Unpaid labour for the unemployed??

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by moosemousse, Nov 7, 2010.

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  1. moosemousse CR - FF:UK South

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    Oct 3, 2004
    star 6
    Just saw this on the new that the government was planning to force people into unpaid labour or lose three months of their allowance if the won't do it. The real kicker is that they want the unemployed to do menial work for up to thirty hours a week.

    Thirty hours a week at JSA rates? Are they having a giraffe?

    I get £65 a week and doing 30 hours would be the equivalent of working for £2.20 an hour!

    I might be over reacting a bit, but that's just not on!

    If they want me to do that work for 30 hours a week they should call it a job and give me wages to suit! Knowing my luck I'd probably end up in a kitchen or doing a 'women's job' or some such.
  2. Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2002
    star 6
    I think it's great. Yes there are some people who genuinely want to work and have had bad luck recently, but there are a lot of people who are stuck on the dole that make no effort in trying to get a job. This way they get used to doing the work and establish a work ethic.

    And they can learn that getting a job isn't so bad after all.
  3. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I do 4 days of work a week of which 2 is unpaid voluntary work. I like it but I wouldn't manage without my paid work to cover it.
    I do think it is good to get people working, but forcing them to do that many hours seems a little unfair. If you aren't paid you have no obligation to stay, as a volunteer I reserve the right to turn up for one hour and go home if I want to.

    I'm also not sure how it will get people into paid work. A lot of places know they can run on unpaid workers and so will avoid recuiting paid staff.
  4. firesaber Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2006
    star 3
    How does the UK unemployment system work? Is it completely paid for by the government or is it paid for/funded by taxes you may have already contributed? In other words, are they asking you to work for a benefit which you have already paid into or are they asking you to just simply work for the wages?

    Maybe they are trying to avoid what happens in the states. Some people will stay on it for as long as they possibly can and not actively puruse employment.
  5. moosemousse CR - FF:UK South

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    Oct 3, 2004
    star 6
    It would be a good idea if it wasn't unpaid labour. There was also mention on the news the work being done could be the same as prison labourers and criminals who have to work of their sentence with community service. It sounds a lot like criminalising the unemployed.
  6. Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2002
    star 6
    Its not necessarily unpaid labour. If they're doing this work then they'll be on jobseekers' allowance/new deal. So they're working for their money. And this means that they can actively get up and do things, establish the aforementioned work ethic, and the routine of getting up to go to work, and put them in the proper mindset of getting themselves into work.
  7. Twinky_Stryder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2003
    star 4
    Ahhhhhh Jobseeker's.

    I remember when I first went in to make my claim. They pretty much said to me point blank "we're not here to help you".
  8. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    May 25, 2002
    star 9
    My local one wasn't too bad when I was getting Jobseekers in 2005. But the jobs they were coming up for me were all minimum wage admin-type jobs and I had been a Database Administrator on around 40k. Needless to say I was unimpressed at that. They did seem like they cared though. (Maybe I was just lucky in the people that I saw.)
  9. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Some of the people I volunteer with only do one day a week because they say if they worked more than that they would have Jobseeker's Allowance taken away even though they aren't actually being paid to work.

    I will never get a job that pays very much, such is the field I am qualified in, but if you enjoy a job it doesn't realy matter what you get paid for it as long as you can survive on the wages.
  10. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    May 25, 2002
    star 9
    Yeah, I don't agree with that. I think their thinking is that if you are volunteering it means you're not job hunting. I would think that if you are giving back something by volunteering then it should be allowed.
  11. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Whereas picking up litter for 30 hours a week gives you loads more time for job hunting :p

    I'd love to hear what the European courts think about this.
  12. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. Spend 30 hours a week at below minimum wage and jobhunting will be low on the radar.
  13. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    It isn't for very long though, it's not like they're making people do it all the time.
    A lot of people these days seem to want something for nothing, they should realise things don't work that way. Maybe they wouldn't take the Welfare State for granted if they realised how hard some people work to provide money for welfare.
  14. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Richie, I don't think anyone would disagree with you at all there. But is forcing people who have broken no laws to work for 30 hours a week for £65 the answer?

    And what about the people who would normally do those jobs? What about the gardeners and the trashmen? Will they get laid off so that others can do their jobs for them at a fraction of the cost?

    Having both worked for the government, and been paid by the state on benefits, I can see where the problem really lies, and that's with the system, not with the people. This is just another example of the government passing the buck. I'm unemployed and am looking for work. I've been out of work for many years which goes against me as my CVs are rejected because of that. I've taken the ECDL this year (funded my the government) to get a piece of paper which says I know how to use a computer, which I know anyway. But that hasn't helped in the slightest. Countless jobs applied for, and not one interview.

    I even got rejected by McDonalds as presumably I'm either too old or overqualified.

    There is a huge public outcry against people who claim benefits, mostly down to misinformation and prejudice. This latest battlecry from the government only serves to pander to those who buy into that. It won't work and is doomed to failure. Treat the symptoms, not the causes.
  15. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    The system does indeed need changing and I hope the government will do it properly.

    I don't think anyone will lose a job over this, it's only a for a small part of the year and companies will still need staff for the rest of the time and to teach those who are on the working scheme.
  16. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    May 25, 2002
    star 9
    Getting rejected by McDonalds has to really hurt. :(
  17. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    I've been unemployed 15 months now. It's bad enough they sent me on this New Deal 13 week course (apparently for placements, but I did 3 weeks in Scope then got taken off) which was 30 hours a week jobsearching. If anything it makes you less inclined to work.

    I've had quite a lot of interviews but not passed a single one. Did they offer me help with interview techniques? Nope.

    I've been screwed over twice now on Future Jobs Fund (first time company took me on, had me for three days, didn't pay me and didn't keep me on; this past week I filled out a ridiculously massive application form for the local council because I was told the Job Centre would book me an interview. When they finally get back to me, they tell me they've "withdrawn me" from the running). I swear the Jobcentre's doing more to contribute to the high numbers of unemployment than anything else. There's no support, no checks. It's not surprising people go in there and take advantage. The whole system is a farce, and this new universal benefit won't make things better.

    The whole 30 hours a week forced labour camp crap leaves you no time for actual jobhunting. You throw someone like me on a building site and I'd probably die within the first 3 days.
  18. Happy Ninja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2000
    star 6
    Hey, look whose back for a quick posting! :D

    I have to admit, I'm split on the debate.

    Now, for those that know me, you know one of my biggest hatreds...and I don't mean that in a general dislike kind of way, but I mean a pure, "I'm gonna go Adolf Hitler on your ass!", kind of hatred, is the dole-scrounging, thieving little ****, chav-scum money grubbing gitbag, that quite frankly doesn't deserve the privilege of breathing and/or walking this land. Now, I see these people all day, every day; and I know for a fact, like you can see it in their eyes, that they have ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of getting a job, or contributing anything productive to society.

    To these people, making them work for their benefits, is a fantastic idea! It's about time that they contributed to this country instead of the take, take, take, attitude they have.

    However, you have the flip-side of the coin. Not everyone on JSA is workshy. Take my fiancée, for example. She's been unemployed for 13 weeks now, and was denied JSA because they said that she had not paid enough contributions in the last two tax-years (that's rubbish, but that's another story all together), and because I work full-time. She still signs on, because the government do pay her stamp duty.

    Yet, through all this, she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, and she tries, to get a job - yet, nothing! She keeps a log of all the jobs she has applied for, and has almost filled an entire notebook. And yet, through all this, she still has to turn up every fortnight (now weekly) to sign on.

    Now, I work. But I barely have enough to pay the bills every month, and I've applied for assistance, but I get nothing. So, I have to struggle. I've had to borrow money just to make sure I stay on top.

    Now, I ask you this...do you think it is fair to make her work in some meanial job for £60 a week, where, if she is there five days a week, do you think she will have time to attend interviews? Not me!

    Added to the fact that she goes to sign on, and they give you their patronising little speech, and generally treat you like scum.

    Here's a couple of examples - my uncle was made redundant - worked every day of his life from the age of 16, and did it with a smile on his face. He goes to sign on, and on his initial assesment, he's sitting at the desk, when he hears in the booth next to him, the advisor telling this person who has just arrived in the country, about all the benefits he will get. "You will get this, and this, and this, and this...etc", she says to him. My uncle turns to his advisor, and asked, "Can I get what he's getting" - and this is the response he got..."No, because you're the wrong colour!!!" :mad:

    Can you believe that ****!

    Another time he went to sign on, he turns up early, and walks up to the woman behind the desk - she looks up, and says "Why are you so ******* late?!?" - stunned, he said, "I think you'll find that I'm five ******* minutes EARLY!!!" :mad:

    It's a good thing it wasn't me, otherwise, I would have just stabbed her to death!

    Now, does that sound like a service that is there to help people? No wonder so many people are so demoralised these days!
  19. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    Jobseekers are useless, as are Jobcentres. I got my work by handing in CVs everywhere, all the jobcentre did was point my to one of their computers which are useless.

    The system needs an overhaul, which is what the government wants to do. But they need to make it easier for people in need to get help.
  20. Lord_Ogli Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2001
    star 4
    Not as much as getting accepted [face_skull]
  21. Darth_Asabrush Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2000
    star 5
    Quite frankly I think it's a good idea to "ask" job seekers to do unpaid work until they find a job.
  22. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    There are plenty of people willing to volunteer, I myself do it although I have a paying job to cover it.

    Problem is for some reason Jobseekers people seem to take your JSA away if you do unpaid work for beyond a certain number of hours a week. How is someone with no job going to survive if you take away their only source of income? Given Cameron's "Big Society" thing, shouldn't the government be encouraging more people to volunteer?
  23. SCOTSSITHLORD Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 2
    I don't think it's really about helping people back into work, for one thing there's practically no jobs for them to go to, and in areas of high unemployment, the economic outlook is getting grimmer all the time.
    The real motive for this move is a/it's a populist measure - you won't lose any votes by bashing the unemployed and b/ to save money, because whilst people are disallowed or sanctioned from JSA, they generally have to claim hardship allowance, which is 35 quid a week (I think). The govt are probably working on the basis that a fair few folk who fall under this scheme will miss days at work or simply refuse to work full-time for bru' money which will mean sanctioning them all, and cutting their money by half.
    As for the DWP not really being helpful I can see it from both sides. A long time ago I had to sign on and found it difficult to get a job, and was hampered by being over-qualified for a lot of the posts that did come up. The Job Centre staff were generally helpful and pleasant, but not really much practical use, and as for the Job Club, all I can say is that The League of Gentlemen had that one down to a tee.
    I have a lot of sympathy for Job Centre staff now because they themselves have been cut back to the bone with huge redundancies in their section, and at a time when their workload is increasing, so it must be almost impossible for anyone working there to really spend any time on an individual basis to help a Job Seeker back into work.
  24. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Games Mod

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    star 9
    When I was signed on (2005ish) my local JC admitted to me they'd be of no help with finding a job in my field (IT software/database administration). So other than the money and the fact they had to sign my form for mortgage insurance they were pretty much useless. When I did find a job it was a contract position through an agency's online ad.
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