Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Feelicks, Feb 23, 2013.

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  1. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    I've always liked that they took two familiar things (a Queen and an election) and merged them, creating something "familiarly strange". Given that rulers always have a bunch of advisors with special expertise, I can accept Padmé's age. Could a 14-year old really do worse than many of our own presidents, senators, chancellors etc.? ;)
    Although I'm always looking at her as someone who is 16/17/18 years old in TPM. It works for me. There is nothing wrong with lovers being ten years apart.

    I mean, all these titles in Star Wars provoke the audience to make associations. The title of "Princess" gave Leia a lot more meaning, it seemed much more significant to free her in ANH as if she was just in a regular girl with some knowledge. The word "Knight" linked the Jedi to being noble and strong and loyal. The "Jedi Temple" makes them immediately seem spiritual and kind of aloof. It goes on. It's similiar with Amidala's "Queen" title.
    The only titles that are almost exclusively "funcional" in Star Wars are...Chancellor, Senators and perhaps "Rebels"....
    jbyrd1245, Gamiel, Vthuil and 2 others like this.
  2. FRAGWAGON Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah why Jedi Knights? So senselessly romantic. What is this, some Robin Hood picture from the 40s?
    Sarge, Jarren_Lee-Saber and Iron_lord like this.
  3. I Are The Internets Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    The political intrigue was actually a pretty interesting inclusion for the PT.
  4. mJedi775 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2013
    Never got the Boba Fett love. Yeah that guy was smart enough to figure out Han's trick in the asteroid field but I'd hardly rank him as best SW character ever.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  5. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    I agree with this. Having a hereditary monarch as one of the main protagonists in a story that's partially about the fall of a democracy would have been kind of silly, but at the same time there is a distinctly Romantic flavor to SW. So having a popularly-elected "Queen" was the best of both worlds, at least to Lucas.
    Samnz likes this.
  6. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Obi-Wan should have never learned the power to Force ghost.
  7. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
  8. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I don't get his point either, especially since he was the original Force Ghost.
    Last edited by Garrett Atkins, Mar 9, 2014
    TOSCHESTATION and Force Smuggler like this.
  9. James Skyrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2013
    star 1
    Did they elect a 14 year old? NO! it's ridiculous!


    Why does it rele matter its all taking place a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away... is a 14 year old Queen affecting your life ? its just a plot device needed for Anakin and padma to meet

    Sent from my Z750C using Tapatalk
  10. sharkymcshark Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2013
    star 2
    What an incredible post you've discovered
  11. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    I can't speak for @DanielUK, but one of the reasons I've always been a bit lukewarm on the Force Ghost concept is that I feel it really diminishes the impact of death. Now, it would be one thing if only the audience knew about it, but I think having Luke also know does take away a bit from some of his choices. Because Luke knows there is an afterlife. He knows for sure that death isn't 100% the end. And thus, the fear of himself dying or his friends dying is much less powerful. For me, death isn't necessarily a painful concept because of the possibility that I might cease to exist (I mean, I'll be dead, it won't matter to me). Rather, it hurts because when someone you love dies, they're gone. You will never see them again, you can't communicate with them, their absence is a hole in your life and it's something that won't heal -- you just have to live with it and the pain of loss.

    For Luke, Obi-Wan's death doesn't have any of those long-term impacts. He can still talk to Obi-Wan, sit and chat with him, even see him if he wants to. Compare that with Anakin and his mother and, for me, the emotional resonance of Anakin losing his mom is far greater.

    I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I've always found the concept of Force ghosts to be a little cheap. I did like how Lucas contrasted them with the Sith in ROTS, but, on the whole, I think they detract from the Saga as much as the add to it (perhaps even more so).
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  12. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    I used to find the concept cheap, but now I find it reassuring.

    It's the boon for the Jedi coming out of the darkness and beginning to find a truer path to the Force once again.

    I think the PT has redeemed the concept, personally.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  13. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    As @PiettsHat perfectly sums up, it's a cheap concept IMHO.

    Obi-Wan should have been like post-death Qui-Gon in the TCW - just a voice. That's it.
  14. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    I agree to a point in that I like how ROTS contrasted Force ghosts with the Sith. Palpatine's suggestion of saving Padmé and what he tells Anakin needs to be done reeks of selfishness and personal gain. Force ghosts, on the other hand, are there to help the living and provide guidance. Given that Star Wars draws from many world religions, I can see how the ghosts fit within that paradigm.

    Where I guess it's more problematic for me is that Luke himself knows about it. I think it provides a level of comfort and reassurance that characters like Anakin don't get and it does make the good Luke does a tad less meaningful, in my estimation. Or…at least, I think it diminishes the power of some of Luke's choices.

    I don't hate the concept of Force ghosts, but I find that it, ironically, "demystifies" the Force far more than something like midichlorians does. Just my opinion, though, of course.
  15. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Could all be happening in Luke's head, though, couldn't it?

    As you said in another thread, he's an exceptionally good kid, *and* he's the offspring of Anakin Skywalker -- so maybe he just has a really wild imagination?

    There is that bit in ROTS, though, as you say, with Yoda mentioning Qui-Gon having "returned from the netherworld of the Force".

    It does diminish things a bit, in a way, I suppose. I have thought about that myself before.

    Still, there is the impression given in the OT that Luke can't just summon these spirits at will. They appear under their own caprice.

    But for Jedi, yes, here's a confirmation: death isn't the end.

    Again, I find it quite reassuring. Though I hear your misgivings.
    PiettsHat likes this.
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Obi-Wan coming back from the dead to help Luke never bothered me. Felt mystical to me. Getting trained/helped by someone from beyond the grave. Similar to the Priori Incantatem (or however that is spelled) chapter in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.
  17. I Are The Internets Game Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Jabba's palace was an unnecessary inclusion.
  18. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I'm fine with your opinion, but you do realize that the concept of Force Ghosts are only limited to Jedi, right?

    Han and Leia are not Jedi.
    Last edited by Garrett Atkins, Mar 9, 2014
    TOSCHESTATION likes this.
  19. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    Well, I don't know for sure that the concept of Force ghosts is limited only to Jedi. It's likely (given that we only ever see Jedi come back), but this is never confirmed in the film. Also, wouldn't Leia be able to come back given that she's very strong in the Force?

    And that brings up a bigger point. Yoda says that we are all made of the Force, that we are not this crude matter and everyone has a connection to the Force, even those who aren't Jedi.

    What I'm saying is that the Force ghosts basically give Luke evidence that there is something after death for everyone. The Jedi may be the only ones who can come back as ghosts in particular, but this knowledge also grants him insight into the fact that his friends, even if they die, won't cease to exist. And, should he die, he knows they'll be together again someday.

    This isn't a bad concept for the Star Wars universe to have, but I think having Luke be aware of it makes the prospect of death much less daunting. The fear of death is, in large part, fear of the unknown. For human beings, it is completely uncharted territory. Luke, however, knows a lot more about what will happen after he dies in his universe than, say, you or I know about our own fates. And that must be comforting on some level -- at least, for me it would be.
  20. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, we know that the concept is limited to Jedi because they disappear before turning into ghosts, unlike non Force-users.
    Last edited by Garrett Atkins, Mar 9, 2014
  21. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    Qui-Gon didn't. And we don't see Anakin's body disappear either. He dies and then Luke lays him back down and sheds tears. Granted, he may have disappeared later (although that would be odd given that both Yoda and Obi-Wan disappear instantly), but Qui-Gon was cremated.

    So I can't say I really buy that point unfortunately.
  22. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Qui-Gon was the original. He came back so that Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin could Force-Ghost.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  23. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    A. Qui-Gon appeared in the prequels
    B. Fair point. In my perspective he did (hence Luke burning the armor), but you're entitled to your own perspective.
  24. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4

    That's true, but I don't really see how that proves that only Jedi would be able to it. I admit that this is likely the case, but I don't think there's really any evidence concretely establishing this. Plus, that still leaves Anakin dying and having his body remain (rather than disappearing instantly as Yoda and Obi-Wan do). Yet he still appears as a Force ghost.

    So, I don't know…I'm just saying that I can't rule out the possibility that non-Jedi could be Force ghosts too.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Wasn't really commenting on if non-Jedi could do it or not. Before Qui-Gon did it, no one had done it for thousands of years (I believe in the EU jsyk). Since no one had learned it in so long, Qui-Gon had to learn that from beyond and then took years to communicate with the real world. Then an additional 19 years communicating with Yoda and Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan dies, Yoda dies 4 years later, 36 years experience for QGJ, 23 for Yoda and Obi-Wan should be able to help Anakin easily. And since Anakin is the supposed 'Chosen One' might help as well. Don't know if I make sense at all or not.
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