ST Unpacking the philosophy and inspirations of Episode VIII

I really like the exploration on perception and mistakes in life in this film. So much of what Johnson did is built around how each character handles a psychological setback or mistake that they regret or soon will. And highlighting how 2 people can see the same incident from very different perspectives is very thought-provoking to me. Most popcorn movies don’t dig deep into these kids of concepts. Makes Star Wars a cut above.

 

I was pretty conflicted leaving the theatre after watching TLJ for a variety of reasons. After repeated viewings, I feel a lot better about the film.


TLJ's themes are consistently stressed throughout the story:

• maintaining Hope
• persevering through Failure

The themes are employed to achieve TLJ's goal, and the goal of the ST in general, which is ultimately:

• democratizing the Force

On the themes, the word "hope" was mentioned in the opening crawl, and discussed by both heroes and villains throughout every act of the film. The importance of the concept really is the driving behind the whole story, and nothing could be more Star Wars-y that that. It's central to the story that I wouldn't be surprised if the word HOPE appeared in the title of IX in some way.

Perseverance through adversity and failure is larger message as illustrated through the character narratives of Luke and the classic trilogy characters in general. Life didn't go as planned. A victory at Endor didn't mean "happily ever after." Even the most powerful and wise in the GFFA still struggled and failed, and they had to cope with their own disappointments and personal setbacks if Hope was to survive. Yoda's brief lessons about the importance of Failure was a brilliantly constructed scene.

Luke's death was the culmination of his defeat over Failure. He didn't die from exhaustion, but he moved into the next phase of existence after he achieved his last mission or final purpose. He said he went to the island to die, and he did. His master told him he couldn't afford to lose Rey, so he didn't. Ultimately, Luke defeated Failure and preserved Hope.

On the goal of democratizing the Force, TLJ seems more focused on pointing the entire saga in a new direction that serving as a sequel to TFA. People might disagree with this move, but it was clearly made and well executed to meet that objective. And I now think the broader goal of the Sequel Trilogy was to use the OT characters to undo the PT rules and boundaries.



The creators deem this necessary to continue telling new and interesting SW stories. Simply put, they didn't like the how Jedi were identified and trained, how the Jedi Order existed in the late Republican period, or how Jedi interacted with the public and one another. These creators are establishing a new set of rules and boundaries for the GFFA in which the Force is more accessible to a greater amount of people without the institutional necessities established in the PT.

This dramatically expands the number of storytelling possibilities and decentralizes the Force away from a powerful Council. New trilogies and stories not focused on the Skywalker family are now much more possible.


I don't think TLJ is as good as ESB -not at all - but I do think TLJ is the most significant film for the franchise since ESB because of how many foundational elements of the saga were changed or subverted. It's a radical break from the preconceived template or structure of SW films. It leaves us unnerved and challenges the audience in a way that TFA didn't really attempt and was not possible in the PT.

And it's a beautiful film to top it off. Luke's death was perfection.

But the philosophical themes were clearly stressed and effectively executed to achieve the goals of the film and the new trilogy more broadly.

 

Lucas on Celebration told the audience how the original Star Wars was meant to serve as a guidance for those 12 years old. It had a few lessons about what they would soon be exposed to, and a few guidances on how to behave on the adventure that would soon begin.

Luke's journey mimics the journey of a teenager who is scared and unsure of the adult world ahead, and its decisions and dangers.

For TLJ, the messages are for adults. Learn from your mistakes, overcome your regrets, restore trust in life, recover the hope. Do not try to save the world by yourself, trust others, listen before you speak, think before doing something that could harm you in the future... many lessons.

 

If the term "unpack" is never used again it will be too soon
Unless youre talking about a suitcase, of course

 

Here is a pretty nice article about TLJ main themes, specially The Past.
Link: https://doogsmodels.com/2017/12/21/the-last-jedi/

 

Lol at Chewbacca being a great Father Figure to Rey. I'd never really considered that he's sort of taken on more of his own mentorship/support role like that to her before. Interesting.

 

Great thread. I'm a sucker for deconstructing movies and literature and I can see film students peeling the layers back for decades. I can also see exactly why it has divided fandom. In a way, it's an experimental film. Whether the SW saga is the best place for LFL to start experimenting with formats and lore is questionable. Maybe it's better to do that in the standalone films. But it's a brave decision and one that I appreciated anyway!

 

It definitely feels experimental in the Luke Arc in a way. Especially with the different perspectives of that fateful night. I said this earlier but if this movie wasn't about a Jedi and was instead about an important retired Military general who won WWII, and it took place on an American farm, instead of an island, and it was about an issue this retired general had to come to terms with, and the real life equivalents of Rey, R2, Chewie, family, and Yoda helping this man reconnect to the world at large and overcoming his guilt and denial, it would be up for awards as a character-driven drama.

 

perfectly said.

 

I am very interested in the symbolism of the mirror scene. Together with her constant mentions of having seen a lot of places she has never been before, intrigues me very much.

 

Agreed. Johhson’s art house approach connected brilliantly with film geeks and critics but some of the deeper themes and nuance aren’t tailor made for mass appeal.

 

Eh, what's this whole deal about "democratizing" the Force? Rey's parents were "nobodies", okay sure, wasn't that also true of just about every single member of the old Jedi Order? Jedi weren't supposed to form romantic relationships or have children, so where do the Force-sensitive children come from? The muggles, the nobodies. So if Rey's parents are nobodies, that's not a big departure from established precedent.

 

I think it's more that most of the popular rumors of lineage involved OT bloodlines and also that it's not really clear if many of the PT-era Jedi also came from noble families of past Jedi or not. At least not on screen beyond Anakin. It's explored in Legends and new EU but up on screen it was still a little grey for a lot of people.

 

More specifically to Rey and Ben, there’s a lot of known psychological issues being explored.

There are 5 key aspects to understanding the psychology of the Rey and Ben Solo relationship.

1) Known issues and risk factors following abandonment.http://hamrah.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Factors-Leading-to-Codependency-Hamrah.jpg

2) Common manipulation techniques as employed by Ben Solo to lure her to the Dark Side. https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-605fd2d5aad268ee7035fb473de6e814

3) Co-dependency being a common phenomenon among children who were abandoned or saw their parents with addictions issues. https://image.slidesharecdn.com/co-...ion-recovery-process-18-638.jpg?cb=1489510297

4) Jungian philosophy related to denial, the shadow and the meeting of Light and Dark and balance. http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures...ubstances-if-there-is-any-carl-jung-97830.jpg

5) Ben / Rey / Luke triangulation:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(psychology)?wprov=sfti1

 

The messages of this trilogy go beyond the standard good vs evil.

I remember that when the fandom asked for darker SW, most where thinking along the lines of more evil stuff happening.

These messages being presented in the ST are much more elaborate and complex. Darker, in a way.

 

OMG, as a Philosophy graduate i absolutely applaud this post by the OP. Beautifully explained and I couldn't agree more. I have said from day 1 that TLJ is one of the most intelligent installments to the franchise (ESB aswell), in fact a lot of the critics have said that too. The use of nuance, subtext and symbolism is beautiful. Don't even get me started on the Freudian influence which Pablo and RJ have tweeted about! Wonderful post OP.

 

By all means, DO get started. That’s what this thread is for! ;-)

And I agree... TLJ is not only one of the biggest mind trips of all of Star Wars but indeed many blockbusters in recent memory. On the Matrix really comes to mind, along with some aspects of LOTR and perhaps a little bit in Doctor Strange related to purpose and ego.

 

I do want to discuss Freudian imagery, but um i don't think its family friendly (for this forum), if you get what I mean . However Lucasfilm and RJ did joke about it on twitter and I/others have speculated where the imagery was used. RJ has said repeatedly Kylo and Rey are transitioning from adolescense to adulthood. Think the shape of the cave/jedi tree entrance, Kylo wiping his mouth and finding water on his palms. Just a few examples!

 

I'm convinced there's more to the Rey parentage thing, and with Rian basically saying, yeah, it's true what the movie conveys, her parents are "nobody." I think it's a bit tongue-in-cheeck because I also believe that she's a living manifestation of the Force itself. I think when she talks about how there's something inside of her that has always been there, and her seeming grasp of so many things so quickly, of course it's explainable as just "she's very strong with the Force," because yes she is, but I think there might be something more to it. I think either she is truly a nobody who had two drunkard parents AND then the Force chose her, to act through her, or that she was in some sense created by the Force.

The Force is both a controlling "force" and a controllable force, and since it seeks to attain balance, I think it can do that in ways that influence the world around. For instance, I think the Force acted in making Chirrut able to walk through a bunch of laser fire without being hit. The Force in a way senses important times, important situations, and it doesn't directly intervene but it intervenes through the actions of people. Since everyone is at least slightly Force sensitive, even if they can't do much with it, it's entirely within the reading we have to say that instances like Chirrut were not really "miracles" or "just lucky," but manifestations of the power of the Force. I think the will of the Force can be opposed but only by twisting the Force itself, so for instance if Darth Vader was standing there, he'd be able to kill Chirrut no matter what the Force "wants," because he's able to warp its powers to his own ends.

"Powerful light, powerful darkness" Luke says to Rey. I think with the rise of the Dark Side again, as Snoke says, there was the rise of a balancing force, which is Rey, the light side's counter-response. Free will exists within those competing forces, but I certainly think there's more going now with Rey than meets the eye.

One way or another, I would certainly think it would add to the mythology and to the sequel trilogy if Episode IX speaks a bit more about what the Awakening is, or whether Rey is an embodiment of the Force, because my interpretation is vague right now that basically an Awakening might mean the Force "activates" in a certain individual, like Rey, who suddenly is flush with power she barely knew she had.

 

Can't we pretty much say that for just about every single Force-user that's significantly more powerful than their peers? Revan, Anakin, Luke, Rey...maybe the way to look at the Chosen One prophecy is not that it's a single individual, but rather recurring individuals who just pop up on the scene and have the power to shape events greatly for better or for ill.

 

Is this rising cyclical and that was why Luke was so disheartened? Can sustained balance ever be achieved? Oh, what I would give for even just a few minutes to read the Jedi Texts. I really hope the novelisation will afford us more insight.

 

I think that’s one of the smarter aspects of the notion that Darkness rises and Light to meet it. Historically, we know that to be true. We don’t know when or how but Light rises from somewhere. It finds a conduit and that individual meets Darkness.

Anakin story was especially unique because of how strong and dangerous and organized Palpatine was. The Light needed drastic counter measures for such a Force. So, he was the chosen one but to a certain extent there will always be a new chosen one who rises to meet the Darkness. Over and over it goes as new Dark masters rise.

 

Certainly which is why I like the movie as a movie when it's looked at and separated from Star Wars.