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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Beyond - Legends ?Unexpected? [L/M, Imperials]

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction- Before, Saga, and Beyond' started by Thrawn McEwok, Aug 10, 2006.

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  1. Corran_Fett

    Corran_Fett Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2005
    o_O

    Wait... Ah, I see. Little Thrawn and Father Quiet are having fun again. [face_laugh]

    This dialogue could be worth a own 'fic, lol! :p

    But, on the topic: (8-})


    Behind the obscuring mask of his helmet, Eclan Graven took his attention away from the data-feed that had begun scrolling down the side of his HUD, indicating the Imperial surveilance activity he'd been expecting, and rolled his eyes. He'd known that as long as the Inquisitor wasn't gagged, heavily sedated, or dead, he was going to be, well [i]inquisitive[/i], but this was getting ridiculous.

    "Inquisitor, I'm surprised," he responded evenly, "I don't normally go to such lengths to get a few questions answered, even from Jedi. You should be flattered that I'm taking these extra considerations for you." [/blockquote][hr]One of the Mandalorian commandos in the room, Jiriad, was getting impatient. [i]C'mon, Graven, you'll rather talk him to death than kicking him to afterlife physically.[/i]

    "You say it, Graven," he said to the other over their shared helmet comlink. "This is getting ridiculous - and boring. Go get the job done, [i]burc'ya[/i], we've got more vital tasks to attend to. There's no need to prove yourself to one of those whiny Imperial [i]hu'tuune[/i]. You were supposed to be the cold-blooded one."
    [hr]

    Oh, and [b]Thrawn[/b]... I might even be reading your story some time.... [face_whistling][face_tongue][face_blush] . No, but seriously, it's got to be worth reading when it spawns things like [i]that[/i]... :D

    [quote=Thrawn McEwok]*JARRING CHORD*

    [b]NOBODY[/b] expects the Imperial Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise![/quote]
    [face_hugs][face_peace] I can actually imagine Michael Palin saying that, although it's an additional syllable. [face_tongue]

     
  2. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    At least until one of the mods smacks us down.[face_whistling][face_blush]


    "Don't make me prove it to you," Graven muttered back. Even without the Force, he knew Tremaine's experience in reading humans, and other sentients, by their body language alone was vast. It was a subtle game that he had chosen now to play with him, and the last thing he needed was the Inquisitor taking advantage of his fellow Mandalorians becoming restless.[/blockquote][hr]
     
  3. TnTornado

    TnTornado Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2006

    "You say it, Graven," he said to the other over their shared helmet comlink. "This is getting ridiculous - and boring. Go get the job done, [i]burc'ya[/i], we've got more vital tasks to attend to. There's no need to prove yourself to one of those whiny Imperial [i]hu'tuune[/i]. You were supposed to be the cold-blooded one."[/quote][blockquote][hr]"Don't make me prove it to you," Graven muttered back. Even without the Force, he knew Tremaine's experience in reading humans, and other sentients, by their body language alone was vast. It was a subtle game that he had chosen now to play with him, and the last thing he needed was the Inquisitor taking advantage of his fellow Mandalorians becoming restless.[/blockquote][hr]

    Yet another Mandalorian smiled slyly under the helmet [i]is that a bit of nervousness in both of them at the game they are playing?[/i]

    "Take yout time Graven, this should be ahem, interesting"
    [hr]
    My own admittidly small, and very bad contribution.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Ha!

    (diabolical laughter, and diabolical acting)

    So Tremayne's goal, the one he was keeping up his sleeve, is only the reformation of the Jedi order. Really, I would expect nothing less from him.

    It's interesting how, as an Imperial Inquisitor, he is tasked with keeping order, but he understands the need for chaos as well. And he knows how to start it. He's realized, I think, that you can't force people to believe something. They'll rebel. But if you play your cards right, they'll come to believe a new idea in such a way that they'll think they did it on their own.

    Or, well, there's the quick like a lightsaber theory of rearranging someone's reality...

    And I was thinking that if Tremayne was not just Lord Vader's protege, but almost his son, to replace the child Vader thought was dead, Luke might have been his rival, had they met at the right time. Vader would, of course, prefer his biological son to his adopted one, and while Tremayne might understand that on one level, on another? In fact, under certain circumstances, in another reality, I can see these two crossing lightsabers.

    Moving on. I think that conversation at the Skywalker household, and the Jedi Academy in general, is going to start getting interesting. And I think this is a good thing, because nothing helps you understand and clarify your beliefs better than defending them.

    Ysanne continues to interest me. It seems clear that Tremayne is fond of her (though he doesn't seem to share Vader/Anakin's weakness of excessive attachment). It seems odd that an Imperial Inquisitor would help her get over her teenage boyfriend (though I imagine he was not touchy feely whilst doing it, and she wouldn't have expected that from him). That's because Bad Guys aren't supposed to be anything other than, well, Bad Guys. But it's clear Tremayne isn't your average Dark Force User. And he understands her, which is why he knows she'll be such a good weapon, without him having to do any heavy lifting. He's not her *real* father, but nonetheless, he was the closest she had to a parent for most of her life, and I think she appreciates that.
     
  5. leia_naberrie

    leia_naberrie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Ben could feel her uncertainty - like moonflitters in her stomach.

    Lovely little metaphor.



    She was going to do the thing the Jedi hated most: she was going to ask questions. She was going to challenge their assumptions.
    She was, quite simply, going to be herself.
    Tremaye grinned at his own reflection.


    I think Tremaye is brilliant. :D I can't wait for Ysanne to upset the apple chart back home with the Skywalkers. :D
     
  6. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    From you? Or from the Mandalorians? [face_thinking] :D

    Try "the brainwashing or breaking of Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade, the crippling of Jedi capability to defend against Imperial/Inquisition activities, and the destruction of the Galactic Alliance's moral and ideological foundations"... [face_thinking]

    All with just one relatively young, and relatively innocent, Inquisitor... :D

    Oh, aye - there are two ways to do this successfully; so subtly they don't notice, or so brutally you simply remove whatever was standing in your way... :D

    Or else combine the two approaches...

    On the other hand, Vader might end up dealing with Padmé's son like he did with Padmé. I think a lot of people underestimate just how ruthless Darth Vader is... the chain of events that led to him killing Palpatine and dying liberated isn't by any means the totality of the man's identity...

    [face_mischief]

    *nods* We'll see... if I ever write a sequel/continuation... [face_blush]

    Aye... Tremayne, in his own way, and even if he doesn't really realise it, cares about Ysanne. She's his Master's granddaughter, Vader's living legacy - actually, scratch that "cares": he loves her, unconditionally, and without ever even noticing it himself...

    :D

    And, on the question of "Bad Guys"...


    Tremayne gave Luke an odd half-smile, all cold on one side, but quirked with amusement on the other.

    "Bad guys? How charmingly naive." His grin broadened. "Jedi Skywalker, stop deluding yourself. It's unworthy of your father's memory, apart from anything else. There are no [i]good guys[/i] in this universe. Certainly not [i]you[/i]. How many millions have you killed over the years? Yavin? Operation Shadow Hand? The Yuuzhan Vong invasion?"

    "Luke!" Mara snapped - and it struck Luke as odd that she was talking to him, an
     
  7. Shadowen

    Shadowen Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 11, 1999
    Hmm.

    I don't buy it. Luke has proven extremely hard to provoke in recent years. If anything, Luke's weakness is his pride; trying to make him feel insecure wouldn't work. He figures that since the Jedi Order isn't behaving the way he thinks it should, he must issue an ultimatum--shape up or I will rein you in myself--and assumes the title of Grand Master (which not even Yoda did--he didn't have to). Every mistake Luke has made has been in the assumption that he can handle whatever's coming next. His saving grace is that he's usually right; so his weakness is at the same time his strength.

    You can't anger Luke by pointing out the supposed hypocrisy of his actions. He's too confident for that. The only way to get him angry is to openly threaten people he's close to, and it has to be a viable threat--I doubt Tremayne has anywhere near the strength in the Force that Luke does; Mara's like a female Rambo with a lightsaber; Leia's a full Jedi Knight by this point, which Tremayne never achieved; Jaina is a deadly warrior in her own right; and Jacen? You have to ask? Jacen would eat Tremayne alive and spit out the metal bits. The only weak points in the chain at this point are Ben, who's still young, and Han, who's not a Jedi (but who can still take care of himself). And now, yes, Ysanne, but I'm not certain which side she's on.

    The only other time I've seen his temper flare since Dark Empire is when Mara nettled him about his past relationships, and he snapped back about Lando.

    Plus, Mara's ex-Imperial; I'm quite sure that behind the scenes they've had long discussions about the morality of their actions during the war.
     
  8. Quiet_Mandalorian

    Quiet_Mandalorian Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2005
    That is the question, isn't it?[face_mischief] :p
     
  9. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Hmm. :D

    I notice you've sidestepped the question of whether Luke is actually right in what he's doing and how he's doing it, but in practical terms, I think you're right on most points, actually. [face_laugh] :D

    Tremayne isn't anything near as good a lightsaber swordsman as the other characters in this 'fic - Ysanne is better than him, and he knows it - but his chief weapons are words and ideas. That's part of why one aspect of this entire 'fic is an extended gesture in the direction of the Spanish Inquisition sketch...

    As you said about Farmboy: The only way to get him angry is to openly threaten people he's close to...

    So, let's deconstruct that "teaser" scene, with that in mind:


    "That's not true," Luke said, turning slowly to fix Tremayne with a cold, hard stare. "Stop doing that to my wife."

    ....

    "Your lies won't get to me," Luke whispered. "And nor will your swordplay." A small smile grazed Luke's lips, and he quirked an eyebrow at Tremayne.

    "Luke," Mara said - softly, behind him. She sounded worried.

    "It's okay," he said. "I can deal with this guy."

    ...

    "That is [i]it[/i]," Luke snapped, and in a single movement, his 'saber was in his hand, the green blade slashing down to hammer hard on Tremayne's.

    The Inquisitor blocked - it wasn't easy, Luke saw, and a grin twisted on his lips.[hr][/blockquote]

    Personally, I think Luke is maybe a little more stressed than he used to be (consider the "Dad? What's kriffing?" scene in [i]The Joiner King[/i]) but I tried to write him as a very hardened, very determined warrior here.

    Perhaps the mistake was writing this from Luke's point of view rather than someone else's (Ysanne's or Ben's? :-?); but I do think it's credible that Farmboy - for all his strength - could lose control of the situation...

    What's provoking him is the way that Tremayne is attacking Mara - mentally, psychologically. Luke - in a family situation of heightened emotion and stress - is responding very defensively, protecting his wife from this vicious Imperial guy who's thrust himself into their lives, and is now deliberately picking a fight with her, upsetting her...

    One place I'd disagree with you is the extent to which Luke and Mara have thoroughly dealt with the past. I'd argue that Mara [b]does[/b] have serious doubts about some of Luke's actions over the years
     
  10. Pandora

    Pandora Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Honestly? I'm not sure.


    Try "the brainwashing or breaking of Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade, the crippling of Jedi capability to defend against Imperial/Inquisition activities, and the destruction of the Galactic Alliance's moral and ideological foundations"...

    But of course.

    That's how I think he's going to reform the Jedi Order. After all, sometimes you just have to brainwash people for their own good, at least what one thinks is their own good. As for the Galactic Alliance? From what I've heard of the latest EU, they can destroy their own moral and ideological foundations without any outside help.

    On the other hand, Vader might end up dealing with Padmé's son like he did with Padmé. I think a lot of people underestimate just how ruthless Darth Vader is... the chain of events that led to him killing Palpatine and dying liberated isn't by any means the totality of the man's identity...

    Maybe.

    Here's where I was coming from: Once Vader knows that the child he believed dead is in fact alive and well and strong in the Force, he wants, almost needs, this son as his apprentice to carry on his legacy, which means the necessity of turning him. He wants to rule the galaxy together with Luke as a family dynasty. Note the word family. Somehow, I doubt there would be much room for another apprentice who is not a blood relation. But yeah, I could be way off here. It's just a thought.

    Now, Palaptine would have played Luke and Tremayne against each other and pushed them into being rivals, but I don't think Vader would. He's never struck me as the sort who has the time, patience, or inclination for mind games.

    All that said, I don't think Vader would let any paternal feelings for Luke affect how he does things. And if he had to deal with Luke sternly, he would do so.

    But I see I was right about Luke and Tremayne crossing lightsabers. Tremayne may lose that fight, but he's, as you said, proven that Luke is his father's son, and won the argument.

    And about "Bad Guys:"

    Tremayne gave Luke an odd half-smile, all cold on one side, but quirked with amusement on the other.

    "Bad guys? How charmingly naive."


    Tremayne, Tremayne, Tremayne. You're getting moral ambiguity stuck all over our nice, good vs. absolute evil here.

    I hope it was somewhat clear that I was referring to Bad Guys in my comment, with, well, a quirk of amusment. But sometimes I'm entirely too subtle. Really, I'm not much for the whole concept of Bad Guys with capitals, but more about people with different goals, all of whom believe they're in the right, who are unable to understand each other. That begs the question of what I'm doing on a Star Wars fanfiction board, but there you are.
     
  11. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    "Well, what on earth does that mean?"

    [face_whistling] [face_mischief] :D

    But of course.

    That's how I think he's going to reform the Jedi Order. After all, sometimes you just have to brainwash people for
    their own good, at least what one thinks is their own good. As for the Galactic Alliance? From what I've heard of the latest EU, they can destroy their own moral and ideological foundations without any outside help.

    Oh, yes; but this is a controlled detonation, I think: planned demolition, rather than simply the chaotic self-destruct of the Jedi imploding...

    Maybe.

    I based my own theory on the fact that Luke is Vader's biological child and his legacy. And yes, the fact that he *is* Padmé's son. No apprentice could compete with that. Unless of course, Padmé, who was Anakin's angel and goddess, means nothing to Darth Vader. Then, well, Vader would deal with Luke as he thought the situation warranted.


    We know that Vader could break and destroy Padmé; he could do the same to Luke... o_O

    But I see I was right about Luke and Tremayne crossing lightsabers. Tremayne may lose that fight, but he's, as you said, proven that Luke is his father's son, and won the argument.

    :D [face_dancing] I'm delighted it worked for you!! [face_dancing]

    And about "Bad Guys:"

    Tremayne gave Luke an odd half-smile, all cold on one side, but quirked with amusement on the other.

    "Bad guys? How charmingly naive."


    Tremayne, Tremayne, Tremayne. You're getting moral ambiguity stuck all over our nice, good vs. absolute evil here.

    I hoped it was somewhat clear that I was referring to Bad Guys in my comment, with, well, a quirk of amusment. But sometimes I'm entirely too subtle. Really, I'm not much for the whole concept of Bad Guys with capitals, but more about people with different goals, all of whom believe they're in the right, who are unable to understand each other. That begs the question of what I'm doing on a Star Wars fanfiction board, but there you are.


    Ah... I think I misread the sense of your comments slightly... [face_blush] :oops:

    It appears that we agree. :D :cool:

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
  12. Pandora

    Pandora Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2005
    We know that Vader could break and destroy Padmé; he could do the same to Luke...

    I don't doubt that.

    If Luke is Vader's son, as Tremayne proved, he is also Padmé's son. Even though he never had a chance to know her, he has many of her strengths and weaknesses. Namely, the tendency to see what is good in a person while being fatally blind to their flaws. That is how Vader would break and destroy him.

    Or maybe not.

    Anyway, I started all this because I could see Tremayne and Luke as rivals, under the right circumstances, or at least clashing. And I was right about that. I have to say, Tremayne knows how to lose a lightsaber fight with style.

    But I don't wish to clog up this thread anymore, so I'll step aside now.
     
  13. Thrawn McEwok

    Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    May 9, 2000
    Well, that's probably the sharpest analysis of Padmé I've ever seen... :D

    But Vader was trusting, too - he just wasn't forgiving... [face_thinking]

    And... well, apply this insight into Luke to his relationship with his father... o_O [face_thinking] :eek: :D

    But Luke also has his father's stubbornness - and probably Padmé's, too; Vader would try to bend him to his will, and when he didn't, he'd break him... I guess the question is how much he'd break...

    [face_thinking]

    *grins*

    Glad you're enjoying it! :cool: [face_dancing]

    No, that's quite all right. Your thoughts are good - thank you! :D

    "And now for something... completely different."

    - The Imperial Ewok
     
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