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Lit "Unlearn what you have learned" - The Jedi Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by BobaMatt, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Except - Ben isn't born till just over a year after Vader's death. Which suggests he wasn't conceived until about 3 months after the Battle of Endor.
     
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  2. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Yeah it happens in the RotJ DLC.
     
  3. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Oh thank Ashla he didn't. What a way to spit on George's previous works.
     
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  4. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Nothing about the Phantom Menace indicates that midi-chlorian count is necessary for Force sensitivity. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

    But it would probably open up a can of worms that would require more explanation than anyone would be comfortable receiving, yet at the same time would complain if we did not. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  5. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    I agree on the can of worms part. This is not the place for a midi-chlorian debate.

    I was chatting with a friend yesterday about how the Jedi restrain themselves from using their power and the Sith do not. Have we seen examples of this restraint in the universe? I can think of a few off hand but I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts.
     
  6. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Canon only or Legends also?
     
  7. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Both have some interesting examples. I'm reminded of Kit Fisto lecturing his old Padawan for using the Force to smash up battle droids. Excessive force really.

    "Those who have power should restrain themselves from using it."
     
  8. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Zahn invented this concept of a push-pull dialectic between using the Force and receiving visions (or being used by the Force, I guess). If you impose your will on the Force, you deafen yourself to the precognitive aspects of it.

    It colored the early paradigm of the NJO series because Stackpole used it in Dark Tide, but Luke had cast the idea off entirely by The Unifying Force, attributing it to his fear of the dark side.

    Black Fleet trilogy also had a similar premise with Luke, where he felt compelled to remove himself from the mundane world because his power was so great that he could easily impose his will on others with the Force. But his arc through that trilogy was that he ultimately rejected that mindset after seeing the Fallanassi, and being given a guilt stare by Chewbacca.
     
  9. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Dark Empire - the time Palpatine lose controll of his Force Storm and Luke and Leia's counter was to use Force Harmony. Also (before the retcone) so clone Palpatine burn out his clonebodys.

    And in TotJ we have King Ommin whose body had become decayed and brittle becouse of his dark side use.
     
  10. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    The quick time events were terrible.
    The movie seems to say that the midi-chlorians are how the Force talks to us. It's a pretty heavy implication.
    Ostensibly whenever the Jedi are using a lightsaber instead of Force powers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  11. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Midi-chlorians, as cellular organelles, wouldn't be inherited by Luke and Leia from Anakin. This would seem to indicate that if there's a causality between Force sensitivity and midi-chlorian count, it's backwards: being Force sensitive results in a high midi-chlorian count, not the other way around.

    This would also make sense: if an individual channels and produces more life Force, the midi-chlorians would find the host to be able to support more midi-chlorians.
     
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  12. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 3, 2005
    The films seem to suggest the opposite.
     
  13. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Or Lucas simply wasn't thinking it through too heavily. We are presumably meant to take Qui-Gon's explanation at face value, at least in general.

    It could be that one needs a strong presence in the Force AND the right kind of genetic makeup for midi-chlorians to proliferate.

    I would still like to think that people like Han and Finn demonstrate what a Force-strong non-sensitive look like.
     
  14. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 3, 2005
  15. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    Ummm. This guy.[​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
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  16. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Yeah, given she's identified as being "strong in the Force" in the AotC novel. It's that line that initially guided my thoughts, in this regard.

    No doubt but, as it says, he's honed his mind and body and is a deep believer in the Force.

    I'm more interested in the non-sensitives who seem to benefit passively without having done that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  17. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Because the Force has plans for them.
     
  18. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 10, 2005
    You know, he might not be a jedi, but I think he is my favorite portrayal of a jedi anyway.
     
  19. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Regarding the Force and heredity so in the OEU at least do it seems to work similar to magic heredity in Harry Potter = often the Force seems heredity but sometime the children to people strong in the Force are week in the Force while people who are week in the Force gets children that are strong in the Force.

    I really can't belive he lacks Force abilities with some of the stuff he's able to do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  20. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    Honestly, i think Force-sensitivity is a spectrum that everyone in the SWU is on. Every living thing has midi-chlorians, so they are speaking to everyone. The Jedi came to be looking for a particular range on that spectrum, for people for whom the midi-chlorian count or the voice of the Force was most clearly heard and that enabled them to really overtly use the Force.

    Whether they drew upon pre-existing religions to pool those people together to form the Jedi at the start, or they formed and trained just about anyone and eventually honed in on a specific range of people with particular capabilities is an open question. Nevertheless, they came to be focused exclusively on that upper end of the Force-sensitivity spectrum.

    Someone like Han goes into a Zen or flow state when he's flying, and gambling arguably, and as such he's touching and being guided by the Force. And the Force is probably responding to him very subtly and moving things to make happen what he needs to happen. Hence, dropping out of lightspeed at the perfect moment to ve inside Starkiller Base's shield and *not* smash into the surface. Chirrut is just doing that sort of thing more consciously. He's never going to be able to lift something through the Force, however.

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  21. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Absolutely, but I can't shake the impression that a "lucky" individual like Han has a stronger presence in the Force than, say, Coleman Trebor despite being "less sensitive" to it.

    Drop Han in front of Jango and he survives it. Not by deflecting the blaster bolts, or anything -- and maybe he still gets hit! -- but he survives it. His wagon is hitched to a stronger star.
     
  22. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 28, 2006
    I have no problems with that.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  23. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I had thought that in "The Disappeared" story arc in the final season of TCW, the Bardotta mystics were supposed to be strong in the Force in a way distinct from the Jedi, however when I looked at the Wookieepedia article last night it said they were Force sensitive but didn't let the Jedi take their children.

    Perhaps I'll watch those episodes again when I get a chance. My understanding was that they had strong life Force but that it was distinct from Force sensitivity. I therefore assumed this applied to people like Padme, Han, Chirrut, etc.

    And I just assumed Finn was a bad stormtrooper because he never misses his shots.
     
  24. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Is it? I mean Palpatine and Vader use the dark side to creat order while the Jedi don't seem to have any problem with chaos as long as it was not voilent

    I have more or less always taken it that the dark side cave is a vision cave that shows you the future* but only bad futures. It shows Luke as Vader becouse Luke could easily become a new Vader if he did not learn control, that my reading at least.

    * or similar in the Thrawn Trilogy it showed an alternative bad past
    I really want to know why it called to her now

    The blood test are not back jet so we still do not know if Mr. Force is the daddy or if Qui-Gon just made assumptions
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  25. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Interestingly, the dark side caves on Dagobah and Ahch-To seem to be primarily about self-knowledge. The one on Ahch-To has a literal mirror.

    [face_thinking]