Senate Understanding Christianity

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. MasterSanders Jedi Master

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    Jan 2, 2014
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    1. I could literally spend all day going through the scriptures describing the redemptive works of the cross, how Jesus did away with the old traditions of the hebrew people because he showed a better way, how that Jesus gave a message of love not hate and not even to hate people let alone kill them, according to the law of Moses the adulteress was suppose to be stoned to death but Jesus kept them from doing so in order to show that the fulfillment of the law and the prophets is now at hand.... Now if you seriously want those answers from an educational, doctrinal, or theological point of view then I will give you the myriad of verses that speak of the turning away from the letter of the law and moving towards a better covenant built upon better promises... Most of them will come from the gospels and Paul's letters... If you would like to have a discussion about the many passages detailing this I will be glad to point them out to you...

    2. I never said that the Catholic church killed more people than any other religion, what I said was that they killed more christians and muslims in my original post... Of course it is impossible to find an accurate figure let alone an estimate of how many people they have killed, but it is just as impossible to find a verse in scripture that says to pray to Mary or to the saints... Also I was not alive when these things happened, but nevertheless they did happen at the hands of the Catholic Church and I will not be lumped in with people who did atrocities in the name of God.... Also there were many other forms of Christianity during that time and you can't say that the Catholic Church was the end all be all during that time... Yes it was predominant and abused its power, but there were many separated sects that did not follow the pope, Orthodox to be the main branch during that time...

    3. I never said I thought they were wrong, it is the Bible that says they are wrong.... I'm not speaking from my own opinion (except for a few statements about how many christians and muslims the catholic church has killed) but from a biblical standpoint and defending what it is to be a christian and what it is not... The discussion is called Understanding Christianity and most of the posts against christianity that I have seen prior to my long rant was mainly against the Catholic church and that is why I felt the need to express that the beliefs, doctrines, and practices of the Catholic Church do not line up with the Word of God, plain and simple....

    4. Yes, heresy is another way of describing what the Catholic church believes and practices according to scripture (not my own opinion) However giving holy qualities towards saints and to Mary is blasphemy making them out to be like God or gods themselves, especially since the scriptures clarify that the saints are all believers not a select few... Once again there is only One God in three persons Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, no the word trinity is not in scripture, however even in Genesis 1 you see Father, the Word(the son John 1:1), and the Holy Spirit. Mary is not equal with God and neither are the saints and should not be prayed to...
    Webster's definition of blasphemy -

    a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God (praying to mary and saints rather than praying to God)

    b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity (Mary and the saints are not God or gods and should not be prayed to according to scripture)
    2
    : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable (the Word of God being misinterpreted by the Papacy and the Vatican in order to maintain control over the masses, control the teaching of the scriptures, and keeping the uneducated public unaware of the true meaning of the scriptures because all scripture was in latin until many martyrs paved the way for translation of the bible into english and many other languages)
    Last edited by MasterSanders, Jan 19, 2014
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  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yeah, the Southern Baptists split from other American Baptists because the Southern Baptists believed that slavery was biblically endorsed (which it kinda is).

    And the Merriam Webster definition of a Christian is "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ."

    Catholics are Christians. They profess belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

    The end.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jan 19, 2014
  3. MasterSanders Jedi Master

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    Jan 2, 2014
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    Well I could go on a list of things that the Baptist leave out of their doctrine too, but I won't... Obviously every denomination is flawed somehow and according to scripture sectarianism is sin, however the bible is not flawed it is the Word of God and should be taken at it's meaning... (according to my beliefs and most definitely not to most of yall's beliefs) Believing what you read rather than reading what you believe... See the difference? Most christians only believe what their denomination doctrine says or what their preacher preaches instead of reading the bible for what it's literally saying... I'm speaking from a biblical standpoint not from a denominational standpoint or my own opinion... Hence why I'm not going to an organized church and mainly do house meetings with other believers which is closer to what the book of acts and the other letters of Paul speak towards... It was when church became organized by the Romans that Christianity lost the true meaning of the scriptures and lead to where we are now...
  4. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    Jun 2, 2007
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    The Bible is flawed in several areas. It is futile to think otherwise.

    First and foremost, there are numerous translation and editing errors. Not surprising when the book is as old as it is.

    Second, it is flawed scientifically. Just look at the book of Genesis and you'll see how it doesn't line up with astronomy, geology or biology.

    Third, it is chock full of internal inconsistencies and contradictions.
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  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
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    Yeah, the whole "inspired by God" argument...anybody can say they were "inspired by God."

    And many people do, and bring to mind a quote I've used on this site before, from one of my favorite writers, who is a practicing Presbyterian:

    You know you've created God in your image when God hates all the same people you do.

    "Things" could substitute for "people" here.

    Plus I speak three languages and I know how much nuance gets lost in just one translation. The Bible has been translated many times. This is where I give @Skywalker8921 credit; I don't agree with her stance on the Bible but she seems to have made the effort to study what the original Hebrew said in order to back up her convictions.
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  6. Saintheart Chosen One

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    Except yours, of course.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jan 19, 2014
  7. timmoishere Force Ghost

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    Jun 2, 2007
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    Yes, every other denomination is wrong. Yours is right, and yours alone. You and those who believe exactly as you do are the only True Christians (tm). How fortunate for you.
  8. MasterSanders Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2014
    star 1
    I have no denomination and I do not presume to be right about all things scripture, however I am only speaking to doctrinal issues that are contrary to scripture (catholic doctrine in particular which is why I posted to begin with) If you were laying everything on christianity on any single denomination I would have listed scriptural differences with their doctrine... My denomination is - Word for word everything that new testament church is suppose to do outlined by Jesus' teachings, Acts, and predominantly the writings of Paul who speaks most to all doctrinal issues... For instance contrary to most denominations I believe in a Post Tribulation gathering together with Jesus in the air and returning back to the earth, where as most denominations believe in a pre tribulation rapture (the word rapture is not in the bible and there are no scriptures in accordance that it happens before the tribulation) and I don't believe that all supposed curse words are wrong most of them are culturally found to be immoral or distastefulI, for a couple of examples... I was taught and continue to teach what the bible says, if asked I will give my opinion on certain issues, however in the end all things doctrinal should line up 100% with scripture and that is what I have been speaking to...

    I believe every denomination does something right more than others, but each one does something wrong even churches that I have been a part of... I also agree that to find the truest meaning of the scripture you must go back to the hebrew and greek which I did extensively in bible school and continue to do... I also only read a bible that made its translations from the original languages... Also I have a Vine's dictionary for greek words that allows to get the full understanding of each scripture because where english has one word to express love Cornea Greek has 7... I'm not hating on Catholics or Baptists or anyone else I'm just saying what the bible has to say about what they believe, which is why this discussion is called understanding christianity... Hypocrisy is everywhere in the church, in other religions, and in people who believe in nothing... There are always people who aren't doing what the bible says and no one is perfect, but all of it has to be striving to be as close to biblically correct as possible and that is where I have problems with preachers, churches (Westboro Baptist - I strongly dislike those people) and anyone else who misuses scripture and makes up their own crazy doctrine that doesn't line up with the bible... That is why I have posted everything thus far to point out misinterpretations of scripture and doctrines that don't match what the bible says....
  9. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Your post still indicates that your means of interpreting the Bible is correct whereas all these denominations are wrong, however.

    Your assertion that literal interpretation of the Bible is the only "correct" way to do it, indicates this.
  10. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    *fixed for accuracy.
  11. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

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    What the heck . . . I'm bored, bored, booooooored, and it seems no one has actually responded to the thread title prompt about favorite Bible verses.

    One of my favorites is Matthew 25:34-40:

    I like it because Jesus tells us how God wants us to treat people, especially outsiders. This resolves the tension between divine commandments such as Zechariah 7:10 and Deuteronomy 20:16-17, via Galatians 3:23–25 and Ephesians 2:15.

    Now is when half of you call me a no-good theist, and the other half call me a no-good liberal. That's fine. I'm ready. :p
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  12. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

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    Almost 24 hours and no response? Has the Senate died, or are you all conspiring to kill me with boredom? :p

    Maybe I didn't render myself sufficiently controversial.

    This is Deuteronomy 20:16-17:
    That's the divine command for genocide that leads to the Canaanite slaughter in Joshua.

    Zechariah 7:10 is:

    Again, that's God talking. Hardly sounds like the same guy, particularly with regard to foreigners.

    Everything else in my post alludes to the idea that Old Testament law is subordinate to Jesus' revealed truth.

    Generally, secularists who dislike Christianity and conservative biblical literalists object to the downplaying of things like the extermination of the Canaanites. I know there are several of you out there . . . lurking in the woods . . . putting on your hockey masks . . .

    Are you really going to let me get away with asserting that God is a fuzzy-wuzzy Sky Daddy? :p
  13. Saintheart Chosen One

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    Dec 16, 2000
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    Ophelia for the Master Troll Award ;)
  14. ophelia Cards Against Humanity Host. Ex-Mod

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    Seriously! And it's not even working! :(
  15. Sarge Chosen One

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    Don't look at me; I accepted the dichotomy years ago. :)
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  16. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

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    Dec 18, 2012
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    It's good if this thread can focus on understanding Christianity rather than who's 'right' and who's 'wrong'. I've noticed that many other threads tend to descend into closed-minded arguments, so I hope this one doesn't follow suit [face_worried]
    Last edited by Eryndil, Feb 9, 2014
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  17. Eryndil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2012
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    Um, you no-good liberal theist? I agree with you.

    There's also this one:

    Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV)

    36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

    37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    This emphasises just how important it is to love others (and God, of course). To paraphrase Anakin Skywalker, compassion (unconditional love) is central to a Christian's life.
    Last edited by Eryndil, Feb 9, 2014
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  18. Ghost Chosen One

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    Oct 13, 2003
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    I'm hearing more and more that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church could be reunified within our lifetime. The differences that split them were mostly based around church organization (Catholics being more top-down and Orthodox more bottom-up), culture and politics of the time, with theological differences (such as the origin of the Holy Spirit) not being as important at the time for causing the split. Though the theological gap has slightly widened in the thousand years since then, it doesn't seem too wide to bridge. Does anybody see this happening sometime in the 21st century?
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  19. Saintheart Chosen One

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    Dec 16, 2000
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    Hard to say. If the decline in church numbers worldwide continues I can see the attraction of reunifying. It would be a mistake to think Francis speaks for or represents a majority of attitudes in the Church hierarchy: there will be any number of conservative morons in there who will just wait out his prelacy, since the conventional wisdom is that they tend to switch between reformers and conservatives on St Peter's chair. I'm fuly expecting a hardline Italian back on the chair next time round.

    I'd be surprised if there was full reunification theologically - I'd much more expect a situation similar to the autonomous particular churches, where they have their own traditions, cultural practices and whatnot but defer to Rome on matters of doctrine. Most likely the Eastern Orthodox churches would come in via the bridge of the Byzantine Rite practiced by the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church. The sticking point, which really is the first and last word on the subject since it's at the heart of both the bureaucratic and theological issues, is the primacy of Rome. It would take one very big step by the Eastern Orthodox Church to set aside that point and allow itself to come under Rome's authority, since in a very real sense that's about all that distinguishes them from a Catholic Church.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jul 24, 2014
  20. Ghost Chosen One

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    Francis refers to himself as Bishop of Rome more than as Pope of the Catholic Church, and seems to see himself as more of a Prime Minister than a President. Maybe it will be the Catholics that shift? Or there will be some compromise? Also, I think Benedict and John Paul were both in favor of reunification too, and maybe even the Popes before them.
  21. Saintheart Chosen One

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    Dec 16, 2000
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    Every Pope in the modern era has wanted reunification. Well, all the ones who figured out that burning heretics wasn't exactly the smartest way to bring dissenters back into the fold, anyway. It's more a matter of the terms they tend to insist upon for that reunification. Francis refers to himself as the Bishop of Rome, but the Catholic Church regards itself in its entirety as subject to the Bishop of Rome, so calling himself that is largely symbolic and an indication of emphasis, not any substantive change in what he believes his authority to be. If Francis thinks of himself as just another bishop that might be a different thing - and like it or not, he's not just another bishop in substance no matter what he says. Within the Vatican he holds good old supreme temporal as well as spiritual power, just as his predecessors did back in the medieval to late Renaissance period. Eventually that's going to have to change as well, though given the general idiocy with which Italy generally seems to run itself I could understand it if the Popes refused to give up their grip on the Vatican partially out of concern for what the hell would happen to the mindblowingly-huge collection of art and history that they still hold.
    Last edited by Saintheart, Jul 27, 2014
  22. I Are The Internets Chosen One

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    Nov 20, 2012
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    Why not dissolve the churches and create the first Galactic Catholic State?
  23. Saintheart Chosen One

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    The Catholic Church calls itself the one universal church already, so that would be a step down.
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  24. Sarge Chosen One

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    Y'all do know that the word catholic means universal, right?
  25. BUZZINHARD Jedi Padawan

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    Jul 11, 2014
    Did God also leave us free will to decide to suffer through cancers and other ailments? To choose to have babies that are deformed and SUFFER throughout their lives even though they could not even form an evil thought nor action, that His ALL CARING WORDERFULNESS could have helped those poor souls but chose not to??? I'd rather stick to science that at least WORKS to find cures to such things..
    Last edited by BUZZINHARD, Aug 27, 2014