think - for example one beer every day is rather is good for your health - gues how old is my grandpa?

    And if you have an average czech tolerance to alcohol (and you aren't too young) it's a quite difficult to be addicted to it. An alcohol addict can drink 4-20 beers every day (2-10litres !!!) - so he has to spent 1800-9000 Kc per month (average Czech salary is 10000Kc per morth, 1$=30Kc).

    Somebody wrote here, that our beer costs 50 cents per litre so it's cheaper than water. I have to say that it itn's truth today. For the two reasons
    - rising prices of food and drinking in Czech Republic
    - for many reasons (we'll be in EU, etc.) is price of american dollar in Czech republic continualy lower and lower and don't want to stop that (few years ago - two or three - was 1$ more than 40 Kc now it is less than 30 Kc) - so you would pay aproximately one dollar for one litle of our beer :D
  5. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    When i was there i found this place where beer was 12kc. So it was very cheap to get drunk, and this was in prague, ive found cheaper places out in the country.
    Man i love the Czech republic, beautiful scenery, beautiful women, and cheap delicious beer.
  6. Obi_TriceKenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
  7. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Vera: 1) Maybe you and your grandpa can have beer with your lunch, but some people aren't able to. I don't know what the drinking age is in the Czech Republic, but we're discussing underage drinking here, and underage drinking is a completely different subject in America than it is in Europe. My experience when I was in Europe is that Europeans have a much better attitude towards alcohol than we do here in America. For one thing, the legal level of intoxication, at least in France, is much lower. For another thing, the drunk driving laws are much stricter. People play around too much in the United States; everyone thinks drinking and drunkenness is a joke, at least until either they or someone they know is hit with the disease of alcoholism. People on this thread are talking about how great Czech beer is. Well, I liked French wine. I also liked the way the French handled their wine. Sure, some of them got drunk sometimes, but most of the time, they were enjoying wine with a meal, for the taste.

    2) All that being said, I'm sure there are Alcoholics Anonymous meetings in the Czech Republic somewhere, because alcoholism doesn't discriminate.

    Once again, my stance on this issue:

    I would be in favor of having absolutely no drinking age, if everyone who drank did so in moderation (example: for the taste, with their meals, etc.) and no one ever got drunk and hurt other people or themselves. If alcohol were handled this way, there would be no need for a drinking age. However, that isn't how it works, at least in America--as I said, the Europeans seem to be a little more wise about their drinking habits. I don't think the drinking age of 21 has helped Americans any--there are plenty of people over 21 who are too immature to handle alcohol. Because of that, I'm in favor of prohibition.
  8. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    That is what non-Alcoholic beer, or near beer, is for. To enjoy the taste without getting drunk.

    If you are going to drink just for the taste of it, then why not find something that is non-Alcoholic?

    There is a reason for why people drink alcohol. Because of the way it makes them feel, other wise known as "drunk."

    But lets face it. When it comes to stupid things like this, America is way behind other countries. Sex and nudity is another good example. We are far to conservative with these issues as well.

    There are too many people who think they know what's best for you. Sometimes that's good, but not all the time. ;)

    Latre! :D
  9. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    MJS: I agree with you completely about sex and nudity. However, I think you're comparing apples to oranges here. I can't think of any circumstance in which nudity is harmful, and sex is not harmful as long as it is consensual and the right protection is used.

    You can't say that about getting drunk, however. Sure, you can plan to get drunk and arrange for someone to drive you home, you can have the permission of others around you to be drunk and make an ass out of yourself in their presence and throw up all over their carpet, but the fact is that once you're drunk, you are no longer in control of your actions. People do things when they're drunk that they wouldn't do sober. Alcohol is involved in half of all car crashes, and alcohol is the number-one killer of marriages. That's leaving out the fact that, even if your drunkenness never hurts anyone else, drunkenness causes damage to the liver, pancreas, kidneys, and brain cells. There is a reason drunkenness is referred to as intoxication--when you get drunk, you are putting way more alcohol into your system than your liver can filter out--causing the drunken effects and eventually the hangovers.

    Drinking is not a moral issue for me. It is a health issue and a societal issue.

    There are ways to have fun without passing out and throwing up afterwards, ways that don't have a negative effect on your body and on society.
  10. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    How many times have you heard words to this effect:

    "Ladies and gentlemen, it is with great honor that I accept this award. I attribute my success to many things, but most importantly, I owe my success to alcohol. If it weren't for my drinking habit, I wouldn't be the winner I am today. Indeed, all my achievements, my inner strength, and my devotion to family and friends, wouldn't exist today were it not for booze."

    And how many times have you heard words to this effect:

    "Alcohol ruined my life."
  11. anakin_girl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2000
    star 6
    Darth Fierce: Thank you--that's the most intelligent post I've seen on these boards in a very long time. :)

  12. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    Thanks, I'll be here all week. :p
  13. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    A_G

    But not near as fun! ;)

    Just kidding! :D

    I totally understand you point of view. I guess I rationalize it this way though, we are all going to die, so what does it matter if I drink heavily once a week? I do far worst things to my body than drink. (Over eat and don't exercise. What's one more thing. :p )

    Of course I speak about the health part of you argument.

    As for it destroying lives and people not having control. Drinking should not be an excuse for people who are violent and irresponsible.

    There are programs and centers for people who abuse alcohol and others. Just as it is there choice to drink, they can make the same decision to get help by using these things.

    (Good discussion A_G. You bring up some very good points!)

    Latre! :D
  14. Darth_Nemesis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    First off, I'm back from my 2 day ban, and I'd like to say sorry to Lord Bane. I had no clue I would offend you by using the expression ****faced. But I am sorry Lord Bane and to all I have offended. You must understand I do make mistakes with cuss words here and there. Now back to the discussion. I think I pretty much realized the other night, despite how I felt before, that drinking wastes your time and health. It's just not worth it, in how much it costs, how bad it makes you feel the next day, plus I'd rather try to get with a women I care about soberly and not act like a stupid idiot. Also doesn't beer and hard liquor taste like crap anyway? I can't stand it. And that's what I thought while drinking probably my last time, why am I doing this? I hate the taste, and all it's doing is making me sick. I pretty much have been depressed the last month and I think I'm finally pulling out of it and getting smarter. It kind of sucks when you roll your car, your grandpa dies, and your family is all pist at you all at the same time. But I'll I know is drinking doesn't solve problems, it worsens them.
  15. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    thanks... up

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  16. Leia_Solo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2002
    star 1

    I know a lot of people who do under age drinking, I lost a few friends due to it. Even when I am old enough to drink, I don't plan on going to a local store and buying beer and getting drunk. Sure, I might have a drink like once a month, but that is all. It's a horrible habit to get into, but I know lots of adults who got out of it.
  17. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    what is the point of drinking something with alcohol when you can just drink something else without it? To get drunk. Drinking to get drunk is stupid, IMHO. I am ok with some ocassional drinking like you said, but not with getting drunk. And I don't like underage drinking at all.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  18. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Wow! I forgot all about this thread! :D

    Well, let's see.

    To sum it up again:

    1. Under age drinking is bad.

    2. Alot of teenagers are going to do it anyway, so those of us who have experience in this activity might as well give them some advice on how to handle themselves.

    3. Drinking is not for everyone. I don't drink everyday. But when I do drink it is for one reason, to get drunk. Otherwise I will find something else that is better tasting to drink.



    I think that's about it. :)

    Latre! :D
  19. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    To all you underage kids who want to drink:

    You can drink if you want to, if you want beer, you can get it and drink it and there is really not much anyone can do to stop you.

    But's it's NEVER going to be legal for you. I know all the reasons, Europe, all that, but the bottom line is, I'm 22. I still remember all those years of needing fake id's and being underage and wanting to be able to go out being afraid of getting denied to clubs and bars and all that. Especially when I was 20, I cursed our basically federal drinking age. But now that I'm past the wonderful 21 year mark, I sure as heck wouldn't vote to lower the drinking age. The drinking age is like a right of passage. Come on, when you go to college, or are past 18, you basically get your "learners permit" with alcohol. You can get it whenever you want really, sometimes and certain bars you can go to, but you don't have your full drinking license. That's part of the zero tolerance, if you are under 21, you can't drink ANY alchohol and drive. If you are, you're allowed to have a few brews and drive. You have your full boozing license. Sure, drinking is fun, but you can all wait to enjoy the full pleasures till 21.

    Plus, it makes turning 21 and becoming an adult a little easier to bear.
  20. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Haven't seen you around these parts for ages, OWM :).
  21. Waning Drill Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 1999
    star 5
    "You have your full boozing license. Sure, drinking is fun, but you can all wait to enjoy the full pleasures till 21."

    A dangerous mentality, particularly when it concerns a substance that, as stressed by many before me, is best sampled in moderation.

    There are no hidden pleasures to be found here. What you see is what you get, whether you're 19 or 22. But that is not the message society imposes on its youth; they still think they're being physically inhibited right up until their 21st birthday. Falling prey to the hype, they'll set off in pursuit of these illustrious phantoms until it kills them.
  22. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    Waning Drill, nobody decides to not drink and be a good person and then just at 21 decide to go get drunk and all that. What is your position on underage drinking?

    I admit I entered the discussion late, but I was directing my comments at the underage kids who like me when I was their age thought it was ridiculous to have the honorable right to die for their country but don't have the right to have a drink. (Of course, during vietnam, our government kept our soldiers plenty drunk and stoned.)

    Nice to see you too KnightWriter! I've been on vacation. Ahh, vacation.
  23. Rogue_Squad_Leader- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2001
    star 4
    for all those that say "addicted to alcohol" thats impossible alcohol has no drug that makes you addicted like tobacco
  24. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Sorry, but you're wrong on that one. According to The Discovery Channel, "Like a copied key opening a locked door, opiates (heroin, opium, morphine, codeine) and alcohol bind to receptors on neurons throughout the body. Their effects are seen primarily in the regions of the brain that control the autonomic nervous system, which controls breathing, heartbeat, and other functions over which we have no conscious control. The action on these cells explains physical dependence but not the compulsive behavior associated with addiction. This is controlled by another part of the brain."
  25. Jedi_Master_Mom Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 2
    Young people who take up alcohol drinking before age 15 are four times as likely to become alcohol-dependent -- a diagnosis that corresponds to alcoholism -- as those who begin drinking at age 21, according to psychiatric epidemiologists Bridget F. Grant and Deborah A. Dawson, both of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) in Bethesda, Md.
    http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc98/1_24_98/fob1.htm

    Alcohol use is involved in:

    One-half of all murders, accidental deaths, and suicides
    One-third of all drownings and boating and aviation deaths
    One-half of all crimes
    Almost half of all fatal automobile accidents
    The health problems associated with alcohol include brain damage, cancer, heart disease, and cirrhosis of the liver

    Studies of individuals with either an alcoholic mother or father or both show that even if they are adopted, they still experience a greater risk of developing alcoholism than the general population. Similarly, offspring of nonalcoholic parents when adopted into families with an alcoholic mother or father are less likely to develop alcoholism than the children of alcoholics.

    Alcohol is a potent nonprescription drug sold to anyone over the national legal drinking age. This drug is a tranquilizer and a member of the family of sedative-hypnotic drugs.
    http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/texts/guide/hmg06_0003.html


    I'm a daughter, granddaughter, niece and sister of alcoholics. I made the decision not to drink, because I am at severe risk at becoming an alcoholic. I am setting an example for my children in the hopes that they can stop this cycle too. Alcohol abuse and addiction is very real and I hope those who don't believe read some of the links above for more information. There is nothing wrong with have a drink now and then. Studies show the ONE beer or glass of wine a day is good for you AFTER you are of the legal drinking age.




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