**~Unravelling The Mysteries of the Force~** True Seekers Only...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by LottDodd, Feb 27, 2003.

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  1. jag29 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 3
    Lott- I don't think it is a question of Qui-gon's faith. I thinks that anakin was conceived by the midi-chlorians.

    I'm no movie genius but I think he could have done without the midi-chlorians. He could have portrayed it some how different in measuring ones potential.
  2. jag29 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2002
    star 3
    that last post is supposed to read. He thinks that anakin was conceived by the midis.
  3. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> Does the Force have an Inherent "Light" and "Dark" Side or is that merley a Human (or Alien) Trait that has been subscribed to it??

    In his story meeting transcripts for TESB, George describes the Force in great detail. He says that every life form in the SW universe creates a Force ?energy? via the act of living, and that this energy grows and envelops the organism like an aura during its lifetime. When a life form dies, the Force that it created joins with all the other energy in the universe, thus giving rise to one giant mass of Force energy in the sky. All life, in other words, is a part of the Force because it generates the power that makes the Force live, and death in the SW universe isn?t absolute?all life continues as part of the Force. Perhaps this is what Yoda means when he says ?luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.? What?s more, George says that this giant mass of energy has a good and a bad side; when good people die they become one with the good side, while bad people become part of the dark side when they die.
  4. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> And what is the will of the Force exactly? How can an energyfield have a will?


    ? Lawrence Kasdan, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays
    />
    SW universe there is another dimension of reality?the dimension of the dead. As I said previously, the ?energy field? is made up of the Force energy that all life-forms generated during their lifetime. When each life-form died its Force energy joined with all the other Force energy to create the larger ?energy field? that Ben describes in ANH. The will of the Force, accordingly, is the combined will of all the life-forms that have died and become one with the Force. This also means that the will of the Force can be good or bad, depending on how many good and bad people have died.
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  5. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> But why do you think Lucas brought the midi-chlorians into play. I don't understand why.


    ? George Lucas, E!Online Press Conference
    />
    Gaia: The Practical Science of Planetary Medicine in which he explains more about the Endosybiotic Theory (this is relevant because the Force is based on the notion of Gaia, which is the idea that the Earth is alive and that everything that lives on the Earth is part of this larger superorganism):


    Endosymbiosis began when, sometime early in the history of life, consumers ingested other bacteria, or bacteria were invaded intracellularly by other bacteria. These events were, of course, usually fatal to the victims, but once in a while, instead of death of one or other of the pair, a truce was called and they lived together in symbiosis, each benefiting from the other?s presence. An ingested cyanobacterium, instead of dying, continued to photosynthesize and feed not only itself but the cell that had eaten it. Endosymbiosis led to the emergence in the Proterozoic of a new kind of cell, the eukaryote. Larger and more complex than a bacterial cell, eukaryotes are the cells from which all of the larger manifestations of life, animals, plants, fungi, and protoctists (unicellular organisms), have evolved.

    ? James Lovelock, Gaia: The Practical Science of Planetary Medicine
    />
    SW universe. This is important to the cosmology of SW because we know that life creates the Force. What?s more, because they were so essential in the origins of life in SW, George gave the midi-chlorians one more characteristic?they allow people to hear what the Force wants to tell them.
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  6. bad radio Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 1999
    star 4
    >>>> They are only a conduit. There is much left to the force that is not scientifically explained. How do you do the mind trick? How do you levitate items? How do you sense others emotions? etc...

    mana, to the Sioux Indians as wakonda, the Hindus as shakti, and the Christians as the power of God. Its manifestation in the psyche is termed, by the psychoanalysts, libido. And its manifestation in the cosmos is the structure and flux of the universe itself.

    The apprehension of the source of this undifferentiated yet everywhere particularized substratum of being is rendered frustrate be the very organs through which the apprehension must be accomplished. The forms of sensibility and the categories of human thought, which are themselves manifestations of this power, so confine the mind that it is normally impossible not only to see, but even conceive, beyond the colorful, fluid, infinitely various and bewildering phenomenal spectacle. The function of ritual and myth is to make possible, and then facilitate, the jump?by analogy.

    ? Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces
    What Luke is doing in the beginning of Star Wars is finding his own responsibility for his place in the world. He thinks that his responsibility is with his aunt and uncle, and to do his chores. His ultimate responsibility is much larger than that because it deals with a much larger base of humanity?larger more cosmic issues. He is unwilling to look up and see those as something that relate to him. He?s much more looking at the ground and plodding along in his everyday life. So it?s that awakening, first of all, that is the performed by the insider, the magic of Obi-Wan that sends him on the path to self-discovery.

    ? George Lucas, Laserdisc Commentary, Star Wars Trilogy Definitive Collection
    ? George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I
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    SW universe, life itself is a manifestation of the Force, and things like thoughts and feelings are also manifestations of the Force. A person who understands these things, who knows that a thought is just a form of the Force, can easily tap this component of the Force the same way he or she would tap the Force to move an object. Qui-Gon and Dar/>/>/>/>/>/>
  7. LottDodd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2002
    star 4
    Great Scholarship Bad Radio... Truly Helpful!
  8. LottDodd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2002
    star 4
    Are the Jedi (Not Force Adepts or Rogue Powers) Unified in their Interpretaition of the Force? Is their beliefs and teachings codified... or is it open to the interpretaition of the master who instructs you? What is Jedi Dogma? Are their Heresies in the Force?
  9. LottDodd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2002
    star 4
    Do Midichlorians have "Force Ghosts"?
  10. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    "The Force is an energy field, created by all living things."

    "Midichlorians are microscopic life forms that live inside our cells."


    The Force is created by every living thing. It has a Will, which is influenced by every living thing. This Will is therefore the ultimate democracy, which the Jedi use their powers to follow and carry out it's wishes.

    So midichlorians generate the Force. More of them mean that this "mystical energy field" is stronger with the individual, and therefore easier to "hear."

    However, the Force being strong with someone isn't the same as someone being strong with the Force. Midichlorians have nothing to do with being able to use or manipulate the Force, which is what gives someone strength with the Force- that's purely a result of Jedi training. However, there is a connection of sorts- Jedi only train those with a high midichlorian count, presumably becaue they will be more able to hear the Will of the Force, and to carry it out (which is the basis of the Jedi philosophy.)

    The Force is very strong with Anakin in TPM, and yet he has no strength over it. Without training, he doesn't have a natural ability to control it, despite a prodigious midichlorian count.

    "When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear it too."

    "But how will I know the good from the bad?"
    "When you are calm... passive..."


    No matter how many midichlorians someone has, if they haven't learnt to quiet their mind and listen to the Will of the Force, they won't do any good. Without a quiet mind, they won't know whether they are using the Force to carry out the Will of the Force (ie. "the light side"- using the Force to serve the Force, treating it as an ally) or using the Force for their own personal ends (ie. the Dark Side, treating the Force as a tool.)

    On the other hand, the Sith don't care about the Will of the Force, any more than the Emperor cares about the will of the people in his Empire (the "democracy" analogy returns...) To a Sith, the Force is a tool rather than an ally.

    >>>I think the midis are only a scientific reason for why certain people can use the force and others can't. It doesn't explain things like how the mind trick is done, or how to levitate objects, etc....

    I think that's entirely dependant on Jedi training- bear in mind that Anakin has no power over the Force in TPM.

    Also note that if Palpatine was born on Naboo (ie. within the Republic), wasn't detected and trained by the Jedi, and yet became more powerful than any Jedi, then a) he can't have a high midichlorian count, and therefore b) midichlorians can't be involved in using the Force.

    >>>Qui-Gon also said to Ani that without the midi-chlorians they would have no knowledge of the force. I take this to mean that the force is more related to the midis than us.

    I think it comes back to the mitochondria analogy. (Personally, I don't see a difference between mitochondria and midichlorians...) Without mitochondria, multicellular life forms simply would not exist. That means that life wouldn't have developed past the stage of amoebas- ie. no eyes, no ears, no brains- and no knowlegdge of pretty much anything.
  11. LottDodd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2002
    star 4
    There is a Mystery surrounding why Palpatine wasn't detected... exspecially if he is from Naboo or anywhere in the Republic... But I Doubt that a Low Midichlorian Count is the Cause of that.
  12. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    All we know about midichlorians is that they "speak to us, telling us of the Will of the Force."

    Why would a Sith need/want to know of the Will of the Force?
  13. byrdnest Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 11, 2001
    star 1
    is it so hard to believe that a force does exist? we only use 10% of our brains. what if the force is a way to tap into that other percent. come on, there is no spoon.
  14. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    I think the Force exists... kind of...

    The Force is Love.
  15. LottDodd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2002
    star 4
    Man, I know how often I've Levitated objects with love...
  16. SomeRandomNerd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Well, I've seen thing mysteriously rise before...

    8-}
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