"UNLIMITED POWER!" and so did Palpatine really have it?

It seems to me that Palpatine was a good instigator and manipulator, and it was true that he was extremely powerful with the dark side of the force, however, the rebellion gave birth and 'caused years of disharmony for the Empire. That was one of Palpatine's flaws, was that he couldn't control an population, unless by force, and so he knew this and built the death star. One of my favorite scenes in ROTS is when Mace Windu and Palpatine break the glass window and they are standing there fighting, with the wind going on about and then it appears to me that he takes a HUGE chance and lets Mace hit the lightsaber blade out of his hand and then cowers to the floor, anticipating that Anakin would enter; or, that maybe really wasn't that powerful, but just knew all the tricks of the dark side trade, and used them, as well as what he did best, manipulate. I think it is quite possible that Palpatine was not, or is not, the most powerful Sith, and lacked power himself - he didn't see Vader (or anticipate) that he would kill him in ROTJ. So I think his true strength was like playing a good game of chess, antipaticing the next move, manipulating and then moving in for the kill. Unlimited power, he had power, but he was a crafty politician and good actor. Just thought this would make for good discussion. I've watched Revenge of the Sith too many times to count in these past couple of weeks.

 

He still couldn't "cheat" death. Therefore, he did not have unlimited power. Besides, if he truly had unlimited power he wouldn't know what to do with himself. All he wants is power and if he had all of it, his purpose, as he sees it, would no longer exist.

 

I take that line as a cocky sort we on the rise now.

 

Anyone who could stand toe-to-toe with Mace Windu and Yoda has amazing ability.

However, I don't think he has "unlimited power". Anakin should have been able to figure that out pretty quickly when he goes from "only I can keep Padme alive" to "geez, only my master had that power, but I'm sure between the two of us, we can figure it out".

I really think Palps thought Anakin's "unlimited" potential and power in the Force was the key to unlocking eternal life.

 

Totally agree.

If he had unlimited power, and supposedly knew how to keep himself from dying (as he implied to Anakin), he wouldn't have needed Anakin as an apprentice...as I understand it.

 

Exactly.

 

I agree with the point you've made. The Sith are known to have arrogance when it comes to power. If you ever read over Darth Maul's journal it refers to many instances where Maul describes himself as invincible with the power of the Dark Side, he feels "all-powerful." Palpatine, quite possibly, is making a similar arrogant statement although I also believe this to be arrogance and not truth. I agree with what G_M posted, Palpatine does not have unlimited power, though he is powerful and manipulative.

 

When Palpatine screams "Power, Unlimited Power!" I never took it to mean he is refering to himself. I thought he was just refering to the dark side in general, which does give you more power than the light side, possibly unlimited power. I think Palpatine was the greatest Sith Lord, because he conquered the galaxy and converted Anakin Skywalker into a Sith Lord, but the honor of most powerful Sith Lord goes to Plagueis, who had a power even Palpatine didn't have.

 

Yes, that is it right there. Spot on.

 

Seeing as he lacked Hulkamania, the answer is an obvious no.

Seriously though, since Palpatine went down in Jedi, the answer is no. If Yoda hadn't been caught so off guard, he would have had more of a chance.

 

I agree that Sidious was referring to the Darkside in general, when shouting Power, unlimited power But i would have to disagree with Darth Plagueis being the most powerful sith ever. Is it not irony of the story that the Jedi discover a path to immortality after Anakin joins the sith hoping to find just that.

Being at peace, at one with the force rather than being filled with hate and so on. So i can't for the life of me figure how a sith lord could discover the same thing ( Immortality ). I know sidious states that he discovered a way to manipulate the midi-chlorians, but for all we know this is just speculation or just rubbish to feed Anakins imagination in order to turn him to the darkside. Remember Sidious knew about Anakins fears of Padme dying. Id imagine plagueis probably was very powerful, but were going by the word of a sith lord who by nature is likely to tell the odd lie...

 

Yeah, but remember Slash, Anakin wanted something that Force ghosts cannot help with. What he wants is something that is different from that. He wants to use this power on others, whereas becoming a Force ghost is for yourself.

 

Yep..

 

When Anakin cuts off Mace's arm, Palpatine feels that the last uncertain domino in his plan has fallen perfectly. He is confident that, after this point, he will be able to convert anakin and declare himself emperor.

So when he says "unlimited power" he is referring to unlimited power in the galaxy. As emperor, he can do whatever he wants: build death stars, enslave people, tax people, punish people, rewrite laws, have harems, whatever. That is the unlimited power he has.

He is not referring to unlimited power in the Force. If he had had it, he would be a god.

And clearly he is not a god, because he falls down the hole.

 

Your incorrect. He says to Jedi Master Mace Windu "Power, unlimited power!" as he's blasting him with Force lightning. It's a comment on the dark side of the Force, not his political agenda. It's a culmination, really. Palpatine finally gets to release the ulimate force of the dark side at Mace. He's got the Sith eyes going, and he gives Mace everything he's got.

 

How do you know that I am incorrect? Can you read Palpatine's mind?

My interpretation is just as valid as yours.

Also, he clearly does not have unlimited power in the force, because he falls down the hole.

 

With the force already out of balance, and the Republic on the brink of an Empire, the fall of Anakin to the darkside does indeed bring what a Sith Lord would consider "unlimited power" to bear.

The Jedi are soon to be exterminated and the only one that could have stopped it is now squarely behind it.

And with Anakin's fall and the Jedi Order's demise, who is there to stop Palpatine from attaining his seat as Emperor?

Game, set, match.

Sidious may not have attained unlimited power through the force by Anakin's fall but he certainly gained the unlimited political power by the endgame of RotS.

And with both Anakin and the Jedi Archive at his disposal, the thought of unlimited power through the force was not an unrealistic thought to venture upon (for a Sith).

 

Palpatine isn't saying that HE has unlimited power. Of course he doesn't, he tells Anakin minutes later that he doesn't have the power to cheat death. He's saying that the dark side offers unlimited power. That the light side doesn't compare to the power of the dark side.

Why would he being gloating to Mace at that point that he will have unlimited power as a dictator? As far as Mace and the Jedi were concerned, Palpatine was already a dictator, weilding unlimited policitcal power. Palpatine says "Power, unlimited power!" to Mace that hits much closer to home. He's telling him where the real power lays, with the dark side. Not with the "dogmatic, narrow view" of the Jedi's Force.


Edit: your also doing a diservice to Palpatine. Just because Palpatine got thrown overboard, doesn't mean that he nearly unlimited power by RotJ. Darth Plagueis, the one Sith Lord that found a way to cheat death, was killed in his sleep. Powerful people can still die.

 

If Palpatine is speaking about the unlimited potential for power that comes from the darkside, why is he so excited about it? Wouldn't he have known for a long time that unlimited power comes from the darkside?

What makes you think he is gloating to Mace? I think he is just exclaiming, excited that everything is happening as he has forseen. I do not think he is addressing anyone in particular.

Why would he be telling Mace about he unlimited potential for power of the darkside? Who cares? It is not as if he defeated Mace with his incredible dark side powers. anakin surpise attacked him.

My point is not that Palpatine wasn't powerful. We all know he is. My point is that people with unlimited power (from the darkside or any side) do not die.

"Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong." Yoda, speaking about his inability to avoid death, in rotj.

 

I don't know if I would use the word excited, but I'd certainly say he was enthusistic. Of course Palps knows what the dark side offers. He's telling Mace, though. He's telling a Jedi that the dark side has unlimited power. In effect saying they serve the wrong side of the Force.

He's talking to Mace, but mostly to the Jedi as a whole. Palpatine had to sit side by side and work with Jedi for years on end. He's sick of it. Palpatine is sadistic. He's taking pure enjoyment in the fact that Mace is being elecrocuted. Palpatine is absolutely enjoying himself there.

Mace cares. He's about to get blown out a window with that power. He's letting Mace know where real power comes from. Yes, Anakin cut off his hand, but Palpatine finished the job with a strong dose of Force lightning.

Everyone dies. Sith are greedy and don't want to die. They want to live forever. Plagueis a Sith Lord that had the power to cheat death. But he died. He the closest person you could say to having unlimited power. But he died. No matter how powerful you are, you die. Anakin Skywalker could have become the most powerful Force user in the history of the galaxy. But you know what? He would have died sooner or later.

 

the topic of this thread is whether or not Palpatine had unlimited power, not whether the darkside offers an individual unlimited power.

If the darkside does offer unlimited power, Palpatine had not accessed it.

He did however have unlimited power in empire. So that is the answer. Anyone disagree?

as for you, LordVader66, I disagree with your interpretation of the scene we have been discussing. I have stated my reasons above.

 

I agree for the most part, we'll just have to wait and see if Plagueis actually knew what Palpy said he did...

Back on topic:

IMO, what Palpatine was implying is that a Sith has unlimited power at their fingertips, just not in the same physical sense as the lightning he summoned. What Sidious said about power, was more like a metaphorical explanation. Later, in Dark Lord, Sidious tells Vader that anything is his, all he just has to decide is to take it, no matter the cost.

 

I mean, really, Mace had battled Palpatine to a standstill.

Doesn't seem like unlimited power to me. Anakin decides who will be the victor: Mace or Palps.


I should think the difference between the Sith and Jedi viewpoints on life and death is that the Jedi look to eternal life ("luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"), while the Sith look to cheating death and extending life.

 

Plagueis did not achieve the power to "cheat death". If he had, do you really think Palpatine would have killed him before learning the secret? And then Palpatine spends the next 45 years fruitlessly trying to unlock the power, only to be killed?

Palpatine never said that Plagueis had the power to cheat death.

 

I've seen this argued before. It's very presumptive. Do you know the exact circumstances of Plagueis's murder? All we know is that he was killed in his sleep. What if Palpatine had learned everything from Plagueis except this power because Plagueis had refused to teach it to him? Possibly Plagueis knew teaching this power to Palpatine would be the end of his own life. So he refused, Palpatine realized that he would never learn the secret from Plagueis so he killed him and attempted to learn the power on his own. In the EU, by RotJ has picked up on a similar power.

Palpatine says Plagueis could create life and help save others from death. Sounds like he had the power to me.