US Immigration

Today in the United States we have millions of undocumented illegal aliens living and working here. The question is, what should we do with them?


I myself am not quite sure, but I know that we should not grant them full citizenship, which I feel is very likely to happen because a politician would do it for his own personal benifit because if he did so he would gain almost unilateral support from a growning hispanic minority. He would not do it because that is what is best for the country.

I think that 80% of the world's population want to come here, it is impossible for them to all come, and if they did, it would ruin the whold purpose of them comming here in the first place.

 

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

I feel that those words are no less true today than they were in 1886, when they were first unveiled on the Statue of Liberty. We are a nation that draws its strength from millions of immigrants.

I spent 2 years as a missionary in Las Vegas, working mostly with Mexicans. Most of them came here illegally. Why? Because they believed those words. They are some of the hardest-working people I have ever known. Our country would, quite frankly, be better off with more people like them around. For the most part, they obey the laws (except immigration) and do honest work.

Yes, there are some who should not be allowed into this country, because of the dangers that they pose to others. However, that should not be an excuse to block out those people who would be a great benefit to our country.

Kimball Kinnison

 

You know, I'm tempted to say that I want to dump them all in the country they came from, but I know that that could never happen. Its a dilemma that has no real right answer.

EDIT: Spelling

 

Are they a problem? Yes. However, they do have their benefits and are essential to the survival of this country. Here's why:

They perform the jobs no one else wants to do. My gardeners are illegal aliens, yet they're some of the nicest and happiest people I've seen. They work hard, do a good job and get the minimum. There always will be people who have to do the "grunt" work. I don't see many people from Middle-America lining up to become gardeners, do you?

 

I don't see many people from Middle-America lining up to become gardeners, do you?


I would consider that a good thing-- I'm sure that your gardeners want their children to get a good education and good living.

 

Yes, but what I'm saying is that they're needed. As each generation improves upon the previous(economically) another group of people need to take up where their ancestors left off.

 

Here in Texas we have had to fight to get the US to modify their day visas so that we can get workers to work the fields. When the economy was at its highest, there was too much work and not enough workers in the farming communities along the border. So farmers had to start hiring day laborers from Mexico to do the work that he could not find legal US citizens to do.

I'm all for allowing immmigrants in, there is plenty of work.

 

Immigration has been a great asset to our country, and the ease of assimilating most Immigrants into US culture bodes well for our future.

good post, Kimball.

 

For a lot of people, this is an issue about numbers. For me, because of my experiences, it is about individuals.

I can't think of this issue without remembering Jose Antonio Garcia Villa Vicencio or Mohamet Abraham Cernas Orozco who came here to find a better life than what was in Mexico. Or Fernando Alvarado Alvarado, who is a US citizen only because his mother was able to sneak across the border shortly before he was born many years ago. Or the family of Francisco and Gina Tapias, who came here on tourist visas from Columbia because their son was in danger of being kidnapped and conscripted to fight in a terrorist guerrilla force.

Are any of these people any different from my ancestors who came here? Many of my ancestors came to America for freedom of religion, the opportunity to find a better life, or even to escape persecution. Why should we deny others the same opportunities?

Kimball Kinnison

 

I don't see many people from Middle-America lining up to become gardeners, do you?


They aren't lined up to become gardners because illegals will work for next to nothing, thus lowering the wages in that field. People who employ illegals don't have to pay minimum wage.

Personally, I think that if you employ illegals you are doing a great disservice to all the immigrants who came here legally--the right way.

 

Well, there are two issues here:

Immigration

Illegal Immigration




Let's keep them seperate.


EDIT: yes, you did, but I'm sensing that there is some genuine confusion on this subject.

Especially since, as you say, the initial post seems to conflict with the title.

 

Well, I specified illegal immigrants, which judging from the opening post, is the topic.

 

I am Legal, BABY!!!

 

Shame on you for being so off-topic

 

For on-topic, all I have to say is: Don't be racist punks, a lot of Immigrants are not just hard working people who will work any mininum wage job, but are very good and smart people! A lot are better than Americans themselves in terms of Intellectual and Good morals. They Never get a chance to prove their worth cuz Americans don't let them, because of prejudice!

I know the History of US, and White people are too Arrogant to think they own this land (USA), but in reality it was first owned by Indian Americans, and immigrant from all over the globe come here, it's NOT just white-owned, it always has been a immigrant country!

 

Then again, I realize you are talking about ILLEGAL Immigration, not Immigration as a whole!

Well, first of all, I don't know how strict the Current Law is, but this is how *I* feel the law should be, not too strict yet tough enough I think!

1. Any criminals committed Murders in their home country MUST NOT immigrate!

2. Any criminals commmitted lesser offense (Steal) could enter US, but they need to serve jail time in their home country, plus 5 extra years (To make sure they are not being bad again so soon) after released from prison.

3. Good people, SHOUlD ALL BE Allowed to Immigrate. I don't see what the hell the problem is preventing good people come in

4. US Green Card - Good people stayed in America and wants to work some money, enjoy some siteseeing in the span of many years.

5. US Citizen - All of #4 & Speak fluent English, and I feel that those getting US citizenship, should have lived in US long enough to appreciate the place (may find it better than their home land). Plus the will of support this country and do not hate this country.

 

I say send 'em to their homelands. They're NOT as important enough to stay here. Gardeners? WTF? Can't people do their own gardening? Unless you're talking about 30 acres worth of gardening. That's just being lazy. Yeah, they do jobs that no one wants. Hey, here's an idea, how about giving homeless people those jobs? D'oh! Couldn't have that that'd be too just and right. Instead some illegal schmuck comes along who can't even SPEAK english let alone understand it. Give me a break. These people are NOT vital to America's survival. Despite what people would like to think, they're not.

And I can't believe some people would even want to give these people amnesty. Would you really give amnesty to a child molestor? Or a murderer? These people broke the law. It's time they paid for it. I say send 'em the hell home with a little threat "Next time you come back, you're going to get bullets for breakfast." then again that'd be too cruel so we probably won't do it. Nice or not, these people are a drain on our resources. Something we don't need considering how much most corporations drain.


For on-topic, all I have to say is: Don't be racist punks, a lot of Immigrants are not just hard working people who will work any mininum wage job, but are very good and smart people! A lot are better than Americans themselves in terms of Intellectual and Good morals. They Never get a chance to prove their worth cuz Americans don't let them, because of prejudice!


Hmm....you might have a point. You miss-spelled 'cause'. Morals? HA! Yeah, right, the only reason why they have good 'morals' is because they're afraid of being sent home. And if you call me a racist. Well I'm not going to respond to that kind of name-calling, politely.

 

First of all, I am not a "racist punk" because I am against illegal immigration. I realize that you didn't catch that point the first time around. I have no problem with people who work their butts off to come the the US or those who come here as refugees. I do have a problem with people who come here illegally to suck off the government teat. I do have a problem with people who have no intention of becoming a US citizen or have to loyalty to the US sucking up my tax dollars. I'm pretty liberal in the sense that I don't mind paying services such as free health care for legally residing aliens and US citizens, but I am very conservative when my tax dollars are being spent on people who have no legal right to be here.


I'll address your ideas about legal immigration here:


1. Any criminals committed Murders in their home country MUST NOT immigrate!


No arguement from me.


2. Any criminals commmitted lesser offense (Steal) could enter US, but they need to serve jail time in their home country, plus 5 extra years (To make sure they are not being bad again so soon) after released from prison.


Ditto.



3. Good people, SHOUlD ALL BE Allowed to Immigrate. I don't see what the hell the problem is preventing good people come in


Disagree. No country has open boarders and neither should the US. For example, if I want to work in Japan, I must a) have a Bachelor's Degree and b) have a sponsership from an employer. How is that for a tough policy?


4. US Green Card - Good people stayed in America and wants to work some money, enjoy some siteseeing in the span of many years.


Huh? How about Green Card= people who want to live in American and become US citizens?


5. US Citizen - All of #4 & Speak fluent English


Well, good luck there. Since English isn't the "official" language, no one can mandate that anyone be a fluent English speaker. Although it would be nice.

 

While many an arguement for immigrations is "but America was built on immigration", I however, believe that limited immigration, and increased deportation of illegals is in the best interests of America's legal citizens.

Sure you can argue that they do menial jobs for lesser pay, that they fill some kind of niche, or that they are "happy" people, "good people" that only wants what's best for themselves and their families, but you don't know that for certain. These illegal people could be living in homes meant for only a few, making squalid conditions for themselves, increasing the population which increases resource consumption etc. etc. Generally making life increasingly miserable for those of us who are legal.

I don't really care for them, they are illegal, they should not be here. It does not matter whether they are good, bad, whether they make their surrounding conditions good or bad (as in most cases, they do make things worse, however). The fact is, they are illegal, and America has other problems it would rather deal with.

Making all of the illegal immigrants legal is just going to increase the population, and those "independant contractors" will just find more illegal immigrants ti supplant those who became legal. Politics at its finest.

Ciou-See the Sig

 

I guess I should have been more specific, but I was talking about illegal immigrants. The current legal immigration laws are a somewhat different matter.

A few months ago I took a trip to NYC, and to go to the Statue of Liberty we also went to Elis Island. I disliked to PC hyphenated American crap they sold in the gift shops, but I thought that that place was a place that we have no more. There people would arrive by the millions to come to this country, but they had to go there first. There they check for TB and various other things, and if you had it you could not enter the country, and you would be shipped back. However today we have no such system. What we have is a border where millions cross without us having any idea who they are and what they are comming here for. The border is a dangerous place for those trying to cross simply because they have little food or water. The boarder guard catches some, but they just simply release them on the other side so they can try again.

Someone already mentioned Japan, and it is very hard to immigrate there. Why no outcry against them? The US must be able to have a closed border, simply because there are far too many people in the world who would love to come here. The Mexicans are just lucky enough to be next door so they can hope the fence much easier than those who have to cross oceans. The irony is that Mexico has an illegal immigration problem in the southern part of that country were people from Guatamala I belive want to come to Mexicio.

I don't blame Mexicans for wanting to come here, or even the Mexican government that beneifts greatly by the money sent from America and the release valve it creates by having those unhappy with the government able to leave instead of cause unrest.

However, if we granted full amnesty to all those here illegally then that would simply create a larger problem by encouraging more to come.

I agree that we need some type of program where we can have some workers come here for a short time if there is a need, but we should have a way to send them back.

 

If Illegal immigrant who ARE Good people, and wants to live in America Peacefully and respect the fellow Americans (Of the biggest diversity than ANY other country). Why not let them?

The ONLY ones that are problems are those taking America for Granted, and committs a lot of crimes after illegally gets into US.

 

The problem is we have too many good people that want to live here.

 

Do you have any data on this?

 

Kimball
"I spent 2 years as a missionary in Las Vegas, working mostly with Mexicans. Most of them came here illegally. Why? Because they believed those words. They are some of the hardest-working people I have ever known. Our country would, quite frankly, be better off with more people like them around. For the most part, they obey the laws (except immigration) and do honest work. "

Maybe it would help the discussion if you explained why they didn't legalize themselves. If they're hard-working, honest people, why do they need to be illegal? Did they pay taxes? I assume they used many government services, such as our roads, military, police, and fire protection, and possibly health care (there is an growing issue with illegals getting free health treatments), as well as benefiting from their participation in our economy.

Why wouldn't they legalize?

 

Maybe it would help the discussion if you explained why they didn't legalize themselves. If they're hard-working, honest people, why do they need to be illegal? Did they pay taxes?

The simple reason is that the US has made it too hard for them to get a visa. According to one family that I talked to, visas would have cost them the equivalent of $10,000 each. It is easier and cheaper to hire a coyote to sneak them across the border. Sure, it is easy to get tourist visas, as well as the occasional migrant workers visa, but because of the high cost and long wait lists (not to mention a certain level of corruption), many have little-to-no hope of ever even being considered for a permanent resident's visa.

I assume they used many government services, such as our roads, military, police, and fire protection, and possibly health care (there is an growing issue with illegals getting free health treatments), as well as benefiting from their participation in our economy.

First of all, many of them got legitimate jobs using fake papers (most worked in the casinos). In those jobs, they had federal and state income tax withheld just like anyone else. However, few (if any) of them will ever file a tax return. Under the current tax code, many are eligible (if they were fully legal) for large tax credits and breaks. They are paying for those services, more than they would be obligated to do so if they were legal.

As it is, a significant portion of the economy in the southwest is held up on the backs of the illegal immigrants. None of the casinos in Las Vegas would be able to function without them. These are people who gladly work 2 and sometimes 3 full-time jobs and pay taxes on their income.

They are here. They are willing to work hard. How do we benefit from closing them out?

Kimball Kinnison