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Lit Unpopular EU opinions

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Allana_Rey, Sep 14, 2012.

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  1. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I agree with your main point, but Luke's had a genetic legacy since TLC - that ship sailed the second they made Leia his sister.
     
  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    A legacy is usually defined by lineal descendants, not collateral lines.

    - a tip from your dynastic expert
     
  3. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    Just one of the many awesome things from the Black Fleet Crisis that the rest of the EU never bothered to make real was Luke's decision to make Leia's kids his legacy. "I'm the Jedi uncle you're looking for."
     
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    The EU's done its best to do quite the opposite, actually :p

    But what's that famous quote?

    "Old Jedi never die... they just fade away."
     
  5. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I didn't mind him either
     
  6. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    TFU 2 novel had Ackbar. 'Nuff said.

    Funnily enough those scenes on Mon Cal were the only part of the entire TFU franchise to be mentioned in the Warfare guide.
     
    Dr. Steve Brule and Esg like this.
  7. EECHUUTA

    EECHUUTA Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2007
    CooperTFN

    I know that, definitely. What I meant is that Luke didn't need to have any kids in order to have a lasting effect on the galaxy. Most authors think that making a 'good-side' character have kids automatically gives him a legacy, even though that is contra-indicted by the many Sith that manage to influence the galaxy long after any natural spawned descendents would have passed on. Their legacy lies in their influence, not their loins.

    Not only that, but needing to generate an automatic descendant often just proves that the value lies with the surname, not the character themselves. It's why I hate Jedi family 'dynasties.' For example, I hated that they made Reven have kids, because kids are a lazy man's way of 'deepening' a character. The descendants aren't notable in any way other then being descended from X, this doesn't make them good in any such way.
    And this is what happened to Luke's. He (Ben) is constrained by being a Skywalker. His main value is generating a descendant, not in any thing he does. He can't die young, he has an automatic character shield (until he spawns) and then thereafter, his life might be forfeit. He must have a girlfriend or wife, and she must be the right species. He's limited. Same with Jaina. She can't opt out of the whole motherhood thing, her value ultimately lies in her womb since she must have a baby to 'keep up the name.'
     
  8. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Again, I was agreeing with you. :p

    And Jello - legacies don't "usually" involve the Force. Though I do wonder whether the Legacy comics would still have happened if they hadn't been able to call the main guy Skywalker...
     
  9. stung4ever

    stung4ever Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2002
    We need more KJA superweapon books.
     
  10. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Oh, Iiked him as a character too - much to my surprise. I had many problems with the story of TFU, but Starkiller's personality proved to be something of an unexpected highpoint - I was expecting a standard, wise cracking action game protagonist, but there was something charmingly dorky about him.

    Well, in the first game anyway. In the second his utter obsession with Juno at the expense of all else was kind of annoying.

    Very true.....

    And more than a little depressing, come to think of it.
     
  11. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    KILL IT!! KILL IT!!!!
     
  12. imiller

    imiller Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Better? :p
     
  13. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    • I like the premise and general story of TFU/TFU2. TFU is a healthy balance between the pedestrian Force use seen in the PT/OT and the truly ridiculous, over-the-top nonsense we see in DE/TOTJ/KoTOR/TOR/anything-that-involves-Karpyshyn (e.g., Force storms, Force drains, flight?, nigh-invulnerability). Plus TFU2 made Vader a Machiavellian badass again.
    • TOR/Legacy disinterest me for their blatant rehash of the films' plot & recycled narratives, plus how unnecessarily close in time the latter is to the film era. Why not a thousand years instead of 100?
    • I love Stover and Luceno (my two favorite recurring authors in the SW universe), but the former waxes poetic far too often and the latter's prose is often pretentious.
    • Sean Stewart's Yoda: Dark Rendezvous captures the very best of Stover and Luceno and is CRIMINALLY(!) underrated; why he isn't a recurring presence in the SW literary world is beyond me.
    • Tim Zahn is overrated; his works are saturated with rampant minimalism, favoritism (Mara, Karrde & Thrawn in particular), and out of character depictions of Vader and Sidious.
    • I love the Machiavellian!Luke we see in some of Denning's works.
    • I like the premise of LOTF: a truly intimate, continuous examination of Jacen's fall; I loathe the execution.
    • The ONLY things that Karen Traviss has ever done right in the EU was her depiction of Mara and Lumiya as two dangerously badass ladies; her Mandalorians suck; TCW does it better, by far.
     
  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    That isn't an unpopular opinion, it's simply the truth.
     
    The_Forgotten_Jedi and Robimus like this.
  15. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I get the impression that they'd be happy for Sean Stewart to do more, but he's been busy with his own stuff. It's certainly not that he isn't wanted.
     
  16. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It was not as much as a rehash as some of KOTOR
     
  17. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    I'd take more KJA Superweapon books or even more Traviss anti-Jedi tracts over more strange story decisions by Denning at this point.
     
  18. EECHUUTA

    EECHUUTA Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2007
    Yup, I know, I just got stuck in debate mode again. ;)
     
  19. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Glad you agree, Admiral. :D

    Really? I figure someone like Stewart would gladly accept an offer; isn't a contract with Del Rey for a SW book a guaranteed payday according to Stover?
     
  20. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Agreed, but I think one of the greatest strengths of the SW franchise is the fact that it's multimedia. Look at Revenge of the Sith, for example; the movie itself is, in my opinion, fairly mediocre. Add the comic and video game to it, however, and you get a stellar complete package. Not including the comic in that because it was fairly run of the mill, though.

    In my case, when I ask for a DE adaptation, I'm not looking for anyone to "fix" DE. Just add to it. Besides, DE doesn't only exist as a comic; it has a very stellar audiobook that already adds quite a bit to the story.

    On that thought, while neither medium is inherently superior to the other, I do think they do different types of stories better than the other. I think a really "big" story would ultimately work better as a novel, or a longer comic series at least.

    If the SWEU has a Frank Miller, I'd definitely say it's Troy Denning.

    Maybe Stover is Dark Knight Returns Miller and Denning is All Star Batman and Robin Miller? :p

    I think it might have been considered an unpopular opinion when it first came out. I remember glancing at the old review thread and a ton of people who dislike it... all for pretty dumb reasons, I will add.
     
  21. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yeah, if there were to be a DE adaptation, I'd use it to showcase things that weren't shown in the comics--behind the scenes, as it were.

    Basically what The Test of Wills and DESB did. :p
     
  22. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    I've been meaning to read The Test of Wills. How is it? It will be the first fanfiction I ever have read besides My Immortal 8-}

    And drawing a blank... what's DESB stand for?
     
  23. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Oh, you should read his other stuff too. It's all good--the Silver Fox series in particular is my favorite, but there are some other good short stories he's written, as well as a pretend in-universe supplement to the Imperial Sourcebook.

    DESB = Dark Empire Sourcebook = one of the greatest contributions to the EU ever and the thing that makes DE tolerable
     
    Sable_Hart, instantdeath and Esg like this.
  24. imiller

    imiller Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2004
    instantdeath: Whyso? Yes, content wise Denning is pretty gritty and over-the-top, but Stover's hypermasculine, push-through-the-absurd-injury protagonists feel much more like Miller's Batman. Denning seems a lot more like Mark Millar to me ;-) (Comic nerd rage!) Stover is ASBAR and Denning is Kick-Ass (which is not a compliment, from me).
     
  25. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Fixed [​IMG]
     
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