Saga Unpopular Star Wars opinions!

Lol. I think the Nemodians were just like imperials in a sense. I don't know if businessmen really care about philosophical differences. Clearly, lots of people signed to join the Empire with Darth Vader being advertised and even if imperials erased data files of Jedi and Sith, wouldn't someone from a, at best, 24 year old rule still be alive to remember that? If not, did even the Nemodian even know what a Sith really was about? You raise up good questions, my friend and it's nice to have civil discussions but like I said, I think when you start an entire universe from scratch with no direct connections to our galaxy, there are some issues. But where isn't the fun in that? If everything was 100% clear and cut then we wouldn't have alot to talk about. I mean there is still debates over Obi Wan's personal POV from the OT which I think is self explanatory but people are still making talk of it. I think the Nemodians had no one to trust since I doubt the Republic looked at their organization as legitimate anymore after the Naboo fiasco. Plus, Palpatine needed them for hs own gain so he probably just used force or played on the Nemodians' natural greed. Why does Vader stay with Palpatine even though he knows he will be replaced? Hell, he even killed the last one. Why does Luke gloss over the fact that Ben just said he was A FREAKIN' JEDI KNIGHT! Why does the audience care Luke becomes this Jedi when we don't really even know anything about them except they use magic and don't believe in anger.

Glad you find some enjoyment in the ideas of the Prequels. I don't think any of the films are perfect. All have issues whether technically or story wise. But thats what makes it so intriguing that we can discuss our own thoughts on the forum.

 

That's not true at all. He went to Carrie Fisher and Frank Darabont with the TPM script, both of whom told him it was good. He tried to get Kasdan on board but he wouldn't. He had Jonathan Hales co-write AOTC and had the ROTS get a script polishing.

Hell, it's even come out in recent days that he tried to get Ron Howard, Robert Zemeckis and Steven Spielberg to direct TPM. It's not like he said, "All of my ideas are great, let's film a first draft." The man sought help the entire way.

 

No one returned his calls

Joking, I like TPM

 

I can understand the green guys not caring about philosophical differences. That’s one thing. But why do they trust this guy? Like I said, if I were in their position, I’d be very suspicious of this Sidious guy and I certainly wouldn’t gamble my company’s future on his plans. I’d wanna know who he really was, and figure out what he was looking to gain from all this was before committing to his plan. For executives of a huge multiplanetary corporation, the green guys don’t strike me as being very smart. In fact, they strike me as being incredibly gullible and incompetent.

I must admit that it surprised me to see them in the other two prequels. At the end of THE PHANTOM MENACE, I remember thinking, “We’ll never see these guys again.” I guess I figured that the Emperor would find some sort of way to kill them in their jail cells and make it look like a suicide before they squealed on him.

Personally, I never got the impression that he NEEDED the Trade Federation’s support in order for the whole Separatist movement to work. There seem to be plenty of other multiplanetary corporations in Christopher Lee’s little band.

Well, that only becomes an issue when you account for the prequels and the Rule of Two. Just watching RETURN OF THE JEDI, it’s easy to believe that he wasn’t aware that the Emperor planned to kill him. At the very least, you can assume that he never believed the Emperor would be able to convince his own son to do it.

Does Luke really gloss over it, though? Owen casually refers to him as a “wizard”, so presumably, Luke is aware that Old Ben has some kind of special abilities. Maybe he was just thinking, “Oh, you’re a Jedi Knight? That makes sense.”

Because we like Luke and are invested in his journey. Also, he knows that his father was a Jedi. It’s clear that he holds his father in high esteem. Notice how Luke eagerly asks for more information when Owen just briefly mentions his father. Obi-Wan spent most of the entire scene in his hut telling Luke that his father was a great Jedi, and after Luke decides to become a Jedi he specifically says, “I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father.” Such a motivation is easy to understand and relate to. It’s also why the Father Vader twist works so brilliantly.

To be fair, I actually quite enjoy REVENGE OF THE SITH in isolation, when you ignore all the dropped plot threads from the previous two films, and I think it does a pretty good job of setting up the original trilogy. I liked how the Emperor manipulated Anakin, I liked the friendship between Anakin and Obi-Wan here (in stark contrast to ATTACK OF THE CLONES, where they barely seem able to tolerate each other), and I liked how it showed that the fall of the Jedi was, in part, caused by their own poor judgment. Hell, it even gives us the only two scenes where I ever believe there’s any kind of emotional connection between Anakin and Natalie Portman:



That scene even features some very good line deliveries from Hayden Christensen. I like his mix of happiness, trepidation, and fear in this scene, and how you can tell his trying his best to put on a brave face for his wife, despite his worries.



Easily the best scene between these two in the entire prequel trilogy, and neither of them says a word. The combination of the music (even if it sounds more like THE LORD OF THE RINGS than STAR WARS) and their facial expressions just say everything. It even features an actual creative, dramatic use of one of those infamous prequel window shots.

There are still some nitpicks I have, even in isolation from the other two, but they’re relatively minor. The word “youngling” annoys me and sounds idiotic. It would’ve had far more dramatic impact had they just said that Vader “killed children”. Nor do I quite understand how he plans to save his wife by murdering children. Seems like a bit of a leap to me. I also never liked the clichéd “died of a broken heart”/“lost the will to live crap”. It would’ve had far more dramatic impact had she died as a result of the injuries inflicted by Vader. I have a few other minor nitpicks based on expectations and little continuity issues (I would’ve liked to have seen Vader hunt down some of the other Jedi who survived Order 666 in between the Temple massacre and the volcano duel, since Alec Guinness did say that he “helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights”), but overall, I do think it’s a very good movie. It certainly helps that it easily has the best dramatic arc of the three prequels, and I honestly suspect that Lucas planned this one out alot more than he planned out the other two (and by that, I mean planned out back when he was making the original trilogy).

 

Ah yes. Family-friendly.



How is that more family-friendly than this (do NOT watch unless you want major GAME OF THRONES spoilers):



Oh, I guess that murdering children, strangling your present wife, fighting your former best friend to the death, and then being horribly burned alive is OK as long as you don’t see a single drop of blood.

Now I’m not suggesting that Lucas should’ve included an alcoholic dwarf who has a predilection for whores in STAR WARS (because he should’ve obviously had one in WILLOW instead). I’m just stating that George R.R. Martin is better at writing political intrigue than Lucas is. It helps that I consider Martin to be a better writer, but that aside, there’s a much greater clarity to all the scheming and plotting in GAME OF THRONES than there is in STAR WARS. And I was already a fan of the series for several years before the HBO show came along, so when I mention Varys, I’m really talking about the book version, where he’s a much more mysterious and sinister figure than he is in the show. Either Lucas should’ve dedicated more time to the political stuff or simplified it.

 

Not sure what you're trying to say here. All of Star Wars have some disturbing stuff (including genocide). They're still more family friendly than GOT, there's no argument here.

Regardless, my point was that GOT was aimed at adults and the miniseries had a lot more time to develop the story. If the prequels were done as a 3 seasons miniseries, it would've been fleshed out more (I wouldn't mind a long form version of the story, by the way). I happen to think it's already too simplified as it is.

 

I’m not sure that Jonathan Hales is quite on the same level as Lawrence Kasdan. And it’s a bit misleading to say that he tried to get Kasdan onboard. What actually happened is that he tried to get Kasdan to polish the script a week or two before principal photography started. With the original film, the drafts that people like Coppola, Milius, Spielberg, Scorsese, and De Palma critiqued bore very little resemblance to the final product. Lucas made significant story changes based on their critiques. I don’t get the impression that Kasdan could’ve convinced Lucas to make major story changes 2 weeks before he began shooting. As for Carrie Fisher, I’ve heard the rumor a million times and never seen it substantiated. At least we’ve heard Darabont and Kasdan talk about it. We have no idea what happened with Fisher there.

To be fair, my hatred for WILLOW wouldn’t have made me very eager for another Ron Howard/Lucas collaboration. Maybe Robert Zemeckis could’ve done something interesting with it.

But you’re talking about three of the biggest directors in Hollywood here. I can understand them wanting to focus on their own projects, rather than jumping into Lucas’s creative pool. But would it have been that hard to find a young, up-and-coming director with alot of talent and potential, who was eager to break into Hollywood but hadn’t caught his big break quite yet? Keep in mind that, as the prequels were being made, Sam Raimi made two SPIDER-MAN films, Peter Jackson made a three-film adaptation of THE LORD OF THE RINGS and Christopher Nolan made BATMAN BEGINS. Now, Raimi, Jackson, and Nolan weren’t exactly big Hollywood directors when they did those movies. Raimi was a cult director best-known for THE EVIL DEAD, Jackson was a promising young New Zealand director who’d gotten an Oscar nod for a low-budget movie called HEAVENLY CREATURES, and Nolan was an edgy, young indie director best-known for his Sundance sensation MEMENTO, with its mind**** chronology. Would it have been that hard to find someone like that for STAR WARS? I don’t think so.

Oh, and for the record, input doesn’t count when it consists of nothing but this bull****:

 

Meant to type “pregnant”, not “present”. Now I feel like an idiot. That said, I actually wouldn’t mind seeing a Red Wedding-like scene in SITH. Anakin lures all the Jedi to the volcano planet, prepares a nice banquet for them…and then, after they get all situated and comfortable, the stormtroopers arrive, start shooting en masse, and he also takes down a few with his lightsaber. Feels more like what imagined when Alec Guinnes talked about him hunting down and destroying the Jedi.

But my point was more that SITH never struck me as being very family-friendly. It doesn’t have the sexual content of THRONES, but I’d argue that the violence is just as intense and horrific. It goes into some very R-rated territory, and just barely gets a PG-13 because it never shows any blood and they use lightsabers instead of real swords.

Definitely true. But even a film like THE GODFATHER has some degree of intrigue and betrayal in it without ever becoming confusing the way the prequels do.

 

Because Palpatine and Dooku kept them out of prison. Four trials and not a single conviction. Plus, the ability to force the Republic to it's knees is too tempting. And if they refuse, they're all expendable.

Dooku did tell the truth. Nute didn't know until after the fourth and final trial was over and he was finally released. Once released, Dooku told him the truth and that as part of the agreement to get the Federation's support with Nute was the assassination of Padme Amidala.

Greed and fear were the order of the day.

He needs the Federation's resources and contacts, as well as putting a face to the enemy in the form of the man responsible for the Naboo invasion. It creates sympathy for the Confederacy and hostility for the Republic.

 

I still wouldn’t trust the Emperor. I’d squeal on the Emperor and get myself into the STAR WARS equivalent of Witness Protection or something. Presumably, they don’t know he’s the Chancellor or else that would’ve been the first thing out of their mouths once they were arrested.

I don’t recall this ever being stated onscreen. Did Lucas do a Special Edition of the prequels or something? In fact, if Lee is telling the truth, that makes it even more confusing and nonsensical.

GREEN TRADE ALIEN: We were obeying the orders of this mysterious hooded Sith Lord who called himself Darth Sidious. We never bothered to ask him for his real name or anything, though. We never even asked to see his face. We just obeyed the orders of this shady guy we knew nothing about.
CHRISTOPHER LEE: That sounds like the worst business decision I’ve ever heard of! Why are you crawling to me, begging for my help?
GREEN TRADE ALIEN: It turned out Sidious was playing us for suckers. His entire plan ended with all of us going to prison. We still have no idea who he is.
CHRISTOPHER LEE: What a shock. Do you still have that droid army?
GREEN TRADE ALIEN: We could reactivate it if…
CHRISTOPHER LEE: Grant me the use of your army, and I will help you in whatever way I can.
GREEN TRADE ALIEN: Make sure that we don’t go back to prison and make sure to protect us from Sidious.
CHRISTOPHER LEE: Done. By the way, I’m actually working for Sidious.
GREEN TRADE ALIEN: OK. Even though he screwed us over once, I’m sure he won’t do it again.

There is a difference between greed and incompetence. The idea that these idiots somehow are in charge of this multiplanetary corporation is frankly mind-boggling. The fact that they didn’t run the Trade Federation into bankruptcy within 3 days

I understand that they’re supposed to be greedy. My problem with these idiots is that they’re incompetent at being greedy, sociopathic corporate executives.

So he’s gonna create sympathy for the Separatists by making them look evil? I don’t get it. I refuse to believe that the Emperor is that stupid.

 

Of course they didn't know. Only Dooku and Maul knew who Darth Sidious was. Nute is too scared to say no and too greedy to not say yes.

It was confirmed in the ROTS novelization and in TCW that Dooku told the truth.

OBI-WAN: "You are Tyranus?"

DOOKU: "I told you everything you needed to know on Geonosis, long ago."

They're capable businessmen, but they're not military proficient. That's why Palpatine took control of them and used Dooku as his mouthpiece.

No, by making the Republic look corrupt and ineffective. That is why Palpatine bogged down the Senate in procedure and manufactured a political scandal around Valorum, thus resulting in a vote of No Confidence in Valorum and his own election to the office of Supreme Chancellor. That is why he and Dooku made sure that the Federation was never convicted for their crimes, so that it would look like the Senate and the judicial system was corrupt. Then he had Dooku spend a year speaking out against the Republic, while quietly building up support from ten thousand systems. Then the Senate was made to look ineffective as it couldn't vote to create a military force to defend itself and made the Chancellor look ineffective in the eyes of those systems loyal to the Confederacy. Then they made the Chancellor look bad by ordering a strike on Geonosis made up of Jedi and a hidden Clone Army, who were there to rescue a spy and thus bring an end to a secession movement that was tired of the bureaucracy and corruption in the Republic.

The Republic and the Confederacy were both painted as both heroes and villains in the eyes of the public. This is why there are heroes on both sides of the conflict and why the Force is pushed out of balance. The lines between good and evil were crossed, mixed and blurred.

 

Godfather is a family drama more so than political. And again, it aimed at adults back in the day when people were assumed to have longer attention spans. Lucas had to make a political story for kids that also wouldn't bore them to death. There're a lot of interesting details that are not very obvious at the first glance.

If you compare it to the modern blockbusters, who's handled this subject matter better? The Dark Knight trilogy? LOTR? Harry Potter?

 

Oh, THE GODFATHER is certainly more a family drama. But there’s still alot of plotting, scheming, and betrayal in there.

“Barzini will move against you first. He’ll set up a meeting with someone that you absolutely trust, guaranteeing your safety. And at that meeting, you’ll be assassinated.”

How about these scenes:









Lots of scheming, plotting, strategizing, and whatnot.

If I’m correct, I believe Lucas actually did some second unit work on THE GODFATHER, so he’s obviously familiar with it.

Of course, in a way, you yourself described the main problem with the prequel trilogy: “Lucas had to make a political story for kids that also wouldn't bore them to death.” I don’t mind the prequels being political. But trying to make a political movie for kids is a non sequitur. You’re either making a movie for kids or you’re making a political movie. You can’t have it both ways. I have nothing against children’s movies, provided that they’re actually good. In my opinion, THE WIZARD OF OZ and the best of Disney are very good films, regardless of their target demographic. But there’s a reason that most Disney animated films don’t have trade negotiations in them. Look at THE LITTLE MERMAID for example. Ursula wants to take over the underwater kingdom. She plans to use Ariel as a hostage to get King Triton to surrender control. It’s simple enough that kids are able to understand it, but without insulting the intelligence of adults. Now, I think nearly everyone will agree that Disney knows a thing or two about speaking to children. By trying to make a political drama for children, you simply fail in both regards. It’s so convoluted that most kids don’t comprehend it or even really realize that it’s there and it’s so simplistic that most adults just find it frustrating.

For the record, I like THE DARK KNIGHT and THE LORD OF THE RINGS movies alot more than I like the STAR WARS prequels. In fact, I’d say that LOTR came the closest of any film series to recreating the feeling that I got from STAR WARS and THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK back in the late 1970s and early 1980s. With LOTR, there was a genuine emotional connection with the characters that I just never got from the SW prequels. It does a great job of painting an epic canvas of a world at war and creating dozens of characters that are well-developed and engaging enough that we care about their fates. I love how the big battle sequences manage a perfect balance between action and story. The spectacle is truly awe-inspiring, but it gives us just enough characterization that we’re fully invested in the conflict. Yes, LOTR is easily the best major Hollywood trilogy I’ve seen since the original SW. Of course, LOTR also gave us a disappointing prequel trilogy, so there’s that.

 

And he’s too stupid to be running a major multiplanetary corporation. Honestly, I find the whole concept of a mystical energy field surrounding us, penetrating us, and binding the galaxy together alot more realistic than the idea that the Trade Federation board of directors didn’t fire this guy immediately after the Naboo fiasco for gross incompetence. Larry, Moe, and Curly could’ve done a better job of running the Trade Federation.

Well, then why are we arguing? My point was that the politics in the prequel films were confusing. If they weren’t overly confusing and convoluted, they wouldn’t require a 6-season TV series to explain them.

Clearly, they’re NOT capable businessman. No semi-competent businessman bases their corporate strategy around the plans of a mysterious, hooded figure whose name they don’t know and whose face they’ve never seen. Forget military strategy. This is bad business strategy. No CEO, none, would ever participate in this kind of plot. You could put the Three Stooges in charge of a major corporation and even they would know that this is a bad idea.

CURLY: Hey, Moe! Hey, Larry! I got a hologram here!
MOE: Yeah? Put it on.
(hologram fades in)
DARTH SIDIOUS: My name is Darth Sidious. I have a business plan to help you lower your tax rate.
MOE: Oh, yeah, wiseguy? Show yourself!
DARTH SIDIOUS: You don’t have to see my face. That’s not important.
MOE: And what’s up with the fake name? Tell us who you really are!
DARTH SIDIOUS: My name is not important, either. Just obey my commands!
MOE: Oh, wiseguy, eh? End this call, boys!
DARTH SIDIOUS: Wait! Don’t hang up on me! I’ll—
(hologram fades out)
MOE: What kind of schmucks does he think we are anyway?

Oh, I agree that none of this makes the Republic look any good. But again, it doesn’t make the Separatists look that good, either. “The Republic is corrupt and decadent because they failed to convict this evil corporation that unlawfully invaded a planet. The Separatists are good because they ally themselves with the very same evil corporation that unlawfully invaded a planet.” If anything, both sides look equally corrupt, which would likely result in this public reaction:

 

Like darth sinister said, the Nemodians were able to stay out of prison. Sidious broke them out, so they didn't have a reason to distrust him. As far as competence goes, Palpatine was in pretty much entire control, I'd guarantee he did things that seemed impossible for the Nemodians to see how a figure like that could get them out of prison. In terms of the Clone Wars, they were by no means generals so yes, they were competent in the war. And we'll y.no he doesnot exactly need them for the alliance, in order to instigate the war, why not use the organization that is already on the Republic's watch list. As far as ANH, I don't like Luke in the film. His intense optimism is fine but he's always so estatic to kill Imperials. I guarantee nobody took his arc that seriously in 1977. Now that we know what a Jedi is because of the prequels, I am excited for his adventures. I don't care for the generic interstellar empire/rebellion conflict because we never actually see the war. We see 2 space battles, a Hoth battle which is really more of a skirmish since the rebels offered little resistance, mostly their ships and End or is hilarious really. The dead Ewok scene is a strange tonal shift from the rest of the battle, since no rebel or rebel ally is killed, at least on front of the screen. Of course, subjective opinion fine, but I don't think Luke was likable or just as likable as a protagonist in the Avengers to me. In ESB, we see Lukes struggles and he fails, it adds realism and the frustration of a young man trying to fight the Empire. He loses of course but that's why I sympathize for him, I don't care too much in ANH because he never fails. When his uncle and an sun dies, he forgets after so it doesn't impact me for characters who were on screen for 30 minutes, if. Once again, just my two cents, I understand your point on Luke but I didn't personally feel it.

 

They were in on it. All of them were. They were all just as culpable as Nute and Rune were. Even Lott Dodd, their Senate was in on it. Besides, this is like putting Warren Buffet in charge of ISIS. Great at business, but not a military leader.

The show wasn't required for that. My point in quoting from TCW was that Dooku told Obi-wan the absolute truth. That's why Obi-wan and the Jedi Council had trouble believing Dooku's claims, because it ran counter to the Sith's method of operation of spreading lies. AOTC established that Nute would only throw his support into the Confederacy if Dooku met certain demands that he had, once of which was revenge of Padme, the person that he blamed for what happened. Not Lord Sidious.

The Federation put their support behind Sidious because he had control of the Senate and was offering to undo the Republic's new taxation laws that would end the Federation's monopoly over the trade routes to the outlying systems. They had all this power and wealth and when the Senate voted to create the new tax laws, the Federation was afraid to lose their power.

PALPATINE: "All those who have power are afraid to lose it."

Fear and greed motivated them.

Yet, human history teaches us otherwise. You've got people supporting one side of a war over another. Some of whom are people who support the other side, rather than their own. For instance, the Toydarians didn't support neither side of the conflict until Yoda and Dooku had to make a case for the Toydarians to choose a side. Meanwhile, the Wookiees long supported the Republic due to strong ties and the Quarren supported the Confederacy due to their longstanding feud with the Mon Calamari, who were still loyal to the Republic.

 

The way I see it, they already ended up in prison once because of his schemes. I certainly would be very reluctant to go along with another one of those schemes. And the way Lee says, “But he was betrayed—10 years ago—by the Dark Lord. He came to me for help. He told me everything,” certainly makes it sound like the Viceroy isn’t too happy with Sidious.

I dunno. Trusting the mysterious hooded evil hologram whose name you don’t know to direct your company’s future doesn’t exactly sound like brilliant planning to me. Note, I think their incompetence goes back as far as THE PHANTOM MENACE. I thought that they were pretty stupid to go along with his scheme in that film. To continue associating with this guy, who already betrayed you once, is just suicidal.

Simple: They know too much.

As someone who first saw the film in 1977, I had no problem relating with Luke’s desire to become a Jedi. And while it’s true that we didn’t know how they operated on a day-to-day basis, we were given enough of an idea of what they were. I certainly got enough of an idea for the film’s purposes.

OBI-WAN KENOBI: I was once a Jedi Knight the same as your father.
LUKE SKYWALKER: I wish I’d known him.
OBI-WAN KENOBI: He was the best starpilot in the galaxy…and a cunning warrior. I understand you’ve become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was good friend. Which reminds me. I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn’t allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned idealistic crusade like your father did.
LUKE SKYWALKER: What is it?
OBI-WAN KENOBI. Your father’s lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. For over 1,000 generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.
LUKE SKYWALKER: How did my father?
OBI-WAN KENOBI: A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force.

Thus, it makes sense when, after finding out about the death of his aunt and uncle, he says:

“I wanna come with you to Alderaan. There’s nothing for me here now. I wanna learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father.”

I can understand and relate to Luke’s desire to follow in his father’s footsteps. And I guarantee you that people did like and relate to Luke Skywalker back in 1977. There’s a reason the film became such a success, and there’s a reason the film still holds up to this day. As much as I’ve criticized some of Lucas’s post-1981 creative decisions, I can never take away from him that he wrote and directed one of the greatest films of all time—the original STAR WARS. Luke’s character arc has a charming simplicity to it. It’s easily understandable and relatable. He knows that there’s a war going on, and he doesn’t wanna sit on the sidelines. He wants to participate and be a part of something greater than himself. This scene alone has more emotional resonance than anything in the three prequel films:



Just through Mark Hamill’s facial expressions, the visuals, and the brilliant John Williams music, we understand everything. We understand Luke’s desire to do great things and his feeling of being trapped.

They’re a Rebellion fighting against a fascist dictatorship. That’s good enough for me. Besides, the Empire blew up an entire planet and killed millions of innocent civilians solely “to make an effective demonstration” of their “station’s destructive power”. They have to defeat the Empire “or other star systems will suffer the same fate as Alderaan”.

Besides, I’d call this a major battle (the turning point of the war, really):



Actually, one of my major prequel criticisms is that we never really see much of the Clone War. The first battle takes up the last 45 minutes of ATTACK OF THE CLONES and the final battle takes up about the first 20 minutes of REVENGE OF THE SITH, but, aside from that, the entire war is relegated to a kids’ show on Cartoon Network.

Well, I never said that RETURN OF THE JEDI was a very good movie.

EMPIRE is a better movie, but remember that EMPIRE had a built-in advantage that STAR WARS didn’t have—we already knew and liked Luke. Therefore, it was allowed to expand upon and deepen his character. STAR WARS had to introduce us to him and endear him to the audience. And we did see him mourn the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi, but, as Han Solo says, “C’mon, buddy, we’re not out of this yet.” STAR WARS introduces us to him, familiarizes us with him, and informs us of his hopes, dreams, and desires. With all that accomplished in STAR WARS, EMPIRE put him to the test.

I will say that I certainly liked Luke alot more than I liked Little Baby Annie in THE PHANTOM MENACE. There’s a hero who never fails, is pure idealized cherubic nonsense, and destroys the droid control ship only because of the interference of the screenwriter.

 

The Nemodians have close ties already, keep them as your poster boys for your rebellion and hold them on the leash. They know just as much as the Jedi know. There is a Sith Lord out there. Plenty of films become successful like the Transformers films and I know there were people who liked him, I didn't because I read through the space opera tropes that the original star wars film complies. It's a fun movie but it isn't enjoyable since it's no different from the basic hero's journey that films recycle. There are people who love Anakin because he represents the bash young man that we all were at one point, some earlier than others. His mistrust and alienation is relatable to kids in the 2000's because of a post-9/11 paranoia, and the increased materialism that teens focus on more than what is had. Anakin is a man with good intentions who's intentions are used by both sides. He is manipulated on both fronts, more from Palpatine of course, but thats what makes him likable for plenty. I never cared about Luke's journey until later, which is fine, and yes, I like the idea of him wanting to become more....which is pretty much Anakin's ambition. Young Anakin was born into slavery and has to leave his mom, which represents us leaving our parents when we never know where our destiny lies without them. We step into the unknown after our parents can't take care of us any longer and that's why that scene for me holds more weight. Young Anakin is the kid that everyone is. I know people who have kids don't hate him because he is exactly what he is....a child. As time flies by, I'm sure lots of us don't like to remember the angst, insecurity and stress of being a teenager and that's why we get mad at Anakin for not doing what we think is rash as 30-50 years old. One who is 15 and 16 growing up in the post-MySpace era can relate to Anakin's troubles. Anakin was the chosen one, sure, but Luke was being watched over by Obi wan from the beginning. I'm not here to debate. Everyone has a character or film that doesn't ignite a flame for others. I'm just saying how I feel about ANH. Padme's Ruminations for me holds more weight for me than the sunrise. To me, it's aura is half way through the film, where we finally see the last decision Anakin will make. There is a metaphorical aspect to it too, just like the ANH sunrise, except the easiest one is the sunset is the twilight of the Republic. Once night hits, Operation Knight fall begins. A more subtle one, is its two human beings looking for each other in a militarized, corrupted, and literally, industrialized world. They realization that their problems are insignificant to the buildings and speeders that fly by show a more realistic, imo, and a broader sense of how we react in our world. We all struggle but we forget that their our others who are having it worse. Of course, that may be my over analysis but it is what I bought from it. The prequels opened my eyes to enjoy Star Wars. Hell, my entire mythology class in 12th grade got bored halfway through when the plot became predictable. I'm just saying I have a slight bias against ANH in the same way you have the prequels. My post isn't right or wrong because it's how I see the art that was created for me to judge. I love all six films but I recognize the things that work and don't work, whether perceived or not.

 

The difference is that Warren Buffett probably wouldn’t be so stupid as to attempt to blackmail the federal government into lowering his tax rate by invading North Dakota.

a) Unless you watch the cartoon show, REVENGE OF THE SITH at the very least gives you the impression that Lee lied when he said that the green guys came to him begging for help after Sidious betrayed them, since they’re still talking orders from the evil hologram.

b) Yes, I know he blames Natalie Portman and not Sidious for the whole Naboo fiasco. All that does is prove that he’s an idiot. Obviously, the guy who got you involved in the whole mess is completely blameless, right?

So fear and greed turned otherwise competent businessmen into complete and total morons. And how do they know that Sidious has control of the Senate unless they know who he is? Again, before entering into a business arrangement with somebody, here’s what any quasi-competent businessman would do:

a) Figure out their real name.

b) Ask them to remove the hood so that they can see their face.

c) Do a bit of a background check on him so that you can find out whether he’s reliable and whether his claims of great power over the Senate are accurate.

d) Try to figure out what they’re looking to gain from the arrangement.

Look at this scene from THE GODFATHER for an example of what I’m talking about:



Before even entering negotiations, Vito Corleone has his associates find out about Sollozzo’s history, his prison record, his accomplishments so far, his base of operations, etc. In other words, no quasi-competent businessman would enter into a business arrangement with a phantom menace, no matter what he was offering. It really should’ve been quite obvious that he was manipulating them for his own purposes, especially since he won’t even show them his face.

Now, maybe there’s an episode of the cartoon where all this happens. I don’t know. But the film gives the implication that they just accepted the word of this evil hologram at face value without trying to find out if he was legit or not. That makes them guilty of gross incompetence. And if the board went along with this moron plan, then it really makes you wonder how this Trade Federation ever became so powerful and influential in the first place, since apparently the entire upper management of this organization doesn’t have two brain cells to rub together.

Of course, tribalism often plays a role in such things, but look at conflicts like Vietnam or Iraq. How many people said, “This isn’t any of our business. What are we doing over there? What are we really fighting for?” Often, the result of such a war isn’t that people support one side or the other, but that they just become cynical and disillusioned. Apathy is the typical response, not picking a side. Now, Lucas lived through the Vietnam era and witnessed this firsthand, so he should know this. (Technically, I lived through it too, but, since I was 6 years old when America withdrew from Vietnam, I was too young to comprehend it at the time).

And again, if you wanna make the point that “there are heroes on both sides”, show it! Don’t just give it a passing mention in the opening crawl and then relegate the actual depiction of such to a Cartoon Network show a few years later. I mean, you look at the film itself, and you’re thinking, “Wait, can evil robots really be considered ‘heroes’?”

 

But I could easily make similar claims with Luke.

Yes, Anakin is separated from his mom at a young age, and it’s clearly painful for him. Yet I’d argue that Luke taps into something far more universal. Every young person reaches a certain point where they wanna go out on their own, have their independence, and make their mark on the world. Clearly, that’s where Luke is in his life, and I think that’s far more relatable than being separated from your mom as a 9-year-old. Tell me that you never went through an idealistic phase in your youth where you wanted to change the world. That’s where Luke is, and I think nearly everyone can connect with that. Luke feels as if his aunt and uncle are holding him back, not allowing him to go out into the world and achieve his independence. How many times did you grow frustrated with your parents as a teenager, wishing you could be completely independent and not be beholden to them? And we certainly do see Luke being frustrated throughout the film. Luke is frustrated about not being able to spread his wings.

Granted, when I left for college, I felt sort of a mix of both. It was somewhat frightening going out on my own into the world without my parents there to support me, but it was also liberating and exciting to be independent for the first time in my life. Maybe it’s just dependent on your personality, but I find the desire to be independent (Luke) alot more relatable than the anxiety of leaving home for the first time (Anakin).

And it’s not as if Luke doesn’t make rash, impulsive decisions either. He clearly does…but there’s a world of difference between being young and impulsive and being a psychopathic mass murderer (Anakin and the Sand People). For example, when Luke busts into the detention center to free Princess Leia without having anything resembling an escape plan…that’s being rash and impulsive. Slaughtering an entire village is being a psycho.

Now, it’s true that STAR WARS is certainly the simplest of the sextet, but I’d argue that it also has a charm that none of the other films (even EMPIRE) has. It’s also true that the storyline is incredibly unoriginal. But Lucas was aware that he wasn’t breaking any new ground here (story-wise, at least). He was repackaging familiar themes and tropes for a new audience. STAR WARS is a glorious bender, taking several diverse elements and mixing them into something truly fresh and exciting that’s inspired generations. It’s a wonderful testament to the power of pure narrative. I recently showed the film to my 5-year-old son, and he absolutely adored it. He certainly didn’t find it boring. No convoluted political plot that falls apart under scrutiny. No trying to convince us that a mass murdering psycho is a hero. No children accidentally winning major battles. No emotionless monks preaching about the evils of emotion. Just an exhilarating adventure film set in a strange, new, exotic, and exciting world, with an easily likable and relatable set of heroes and some truly nasty villains you love to hate. Add in a dash of spirituality, a sense of tangible history, and some mythic resonance, and you have a classic. You can argue that it’s corny, you can argue that it’s simple, and you can argue that it’s escapist fluff, but you can’t deny that people have responded to this film over the course of nearly 40 years like they’ve responded to very few other films. Maybe THE WIZARD OF OZ, CASABLANCA, THE GODFATHER, THE LORD OF THE RINGS, GONE WITH THE WIND, and TITANIC (and yes, people went nuts over it at the time, before the backlash set in), have evoked this kind of response from people, but not many others. The fact that it continues to affect people this way all these years later proves that it’s a classic.

 

Agree for the most part . I feel more related to Anakin because I've felt alienation personally and know the anger behind that. You're right about personality wise it's different for others. I just don't feel connected to Luke as maybe you and others. It was hard for me to find the optimism that he has since I've never felt excepted by others. Of course, I like to think I've changed but for me, Anakin's anger will always be something that is engraved in my memory, since my depression kicked in when I was very young and has been on and off. I stand by my opinion that I'm not a fan of ANH but I know why people enjoy it. I think Anakin was impulsive but thats what makes him fascinating. His mother was murdered and its a step of what Vader did for 24 years. Massacre and genocide. Im not justifying his actions, they were completely wrong but i understand the basis of his rage. The prequels to me are avant garde, experiments in technology and ideas to expand the universe. Locations, characters, and ideas explored in the prequels make me more excited then common tropes. Of course, they're fine but I see characters more fIawed then before and more than just common archetypes. My 7 year ol
d cousin loves the prequels, including the political scenes, loves the world building, loves the twist the Clone Wars bought and finds the choreography to be unbelievable and my opinion that ROTS is a modern classic and is incredibly ambitious since I can't think of a single film like it. In the end, it's a subjective and personal taste. Glad to dicuss with you, Kuro. You bought up some interesting points.

 

Why does it always have to be OT vs PT or Anakin vs Luke or old duels vs new duels? Why am I not allowed to enjoy the entire saga as it is?

I like both Luke's and Anakin's arcs, especially since they're meant to be different and inverse of the each other. Anakin's fall from grace and subsequent redemption through his son is interesting and unique as far as modern blockbusters go. Luke's story starts as a more traditional coming of age journey but becomes something unique too, by the end of ROTJ. There're certainly better films out there in terms of acting/directing/writing, etc., but saga as a whole is surely a truly unprecendented experiment of telling one big story in six parts.

Don't know if that counts as an unpopular opinion.

 

I personally hate debates to be honest. I like both arcs overall, but I prefer Anakin's and no, I'm sure that isn't a unpopular opinion.

 

I thoroughly agree with you. I'll probably get roasted for saying this but I loved The Phantom Menace & its actually my favourite film of the entire trilogy. I loved that it was a more light hearted story compared to the other five films & I liked the fact that there technically wasn't any main character for the film & focused on everyone around. (Even though it probably leans toward the young Anakin Skywalker, in which is the way it should have) When people mention about the 'who is the main character in TPM or why wasn't there a main character?' type thing. They gotta take into account that TPM was a movie that was intentionally made that way to introduce mainly everyone that would partake or have great influences on future events. Seeing as Lucas could only do another 3 films for the PT. He tried his best to cram that main that part of that criteria into one film, which happened to be TPM. Otherwise, if he had more money or more time back in the day, he might have broken down the TPM story as 2-3 movies instead & introduced every charcater withmore depth story. Anyhow, just my opinion

 

Not sure if this is unpopular or just plain evil, but the only prequel character whom I really related to, liked, cared about and wanted to see win was the Emperor. He’s clearly the smartest and most passionate character in the prequel trilogy. He has a clear goal, which I was able to understand easily, and Ian McDiarmid gives by far the best performance in the movies. The Emperor seems to be the only character here who ever enjoys himself or even smiles. Plus, I get a kick out of seeing him manipulate people dumber than he is. He may be an evil fascist dictator, but at least he’s not boring. He’s not a weird creepy emotionless space monk. Even some of the sillier moments are forgivable just because of how much joy he gets out of being evil (“No! No! No! YOU WILL DIE!” “POWER! UNLIMITED POOOWWWWWWAAAAAAA!”) All the other characters are constantly pouting (Anakin) or boring (everyone who isn’t Anakin). A few occasionally show signs of humanity (notably Obi-Wan Kenobi in REVENGE OF THE SITH), but they’re mostly boring. Where’s Harrison Ford when you need him?