Senate Understanding Christianity

oh I agree with you, however, society dictates many things. What is vulgar is one of them. If a word offends even one person it would not be loving to use that word around them. In society, and not just in the south, many are offended by the use of "colorful metaphors". Jesus told us if something offends someone then we should not do that action. It's a matter of love for neighbor.

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking, darthOB1. We're getting into the territory of "all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable" and also "do not cause your brother to stumble." It's possible - in fact, it's commonplace - for people to say things without using profanity which do far more damage to our neighbors than using curse words. I believe that's what the verses about controlling your tongue are focusing on.

 

offending people isn't always a bad thing. jesus offended people.

indeed, one could argue that the gospel is offensive.

 

A question for any Christians who might wander into this thread, at this time of year... why do you identify yourself a Christian?

For me, it's because Christianity (when it's at its best) revolves around Love, and is Life-affirming and Joyful. Not the "Christianity" that's corrupted by fear of hell or greed for heaven, instead of love for the sake of love. Christianity at its core essence, to me, is about the ultimate triumph of Love, and therefore of Life and of Joy. Best represented by the events of Good Friday and Easter Sunday, and the teachings/example of Jesus. Beyond any other religion (which all have a very similar message), Christianity is founded on the idea that God is Love, that Love is God, that we should not judge or condemn anyone, that we should forgive everyone, that we should even love our "enemies". That our love saves us, that life is good, that Eternal Life will conquer death, and that we will be blessed with true Joy. It's such a powerful, positive message that's then embodied by the events of Jesus suffering and dying for all others, even though he didn't have to, and being raised from the dead.
I've also had personal experiences (insights from my own reflection/thinking, dreams, physical signs, intuition, and more, which I've talked about it detail in threads here over the years) that have since I was 15 not only convinced me of the power and positive-ness of this message, but also of its Truth.
That's why I identify as a Christian.

 

Yes, but one could not argue that this gives Christians a general right to offend people, beyond what is inseparable from the requirements of the life and belief the gospel dictates.

Random bursts of offensive behavior don't exactly meet this standard. As to sj's post, I enjoyed it very much. I will need some time to compose my response.

 

I think the best way to handle this is: If doing or saying what you genuinely believe is right offends people, then that's the price you (and they) have to pay. If you're going out of your way to offend people for lesser reasons, then that's wrong.

 

I think it just comes down to manners and tact... know your audience. I don't need the gospel to tell me that dropping f-bombs around my grandmother or a toddler isn't cool.

 

I just came across this interesting article about the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem and seeing as its Easter, I thought I would post it. Co-existence between Christianity and Islam is possible.

 

He Only offended those who hypocritically claimed to be serving God. Those who's duty it was to Shepard his people but failed because of the traditions of men they harshly imposed of their followers.

 

Why I identify myself as a Christian: because when I ask Jesus if I should, the answer is an overwhelming YES! I know that Christ is Love, Justice, and Righteousness, and that He loves me for who I am, warts and all, and that He will help me become the best me possible. My brain understands His Truth, and I feel it in that soft pink organ in my chest that pumps blood.

 

I am Catholic because I was raised as a Catholic, but I choose to remain a Catholic because Jesus preached a message of peace, tolerance and human rights in an empire that glorified war and was built on slavery. For this He was tortured to death and yet He is unquestionably the single most influential person to have ever lived.

 

That doesn't actually explain why you choose to remain Catholic over say going to another Denomination.

Also, far be it for me to say why you should or shouldn't believe, but believing Jesus is God should be a bit more than just that he preached a certain set of messages. Lots of people preached these messages. You don't think they're all God, though.

 

I have an honest question here. Why is it that some Christians take it as a personal affront when they learn that a close friend or family member is an atheist? I made an atheist post on Facebook today (a simple one, saying that Easter is the best day to be an atheist), and my former step-grandmother (complicated relationship, I know) took it as her personal mission to display every manner of Christian bigotry and intolerance and hatred imaginable. She even stooped so low as to say that my dead father would be ashamed of me. And when I responded back, she acted all hurt, like she was the one being insulted.

Now, I certainly disagree a lot with the Christian belief system. But when I see any form of religious post on my Facebook feed, I simply scroll past it. It's not my business what my acquaintances believe or not. So I'm struggling to understand how one can profess to be a loving tolerant follower of Jesus in one instance, and then behave in the complete opposite way in the next.

Any thoughts?

 

She's an idiot? Like any religion, the name gets invoked for some truly screwed-up crap from people who, if they are true to what they claim, both know better and should be doing that instead of whatever c rap they're engaging. When on the receiving end of that, it's both exasperating and infuriating, one line of response being what happened to 'judge not' ? And yeah, bringing up your Dad is just low.

As for myself on the identification Q, I'd say yeah I still believe - can't quantify it and it's certainly blasted, bombed, ragged, shot, yet somehow some measure of faith remains. Nor is it something that I could really explain to anyone else. At least I think so.

 

Christians are imperfect people who make mistakes all the time. The only person who ever measured up to the standards of Christianity hasn't walked this Earth in almost 2000 years. The rest of us are just muddling along the best we can and praying that God helps us do better today than we did yesterday. And I know that my todays have gotten much better than my yesterdays. I couldn't possibly have pulled myself up by my bootstraps as far as I've gotten; my patience, understanding, and compassion have grown so much that I'm utterly convinced they could only have come from God.

 

But sometimes co-existence between the various churches isn't. That site has been the site of a brawl between members of various denominations/churches a couple of times and all around the time of Easter.

 

Fair point.

 

Just in case, the wagging finger emoticon is directed at those who would fight, not you.

 

I sort of figure that. Co-existence may not always be easy, but it is possible. That's important part.

 

I think that's the way to go for sure. If it's something particularly hateful, I can understand having to stop and challenge it, say in the case of someone posting something about discriminating against gays. Sometimes you have to do that, though it's not typically effective. But I think you're taking the high-road and it's what I try to do as well. I think this is the path to co-existence.

I would also venture to say that you have a much harder time on this issue. I would bet that you, as an atheist, see a ****ton more religious posts than, say, your aunt sees atheist posts. Maybe one small explanation is that she just hasn't built up the tolerance to seeing her beliefs contradicted on Facebook the way you have.

As a Christian, I didn't want to let your honest question pass without acknowledging it, but I don't really have an answer. Maybe it'll be helpful if I, as a Christian, just validate your reaction. You're absolutely right to be struggling with this issue. You're absolutely right to think it makes no sense. People use the term "cognitive dissonance" when they talk about faith to mean a lot of different things. I get how it means a lot of those things, but this is the area where I think it most applies. Using emotional blackmail to get someone to believe in compassion and tolerance. Yeah. Seems legit.

 

Timmio, I would say that sadly some Christians berate non-Christians for the same reason some atheists berate religious people, or some Republicans and Democrats berate each other, or some Southerners berate people from the coasts, or some baseball fans berate people who like football.... And on and on.

People are tribal by nature. They want to belong to a group, and they want to define that group by contrasting themselves with others. Religion is merely one of a thousand ways this can be expressed. It's a sad and dangerous co-opting that hurts the true practice of religion, for those within and without alike.

But it is particularly disturbing when Christianity is the thing being used to categorize someone else as "other", given that one of the radical aspects of Christianity when it appeared was its inclusion of literally everyone: Jew and Gentile, rich and poor, slave and free, men and women. So it's a particularly terrible perversion to use it to berate people for being different from you, when I see Jesus's teachings and life as a study in inclusion.

As pointed out, there's way more anger between the Christian denominations who fight over that particular church than between the Christians and the Muslims. They fight over things like which branch gets to brush which stairs... It's insane.

When I was studying in the West Bank, it was my experience that Christians and Muslims actually got along very well. In fact some of the reconciliation organizations I met with said Christians could be some of the best bridges because there are Israeli Christians and Palestinian Christians alike, and neither the Jews nor the Muslims bear them terrible resentment.

As a Christian, I was both allowed up onto the Temple Mount/Haram and at the Western Wall without any fuss. And for good measure, we were also welcome in Druze areas. I studied and stayed within the walls of the Old City, and there were several Muslim shopkeepers whom I'd stop in and see regularly (free tea!). One Muslim shopkeeper said he wanted to get to know visiting Christians to let us know that he considered us friends and that he believed we could coexist in peace.

So yeah, I had very good experiences with Muslims in the Holy Land.

 

Timmo I think it's really simple actually.

Some people choose a religion or system of faith because they find it compelling or meaningful. Some people choose a religion because it offers them security and an identity. If you're the latter, any challenge to that system becomes a challenge to your identity, a threat, and it must be dealt with accordingly.

The same lack of critical thinking or self awareness that leads to a person using religion as an emotional crutch or the only means by which they define themselves leads to the acceptance of fundamentalist thought.

 

My biggest gripe with that whole thing, in myself and in the church as a whole, is how tough it seems to follow what Jesus told us, that the world would know we are His disciples by how we love one another. It's in red in my Bible, Jesus spoke those words. It's SO SIMPLE, yet often enough it's the hardest thing to follow through. As Sarge put it, we try to focus on God and have Him continually work in us so that our todays are a little better than our yesterdays.

Re the "Why I Identify As a Christian," mostly because He just wouldn't let me go! I walked in darkness and was lost for a number of years in my teens, but on occasion after occasion, God moved mountains and placed situations in my life to remind me of His love and His redemptive power. Whether a friend at the right time, or an opportunity to serve that I never thought I'd get or be good at, He reminded me that my story remains the same as the Footprints in the Sand poem. (I've loved that poem for many years, and I relate to it very well.)

 

That's the story about how His disciples always travel in single file to hide their numbers, right?

I'm also fond of the version that says, "See where that long groove in the sand is? That's where I dragged you kicking and screaming."

 

So I decided last Sunday, kind of spur of the moment, to actually sit down and read all 4 gospels before Easter Sunday. And yesterday, I finished.

I was also keeping a googledoc, to list everything that Jesus actually taught (according to the 4 canonical gospels, anyways), which I'll organize and combine redundancies of later (right now it's at 73, and that's even with already combining a lot of repeats). But I have to say, about 90% of the actual teachings of Jesus in the gospels, I think progressive atheists would agree with. And the stuff that's directly about God, I think most progressive atheists would still see there's nothing authoritarian or malicious about them. That leaves only a couple things they might have trouble with, like no divorce except in cases of adultery, but even then Jesus later clarifies that when God's Kingdom comes no one will be married anymore. I'll share the list when I'm done organizing it.

For now, I think I'll attempt to finish the New Testament, while I'm on this roll.

But yeah, it's interesting to actually sit down and read all 4 gospels in one piece... not a couple sentences once a week. Each gospel is definitely distinct and has its own feel for the most part.
1. Matthew and Mark are very similar, with Mark just cutting back some of the teachings to put more focus on the narrative, and making a few minor changes.
2. Luke tries to present itself as a private investigator who went out and pieced together the eyewitness accounts.
3. While John is the most different of all, very wordy and repetitive, kind of bangs you over the head with the same point a million times, says things the other gospels don't but say it's central (particularly believing in Jesus), doesn't include some things all other gospels include, and has a completely different emphasis in time (definitely over the years) and place (mostly takes place in Jerusalem, and over multiple festivals) and the narrative itself is very different, but it does have some real inspirational gems of wisdom in it too and it does agree with the other gospels on some things in the narrative and of course in teachings.

Also... Happy Easter, everyone!