Senate US Election 2012: Down the ballot

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lowbacca_1977, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    A couple points:
    1) There is no evidence that GMOs are harmful. So it's not that we "don't know definitely that they're harmful.' This isn't a "could be either one" scenario. Scientific evidence is strongly favoring one side here, and that's the GMOs don't cause harm side.
    2) The second part of your sentence is asking for evidence that it isn't harmful. That's not how evidence works. We can only show there is no evidence that something is harmful, not the other way around.
  2. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5


    Trust me, it'll be a cold day in hell when that happens. I already stated this in another thread: the status change plebiscite held down here was a political maneuver from the incumbent governor and his "pro-statehood" party. And the quotes are purely there because I sincerely believe that party has no true interest in gaining statehood for Puerto Rico; they simply dangle that pipe dream to its constituency as a way to make them hope they will better their lot in life as a Spanish-speaking state with little to no change in the way their affairs will be handled…or how they will be taxed. But I digress…

    Basically, the pro-statehooders wanted to throw that plebiscite amidst a general election in order to fulfill a major campaign promise and at the same time consolidate votes in order to be re-elected. They failed in both regards. The governor and his legislators lost their seats by a very small margin of votes and the pro-status quo opposition will probably not feel compelled to carry that vote to Congress for several reasons. One is that that plebiscite has no backing from Obama or - more importantly - a Republican controlled Congress that has zero interest in seeing Puerto Rico become one if not the poorest state of the Union while at the same time adding about six or more new Democratic Party affiliated voting members to Congress. The other is that the pro status quo party has claimed for the better part of the year that the plebiscite did not consider the current colonial status quo (aka, the Commonwealth) as one of the alternatives in that plebiscite. Therefore they can rightly claim that the process did not represent a large number of the voting population even if the numbers say otherwise. So regardless of my feelings on the matter, that plebiscite is so much empty air and just another cause of strife between the local major parties for the next 4 years.
  3. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Isn't that just what politicians do everywhere?


    Hmm, makes you wonder how the expansion of 13 states into 50 came about.
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, Nov 7, 2012
  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Romney and the Republicans supported Puerto Rico's statehood... Romney even considered the pro-statehood Governor of PR (who narrowly lost) to be his running mate.

    The GOP may flip-flop, but they are supportive of it as of now.
  5. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    I played golf with a friend this morning, who still has a job because prop 30 passed. Yay!
  6. DarthTunick SfC Commish on an "All-Star" break

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    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    I'm really annoyed about 30 & measure B passing. Why do people think this state government can competently handle the expected new tax windfall, especially since it's not 100% certain that the money will actually be spent on education? And I've said enough on B, just surprised that 50%+ of people here in the county felt that condoms in porn was such a greatly needed thing.
  7. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    they've probably decided puerto rico statehood is inevitable and that obstructing statehood would look awful for them
    Summer Dreamer and MASTERPRENN like this.
  8. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    The rumor about our idiot governor having Vice Presidential ambitions is nothing new and who knows if he'll ever pursue them, being such an admired and forward thinking Rep as he'd like to think he is.

    Supporting statehood is the only thing presidents or presidential candidates past and present have ever done. They know fully well it's not up to them to make it happen and there's little they can truly do about it if they truly wanted it. The power to make Puerto Rico a state resides solely in Congress. And again, there is no desire to make PR a state in a Republican Controlled Congress, or even a Democratic one.

    Let's be honest here, there's another reason why it won't ever happen: Congress does not want a Hispanic/Latino/whatever-you-want-to-call-it state. If the words "racism" or "prejudice" need to be thrown here, so be it.
    Last edited by Darth_Invidious, Nov 7, 2012
  9. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Actually now they do.

    And New Mexico is already majority-Hispanic, and many states (like Texas) are already minority-majority.
  10. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    In Illinois, voters rejected a proposal requiring a two-thirds legislative majority to increase pension benefits for public employees. That was seen as both a labor victory and defeat for fiscal conservatives.

    Unfunded state pension liabilities have to be tackled, but this clearly was not the way to go about it.
  11. Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I am watching the California propositions as well. It seems 38 failed and 30 passed. I hope the schools get the funding they desperately need.

    I voted to get rid of the death penalty. Having the death penalty doesn't stop crime, but does make it easier for an innocent person to be put to death for a crime he/she didn't commit.

    Voted to relax the 3 strikes law. Can't send people to prison for life for stealing a bicycle. I haven't heard about the others. I hope 37 doesn't pass. GMO foods have been around for a long time. The pro-37 commercial was very phony--showed a truck spraying pesticide on the crops. That's not how genetic engineering works, folks. Total scare tactic.
  12. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    The difference is that PR is SOLELY minority. There are North Americans and other foreign nationals living here, but they represent nearly an extremely low percentage of a mostly latin, non-bilingual population.

    Maybe politicos being what they are -- and more concious of the power Latin vote now carries stateside -- may eventually actually consider pushing for Puertorrican statehood, but I still see that as something very unlikely to happen any time soon.
  13. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    We'll see... I say by 2020... but only time will tell :)
  14. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    I think most people here would **** a brick if that were to happen so soon. But the thing is, people down here have to decide. Congress may still ask for a super majority of voters (that may be either 75% or more) would have to vote in favor of statehood in order to even consider the petition, or so I've heard. And as far as I can recall, the votes for statehood in the six plebiscites held down here in the last 50+ years have never reached a number close to 50%. The island is and has always been evenly split between pro-statehooders and pro-status quo.
  15. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5

    Eh, because the only reason it passed was because people want to keep education funded, and if for some reason it gets spent on something else there'll be hell to pay?
  16. DarthTunick SfC Commish on an "All-Star" break

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    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Precisely. That, and the governor/much the state government are dishonest hacks, because they are terrible at managing money. It will not surprise me at all that in the next 1-3 years, that Jerry Brown will push for another tax hike.
  17. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Please give us your proposed California budget, Tunick, without Prop. 30 revenues and without cutting education.
    MrZAP likes this.
  18. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6
    tax condoms, porn and weed 80%
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Nov 7, 2012
  19. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    I'd say this is one of the big issues that needs to get addressed: College vs prisons
    there really needs to be work done to balance this out, but this is where it all goes haywire. We've been in this problem for a decade, and a huge part of it has been that last I had checked the math on it, spending per person, adjusted for inflation, has gone up, as have revenues, but spending has been outpacing revenues for some time now. A huge part of this is a broken prison system. California is roughly towards the higher end of how much we're paying per prisoner, and also has a fairly high number in prison. Both of these things need some reform. Mother Jones also had a good article recently about how some of the other elements in prison running are not only extremely questionable in the justification for it (mainly solitary confinement) but also noted that makes it much more costly. The California legislature has been doing a very good job to bankrupt California for over a decade now, and the education system has been what has suffered most (close follow up would be transportation system).
  20. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    We just tried to pass a very, very moderate reform for the Western world, and "victims' rights" and law enforcement groups managed to get it struck down. There is so much to reform about our prison and legal systems, which I consider primarily a moral issue (though I guess bringing up money might sway some sociopaths), but it's not going to happen any time soon.
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  21. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    It's a combination, for me. Something like prop 34 was, I think, a moral issue. But to add on how much it costs to do all that does sway some people, too. A lot of the prison reforms have issues that are both fiscally sound and morally justifiable. But, Californian voters are way more conservative than most people realize. The ridiculous way that sex offenders are addresses has always been a good example of that. I have a special loathing for the Runners for this.
    MrZAP likes this.
  22. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    lol. That would about cover it. lol
  23. DarthTunick SfC Commish on an "All-Star" break

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    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10

    A few things (off the top of my head):

    -Reduce legislature salaries across the board to a five figure amount, perhaps somewhere around $40,000-$60,000.

    -Eliminate all of those boards (because members collect salary from that) that meet for what, one day a month, and do what exactly?

    -Get rid of/re-route the funding (which would be difficult to do) from the proposed high speed rail.

    -Massively reform the spending done in the penal system, including some (not all) forms of payment to prison officers, officials, etc. If other states can spend way less than California (such as Texas & Florida I believe) per prisoner than we do, then why can't it not be done here?

    -Legalize & tax the sale/distribution of marijuana.
  24. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    California wont change as long as there remains one party dominance in the legislature.
  25. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    California isn't like, 20 bucks over budget. Legislature pay cuts really don't make for budget fixes, they're just popular. California is in a hole way deeper than legislature pay would effect.
    MrZAP and MASTERPRENN like this.