Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

The blowing up of Alderaan was bad, but not every Imperial approved.
I wish this was in the movie but in the radio drama when Tarkin was going to blow up Alderaan
Vader said "the Emperor should be consulted"
In the Death Star book there were people who disapproved of it.

I see the Empire having some very evil people, worse than the Jedi. I hate Palpatine. I don't like Tarkin too(but he isn't as bad as the Emperor. He may have blown up a planet, but I think even he has a line he wouldn't cross that Palpatine would) and Motti and General Tagge. Tagge and Motti are arrogant. Prince Xizor is pretty bad too, but the many everyday soldiers I don't think are like that. I think the Empire is made up of people with varying morals.

The same with the rebellion. They do work with shady characters.

Yes, I am influenced by fanfiction. I don't accept all the EU and I don't accept Rebels so I can add detail to what I see and don't see in the movies.

 

There's a lot of "Honorable Imperials" and a lot of "Ruthless Rebels" in the EU - but overall, the trend seems to be that the Rebels have at least a good reason to fight "restore freedom to the galaxy" and that the Empire overall is evil (hence being called "evil Empire" in the opening crawl) even if plenty of individual Imperials aren't.

I'm not sure what EU Tarkin's "line" is - while occasionally shocked by Vader, he does some truly vile things.

 

Genndy Tartakovsky is an artist. His stuff is not for everybody.

 

I don't really think it's about 'approval'. Tarkin was desperate to maintain order.

So do Rebels. The Empire may well have 'good reason' to oppose rebellion as well.

 

Tarkin approved of the Death Star a long time ago. The minute he was on board with killing people in order to have an iron clad grip on the galaxy, he had lost his soul and his humanity. The Empire was forged on the principle that security was more important than freedom and that anyone who disagreed, needed to be made an example of to the rest of the galaxy. We saw that on Lothal in "Rebels" when the Rebel cell on that world began cause problems, Agent Kallaus began taking measures to stop it and when that was insufficient, Grand Moff Tarkin came in with Darth Vader and put the clamp down.

The Republic and subsequently the Alliance were formed on the principles that everyone had a right to their freedoms and that they had the right to choose to voice their opinions. That if the people wanted to protest, they could. They could also try to work towards a solution that didn't end in war.

 

Alright, tying into all of the above conversation - I am for the Empire

Is it like a dictatorship? Sort of, yeah, but not entirely. Only the negative aspects of the Empire are portrayed and the only planets shown with their influence happen to be either populated with Rebels or in the wrong place at the wrong time. But the point is that it maintains order and nobody is particularly oppressed unless they make it so by defying the law

Before you accuse me of only saying that and not imagining myself in that position - yes, I would accept it if it meant that peace could be achieved. Individuality lies not in one's outward expression but in the mind

 

Bold and well stated, Jon.

IL: I never denied the poor acts of Tarkin or the Empire. I simply do not scale or whitewash the other side either. Wrong is wrong.

 

Defying the law goes into dictatorship when someone speaks out against it and then is executed for simply voicing their opinion. Tell me, did the US government execute people during the civil rights movement? What about the Wall Street protests a few years ago? What about in Ferguson last year, or Los Angeles twenty three years ago? That's what happened with the Brigders on Lothal. All they did was protest against the Empire's draconian laws and were killed for it. How is that fair and balanced?

 

I use only the saga when I analyze the politics of the galaxy. Don't know anything about Rebels, but from the sound of it, I disagree with its representation of the Empire as compared to how it could be inferred from the saga

 

Indeed as do I.

 

I can't stand what I saw in Rebels.
Seriously, does the Empire care about some farm? I don't see the Empire as all schoolyard bully characters.
I can see some abusing their power, but the Empire has some sense of order.
"All trade must be regulated by the Empire" I don't think that bullying a fruit seller is Imperial law

The Empire isn't perfect and I don't know of a perfect government, some are worse than others and decent people can live under corrupt government

Not every German was a Nazi like Hitler
Not every American acts the same way our leaders do
Stalin fought against Hitler, does that make him good? I don't think so

The U.S isn't a perfect government and was NOT formed out of complete goodness
-Taking of land
-Killing Native Americans
-putting Japanese into camps in ww2 even though they were Americans

Galactic Republic
-cloning human beings to fight

Rebellion
-darker fractions are mentioned
-going by the movies we don't know why some people choose to rebel.

I want to believe decent people and vile can live under each government.
There can be decent Imperials
There can be vile Imperials, which their are
There can be decent Rebels
and vile one

The Emperor is vile and his inner circle, but that doesn't mean all are. And even vile people can do nice things.
Vader for example

Nobody is saying Tarkin is good. Destroying Alderaan was evil
,but he does have a sense of order

Yes the Empire formed from treachery. The U.S has a bad history too. The Europeans that came over didn't exactly ask nicely for all this land.


Is the Empire the best government? Nope Like in real life there are far worse governments.


I also like to think that stuff like the DS were top secret projects that not everyone in the Empire knew about. I think more and more stuff like that became public as time went on.

 

And Lucas based the Empire on Nazi Germany, the Roman Empire under Augustus Cesar, Napoleon Bonaparte's reign and Richard Nixon's tenure as President. So the analogy is sound. Also, take note that the Sith engineered the war because they wanted to rule the Republic and to get back at the Jedi for trying to eliminate them. There was peace and stability until Palpatine caused war and instability.

Why? That's what a dictatorship is. Look at North Korea. You don't dare speak ill in public about the government and it's leader.

Why? The Empire wants things done their way. And if people don't fall in line, they get punished. That has happened in human history.

I never said that the US government was always fair. But the government tends to be far more fair than a dictatorship, especially in the more civilized times.

Regardless of it being so or not, the fact is the Empire built it to rule by fear and tyranny. The US and Russian both built nuclear weapons, but outside of Japan in 1945, not a single one has been used to end a war. Nor to enforce peace. There were a couple of tense moments, but it never went past the point of no return. The Empire had created the equivalent of a thermonuclear weapon and used it willingly because the people were tired of the oppression and the bullying and wanted their freedoms back. We didn't see stuff on Lothal in the films because the war was on and we saw the Empire's endgame.

 

I can't make the difference between reality and fantasy in cases as sensitive as this; but I assume that there is no person from a country that was REALLY under dictatorship or whose citizens were REALLY subjected to ethnical cleansing, labour and concentration camps, gas buses et cetera would say that they like the Empire. One just...has to wonder where this comes from.

 

I think it's perhaps a bad idea to really compare things like this to real world politics....

So? Simply because he based it on some controversial forms of government doesn't mean that the viewer MUST see it that way. Fact is I'm CAPABLE of interpreting the Empire as not an evil means of ruling the galaxy so much as perhaps a drastic one which was necessary given the time.
If Julius Caesar had lived on, then I guarantee he would have reformed the Roman government very well. Rome too was suffering from a corrupt republic which most citizens felt worked, but truth is it's just as corrupt as SW's Republic was in the PT.

It's sort of an unwinnable situation. In order to maintain stability, you've got to stop riots. Limiting freedom just enough to do that will spur on riots. If you know the ideal political system, then tell me. Don't think one exists

 

A New Hope was boring after watching and rewatching it four or five times.

 

That wasn't the impression I got when I read Machiavelli's The Discourses. While he approved of pragmatic, strong rulers, he saw Caesar as the worst kind of tyrant.

 

Kitster is awesome. I like him, and the other ragamuffin slave kids.

In the Star Wars musical, they should sing "Hard Knock Life".

 

another unpopular opinion:

some of the practical effects/puppets used in the Mos Eisley Cantina and Jabba's palace look awful

can anyone really believe Max Rebo is supposed to be a real.....creature?

 

I find Max Rebo even more fake than TPM!Puppet Yoda...

Unpopular opinion: No matter what Carrie Fisher says, Mark Hamill is more 'dashing' than Harrison Ford. And I don't mean in a physical way, but personality wise.

 

Necessary? Necessary? The Empire was never necessary! The Republic was fine until the Sith made it screwed up in order to get the people to hand over the power to them willingly. The Senate was screwed up to be sure, but there was still peace and stability. And threatening to kill people to achieve those goals is the worst form of government ever. Now, I may not have lived in North Korea and Nazi Germany, but I know enough of history to know it wasn't all wine and roses and it was and is more preferable to live somewhere else. You may not like the idea of a democratic society, but if you really had to live in a dictatorship, you'd be singing a whole different tune.

It's sort of an unwinnable situation. In order to maintain stability, you've got to stop riots. Limiting freedom just enough to do that will spur on riots. If you know the ideal political system, then tell me. Don't think one exists[/quote]


I'd rather live in this society than one where if I fart, the government won't come to kill me and my entire family. I can take to Facebook or to this message board and say Obama is a dumbass and nothing would happen to me. I say the same thing to Kim Jong Un and you'd never hear from me again. Which do you think is more fair?

 

That really is dependent on HOW one viewed him though. Some people considered him a noble politician who lived for the people, some others saw him as a ruthless dictator. There's no way to know for certain, but I'm of the thought that he may have done well.

I'd rather live in this society than one where if I fart, the government won't come to kill me and my entire family. I can take to Facebook or to this message board and say Obama is a dumbass and nothing would happen to me. I say the same thing to Kim Jong Un and you'd never hear from me again. Which do you think is more fair?[/quote]
The whole point of the rise of the Empire is that of course the Republic was corrupt

I've never lived in a dictatorship either, nor do I want to. All I said is that if it needs to happen, it should. Speaking of Caesar/Rome, they did have a law that, in times of crisis, one could be elected dictator for 6 months.

You act as if even famously democratic countries like the United States have never limited freedom of expression like that. If one spoke out against WWI back in 1917-1918, they may not have been executed, but they sure as hell would have been stopped. The treatment of average Japanese citizens during WWII was of course deplorable and I would not approve, but from a political standpoint, completely free of the bounds of ethics/morality, it's logically sound.

Once again, I emphasize that I am not for such things. The Empire in SW is much different than a real world dictatorship.

 

Indeed. It's killed more people in one moment than any real-world one so far.

 

Just to be clear to all I pulled out real life examples to illustrate points and not say a certain government is exactly the same the Empire.

-The Nazi point was to convey that not everyone was a nazi in that country even though many were, that party was in power but didn't make all citizens that way. Not everyone is like Emperor in the Empire. It was also brought up to show that the sides that fought against the Nazis were not all pure too. Stalin vs Hitler. Both were bad. I believe there were darker fractions of the alliance like the allies that can be compared to the U.S and Soviets.

I am not saying the Empire=Nazis, no way. It's just a point to bring up for certain aspects of the conflict.
The U.S example, was brought up to show that even so-called good governments are not perfect and are corrupt.

Empire I think is more comparable to the British empire with certain changes.

And remember my views don't include all the EU. In ANH we aren't told what the conflict exactly is all about. In ROTS people were cheering, what changed.

I used some history examples cause SW reminds me of history and I thought they'd be easy to illustrate a point.
I am not the best communicator.

 

Well, let's look at it in terms of proportion

Earth is populated with a little over 7 billion people
Alderaan is close to that

The population of the Milky Way is.... Earth (at least given there's no intelligent life elsewhere, however if there are, we're not in vast contact with them like the GFFA)
The population of the GFFA is stated to be hundreds of trillions, if not over a quadrillion sapient inhabitants

 

Which was the point in showing that. Lucas wanted us to see what a tyrannical dictatorship would result in, when people don't voice their grievances. And what happened to the Japanese during WWII was never sound. It was steeped in bigotry and fear, rather than logic and compassion. And the fact of the matter is the world is as it is because people choose to fight for whatever freedoms that they can get, rather than accept everything blindly.

You think that the Empire wouldn't stop at Alderaan and Yavin 4? Palpatine and Tarkin would wipe half of Imperial space if it got them their way. And what about the Outer Rim?