Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Feelicks, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. BoromirsFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2010
    star 4
    what is this? I don't even.....
  2. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Unpopular opinions?

    PT

    --Lloyd is perfectly fine until he hops into that Naboo starfighter.
    --The third act of AOTC is where the film crashes and burns, rather than turning around. The Yoda/Dooku battle does nothing for me.
    --Vader's infamous "No!" is spicing on the delectable melodrama that is ROTS.

    OT

    --Threepio and Chewbacca wear out their welcome after ANH.
    --Ewoks are the least of ROTJ's problems; my real qualms concern the character arcs of Luke, Leia and Vader.
  3. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    1. I like the Ewoks and the role they have in the story. It's all about the underdog rising to the challenge and toppling the technologically advanced (and VERY arrogant) evil Empire.
    2. I don't like Boba Fett as a character. I simply don't understand all the hype surrounding the character, especially for someone who goes out like the punk that he is.
    3. Ian McDiarmid is overrated. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the 'greatness' that everyone talks about. He's good, yes, but surely not enough to bow down and worship at his feet for his acting prowess.
    4. Star Wars is my least favorite installment of the OT.
    5. I have a soft spot for the original Special Editions from '97 and prefer this version of the films over the O-OT. I guess it has more to do with nostalgia since the Specials Editions were just being released into theaters when I became a fan ( I would love an official hi-def release of this version, especially since it's only available on VHS and I no longer own a VCR to watch them).
  4. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    :mad:

    [IMG]
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Feb 25, 2013
  5. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I like the PT
    I find Jar-Jar funny
    I don't find Jar-Jar, the gungans or the nemoides in any real racistic
  6. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    I knew that one would ruffle a few feathers. :p

    To be fair, I'm basing my opinion solely on his performance throughout the Star Wars films (his obnoxious performance during his battle with Mace and the subsequent scene of him 'knighting' Vader in ROTS really puts me off). I've never seen him in anything outside of the Saga, but I heard his theater work is quite good.
  7. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    @HanSolo29

    :p

    I'll admit, his late ROTS incarnation is my least favorite, but I love all his scenes in TPM, AOTC, most of ROTS, and ROTJ dearly.

    I mean, just watching him whispering in Padmé's ear -- it's delicious fun! Although I can see why your mileage may vary. For me, Palpatine's far and away the best villain though.
    kainee likes this.
  8. HanSolo29 Manager Emeritus + Official Star Wars Artist

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2001
    star 6
    Oh, I totally agree about him being a wonderful villain! I may even venture to stay that he tops the list for me as well. I just can't get past the whole ROTS thing and the way he almost makes a mockery of the character once he's outed as the Sith Lord. He's all serious and very into the role during the first half and then he turns into this caricature during the second act.

    That's my $.02, anyway.
    kainee and J_Girl like this.
  9. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    TPM is a fun sci-fi actioner, and it still holds up by today's standards.
  10. Han Burgundy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3
    Agreed! He's absolutely PERFECT in ROTJ, and pretty solid (and much more subtle, obiviously) in the first two prequels and even the first half of ROTS (the smile he gives Anakin after he says he can save Padme from certain death still gets to me in a good way). But from the Mace duel and on, he's obnoxious.

    The "Smeagol voice" he does when he tells Mace "no, no, YOU will die!" Still gets on my nerves.
    kainee and Valairy Scot like this.
  11. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Yeah Ian's performance gets a little silly after he becomes deformed.
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  12. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Damn straight.

    I like how unhinged it gets, myself. He becomes the perfect Saturday morning cartoon villain, the perfect serial bad guy. The only difference between him here and in ROTJ is a little extra padding, and we can begrudge him that. However, one thing this illustrates is the sheer pleasure of his more subtle and nuanced performance in the PT up to that transformation. In TPM, AOTC and half of ROTS, he's delivering an acting job of Shakesperean complexity. Then he turns into Grandpa Cobra Commander, but that's fine with me.
  13. Zane the Reaper Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 1
    lol re: "grandpa cobra commander"
    VMeran likes this.
  14. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    This. What a waste of footage.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and Yunners like this.
  15. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    I wouldn't mind seeing it reinstated as part of an extended edition, if such a thing were ever done. The lighting in the scene between the rebel senators and Palpatine, in particular, is really stunning.
  16. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    I agree with your sentiment, however...

    It's not only real, but George Lucas had it printed on a t-shirt and wore it during the filming of Episode I.

    NOTE: The attribution above is wrong. It does not derive from a 1977 "New Yorker" article, but one written in 1997:

    http://www.booknoise.net/johnseabrook/stories/culture/force/index.html

    (Which is a damn good read, actually -- particularly for the George Lucas quotes).


    His theatre work is excellent. I was sat about three feet from him in a play I saw him in in 2008. I even got the pleasure of hearing him shout, "---- .... ------- ----!" (first word beginning c, second wording beginning f, third c again).

    George Lucas agrees with you: "That smile at the end worked" (p.87, "The Making Of Star Wars Revenge Of The Sith", J.W. Rinzler, ISBN: 0091897378)

    I love the kabuki-esque intemperance of the Mace-Sidious duel (though, reading between the lines in the aforementioned "Making Of", it does seem like they struggled to film an adequate sword fight and probably tried to fudge it in editing).


    That's a good point.

    He's a bit more of a fat fool in ROTS than his lean counterpart in ROTJ, but this gives his transformation in ROTS more of an arch, operatic quality.

    Additionally, his bloated appearance suggests Anakin's real fear: Padme's "death" in "childbirth" is nothing more than Anakin stewing over the loss of his beloved's slim, meek figure, trading virginal sleekness for a Rubenesque "Madonna" quality, and the change in focus within Padme -- from maternal affection for him to their child -- that that implies. This is rather dark and twisted of Lucas, but it's consistent with a deeper Oedipal narrative he introduced with the prequel trilogy storyline (reaching a level of heightened self-awareness in AOTC: e.g., "Jocasta" and "Tyranus"; to say nothing of the entire pursuit of Padme by Anakin and the dream of his mother he has right after she spurns him).

    So, again... something that might "jar" at first, or seem a little odd, actually has an imperial function within the grander narrative itself. How appropriate for his "Imperial Majesty". This visual essaying reaches a point of sublimity when Sidious quietly kneels at the ruined corpse of Anakin (alive, but barely). The image is eerily evocative of Mary cradling the ruined body of Jesus, her son: imagery that Lucas already introduced in the previous film, offering an inversion of Michelangelo's "Pietà", with Anakin, the son, taking the mother down from the wooden torture instrument; and now, in ROTS, climaxed here, with Anakin's own maternal/paternal carer finally crouching, with a thick garment mainatining his modesty, and gently placing a hand on his mutilated apprentice's forehead (itself a rhyme with Obi-Wan tending to this character's son in the next film in the series).

    A startling implication from this is that Palpatine is both father *and* MOTHER to Anakin. His soft-spoken, honey-tipped ways, pre-transformation, keenly suggest a mothering side toward Anakin; and we continue to see that care-giving role being acted out after the transformation, however perversely. This, then, is how Palpatine ensnared as great a fly as Anakin: by correctly identifying a void and realizing it needed to be filled with BOTH roles ("I think he's a she. And I think she's a changeling" -- "In that case, be extra careful..."). PURPLE. Red and blue. "Blue, it's the boy. Red, his mother..." How ironic that the person at the very top of the Empire, the one that contrives it into being, should roam between the genders, when the Empire he creates is nothing but a rejection of the feminine: avowedly male, birthed by all-male clones, deeply distrusting of women (see Aayla Secura's graphic death), run by men, presided over by wrecked spectres of ambivalent youth (youth: a time of great change and experimentation), and given that final push all because a recalcitrant Jedi pupil was driven to apoplectic dread at losing the Sacred Feminine in his world (by devaluing and not understanding its many facets to begin with).*

    *And with that, a knock on my door: my mom. Ah!
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Feb 27, 2013
  17. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
  18. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    "An entire legion of my best troops....." The Ewoks mopped the floor with them. No wonder the Empire fell [face_laugh].
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  19. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    I would say more disappointing than awful.
  20. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    My unpopular opinion is that the Obi-Wan-Anakin duel was underwhelming. There was such a build up over the years of what it must have been like that when I finally saw it I was disappointed. I think the choreography could have been much better. The part where they are swinging on the ropes makes me cringe. The ending where Obi-Wan chops him up, just makes Anakin look stupid.
    sinkie likes this.
  21. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Part of this, I think, is due to the fact that you had such overwhelming duels throughout the rest of the Prequel's. TPM's "Duel of the Fates" gets my vote not only as the best duel of the saga, but probably the best cinematic swordfight of all time, period. In ROTS alone, there's great fencing throughout the film, not the least of which being the fight between Yoda and Palpatine that the Mustafar battle is intercut with. Between that and the cool action set-pieces throughout the Prequels, there's a lot to diminish that one fight.

    I personally wish that some of the ideas that Lucas used in the droid factory sequence in AOTC had been saved for the Mustafar battle (how cool would it have been for Anakin and Obi-Wan to have been trapped on the conveyor belts in their fight?). But It all works out. And we get some very epic, expressionistic stuff throughout the fight-- I particularly love the shots of the two of them doing force-pushes at each other, their hands looking like they should be clasping. Also, that gliding shot of Obi-Wan looking at Anakin as they ride the lava river has a very anime "friends turned enemies" feel to it.
  22. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    The "I have the high ground" bit was unintentionally hilarious for some reason too.
  23. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I think the Mustafar battle is... over the top, basically. Was there really a need for the giant lavafall, for instance?
    sinkie likes this.
  24. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    Agreed, I simply think Lucas could not come up with a plausible way to end the battle.
    sinkie likes this.
  25. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    It sounded goofy when I first heard it. I guess it still does.

    That's sorta the point, though. Obi-Wan and Anakin's dialogue, IMO, frequently has a "Monty Python"-esque absurdity to it in ROTS.

    "Did you press the stop button?"
    "No, did you?"
    "No."

    "I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire!"
    "Your new empire?"
    "Don't make me kill you..."
    "Oh, Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic(1) -- to democracy!(2)"

    (1) (Which has turned into the Empire)

    (2) (And not to the Force? "For my ally is the Force...")

    And the classic of classics:

    "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

    Oh, and let's not forget:

    "Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is EVIL!" (brilliant bargaining skills from "The Negotiator" there)

    By the time it gets to that "high ground" boast, it's like, WTH is Obi-Wan talking about?

    This is one meaning to blue dots and blue sticks waving in the dark. These guys might as well be nothing but blue slashes in the dark. They have nothing of any real value or substance to say to one another. The visual field reduces them to a single primary colour, lost in the consuming wilderness of a remote planet perpetually in the throes of its own death/rebirth -- the universe cycling on independent of their empty communication.

    "Through space the universe encompasses and swallows me up like an atom; through thought I comprehend the world" -- Blaise Pascal
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Mar 2, 2013